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Author Topic: The VAR thread  (Read 111774 times)

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #840 on: Sun 01 Mar 2020 20:24 »
Shame VAR cannot he used to help out linemen for corners and goal kicks. Today’s league cup final a clear goal kick for villa but hussin gives a corner and city score from it. Turns out to be the wining goal.
Ruined what was a very competent performance by Lee and his team. Kept control well even when things were heating up in the second half!
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #841 on: Sun 01 Mar 2020 20:54 »
Quote from: ajb95 on Sun 01 Mar 2020 20:24
Shame VAR cannot he used to help out linemen for corners and goal kicks. Today’s league cup final a clear goal kick for villa but hussin gives a corner and city score from it. Turns out to be the wining goal.
Ruined what was a very competent performance by Lee and his team. Kept control well even when things were heating up in the second half!

I can understand their reasoning for not doing it though, because if you wait until the ball's gone in then people will get frustrated if you start back to earlier phases, and if you have to check every corner/goal-kick/throw-in/free kick decision then we'll have a lot more delays.

Perhaps in future there might be something added to allow for obvious injustices to be quickly corrected but it is a delicate balance to work out.
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #842 on: Sun 01 Mar 2020 21:16 »
Poor decision. Hussin was remarkably positive and possibly too quick. Mason's body language was 'questioning' at best, ge was not convinced but could not be 100% certain to overturn it
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #843 on: Sun 01 Mar 2020 21:58 »
Quote from: RCG on Sun 01 Mar 2020 21:16
Poor decision. Hussin was remarkably positive and possibly too quick. Mason's body language was 'questioning' at best, ge was not convinced but could not be 100% certain to overturn it

In other words, in spite of VAR being present, a wrong decision led to a goal, surely that defeats the object because VAR is supposed to ensure that, as far as decisions in football are concerned everything will be 100% correct ---or have I missed the point again?
It seems that Utopia is quite some way away yet, whether it be managers, players or officials making mistakes.
The only way to achieve this state is to have the game played and officiated by robots, take out all the human element and fans all over the world will be supremely happy.

Meanwhile, I will be thankful that Rugby League is available to watch without having any hang-ups about it being 100% correct all the time. They do miss the occasional forward pass etc. but it just does not seem to be discussed to the extent that quite a number of football incidents are.

Yes, I may be getting tedious, however, I shall never reach the heights of VAR!
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #844 on: Sun 01 Mar 2020 22:19 »
They've always been clear that VAR wouldn't ensure 100% accuracy and it's never been claimed that it would. The aim is to increase the accuracy from before.

Rugby League also uses video technology doesn't it?
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #845 on: Sun 01 Mar 2020 22:56 »
Quote from: Readingfan on Sun 01 Mar 2020 22:19
They've always been clear that VAR wouldn't ensure 100% accuracy and it's never been claimed that it would. The aim is to increase the accuracy from before.

Rugby League also uses video technology doesn't it?

Re Rugby League ---please read what I said,  I think that it was clear without further explanation.

VAR in football will never, ever be 100% accurate, however, this is what the managers, players and modern fans seem to want, to say nothing of the media desire to raise more talking points and to pull all our officials apart. Mike RIley getting all the hassle about the non-use of monitors when it was the desire of the clubs in the first place.
Has it increased accuracy from before or has it increased controversy from what it was before?
Has it enhanced the enjoyment of the game as far as the average fan is concerned?
Will it eventually lead to giving us a better game to watch or is it just a red herring?
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #846 on: Mon 02 Mar 2020 00:24 »
Quote from: Ashington46 on Sun 01 Mar 2020 17:08
Quote from: LateTackle on Sun 01 Mar 2020 16:30
It seemed a bizarre decision to me.  As long as the ball didn't touch the player sat on the ground, what was the problem?  The idea that he was obstructing the keeper's view is ludicrous, unless Warwick Davis had been in goal!  I am sure the goal would have stood but for VAR's interference.

I only saw the end as I had watched the Coventry v Sunderland game earlier.  In that one a similar situation happened in that a shot deflected off a defender and then a forward in an offside position, so was rightly disallowed.  No VAR there but somehow they got it right despite weak performances from both referee and linesman overall.  (I continue to despair at the standard in the 3rd tier.)
I also watched the Coventry game and thought it was very refreshing to see that the "it was a foul so it must be a caution" syndrome had not descended to this level of football, in spite of the commentators wanting it to be the case. I suppose that it will only be a matter of time because there are players falling around all over  the place, that really does seem to have caught on.
I do agree that the commentary of some games is abysmal.  Sky don't seem to worry at all about the quality of commentary in lower division games, the pair today were dreadful, as were the pundits.  I also agree that not every foul is a card, but it would be good to see referees at that level who know the difference.

However, that does not excuse the shocking leniency of Salisbury today.  There were some pretty poor challenges, notably from Sunderland, yet the referee seemed to have little idea what was going on.  The inconsistency to book the Coventry keeper after ignoring a more obvious example of dissent by Flanagan only seconds earlier was utterly bizarre.  This is the second top-of-the-table clash at St Andrews this week that has seen a weak, ineffective referee appointed.  At least the officials did get the offside 'goal' correct, although the linesman's part in it was verging on comical. 
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #847 on: Mon 02 Mar 2020 07:54 »
Regarding the disallowed Everton goal, it is a very difficult decision to decide whether in similar circumstances a goal should be allowed. Previously there have been discussions about was the keeper distracted, was his vision obscured, was he concerned about a possible deflection? One answer mooted was that any attacker in an offside position between the goals is automatically deemed to be interfering with play, hence offside. It removes doubt. Is this an example? That referees are instructed to deem that the player is offside if he is between the posts because he may be interfering with play regardless of whether he moves or not? Similar to an attacker accidentally handling a ball in the build up to a goal, goal is automatically wiped off. It removes the doubt element. Note that De Gea claimed that he was distracted.... who are we to say? So the decision removes the doubt element.
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #848 on: Mon 02 Mar 2020 08:59 »
Quote from: Failed Ref on Mon 02 Mar 2020 07:54
Regarding the disallowed Everton goal, it is a very difficult decision to decide whether in similar circumstances a goal should be allowed. Previously there have been discussions about was the keeper distracted, was his vision obscured, was he concerned about a possible deflection? One answer mooted was that any attacker in an offside position between the goals is automatically deemed to be interfering with play, hence offside. It removes doubt. Is this an example? That referees are instructed to deem that the player is offside if he is between the posts because he may be interfering with play regardless of whether he moves or not? Similar to an attacker accidentally handling a ball in the build up to a goal, goal is automatically wiped off. It removes the doubt element. Note that De Gea claimed that he was distracted.... who are we to say? So the decision removes the doubt element.

Strikes me that the whole direction of travel of the offside law and VAR is going towards the old "if you're offside, you're offside" interpretation that was in currency when I started watching football. It would have the merit of providing more certainty, but expect the number of goals scored (allowed) to be dramatically reduced and the return of such things as the Offside Trap.

Certainly VAR seems to exist in its current form mainly to disallow goals that would have been allowed (and maybe not particularly contentious either) 12 months ago.
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #849 on: Mon 02 Mar 2020 14:55 »
A 't-shirt line' is set to be applied to help distinguish between where the arm/hand starts and the shoulder - it seems this is basically where a short-sleeve t-shirt ends. If the ball hits above that it will not be handball, if it hits below it will be considered the arm/hand. Apparently 5 of the 11 goals disallowed because of handball in the PL this season would have countedwith this new distinction.

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #850 on: Mon 02 Mar 2020 14:58 »
Following on from Everton's disallowed 'goal', it's a shame VAR (or competent officials) weren't present for Portsmouth's second goal.

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #851 on: Mon 02 Mar 2020 15:05 »
Quote from: Failed Ref on Mon 02 Mar 2020 07:54
Regarding the disallowed Everton goal, it is a very difficult decision to decide whether in similar circumstances a goal should be allowed. Previously there have been discussions about was the keeper distracted, was his vision obscured, was he concerned about a possible deflection? One answer mooted was that any attacker in an offside position between the goals is automatically deemed to be interfering with play, hence offside. It removes doubt. Is this an example? That referees are instructed to deem that the player is offside if he is between the posts because he may be interfering with play regardless of whether he moves or not? Similar to an attacker accidentally handling a ball in the build up to a goal, goal is automatically wiped off. It removes the doubt element. Note that De Gea claimed that he was distracted.... who are we to say? So the decision removes the doubt element.

I think that DeGea was distracted by the intervention of Maguire when he tried to block the shot...not the player on the ground.
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #852 on: Mon 02 Mar 2020 15:48 »
Interesting - Mark Clattenburg says Everton’s disallowed goal should have stood , whereas Dermot Gallagher says it could have gone either way and had it been given it would have been acceptable 
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #853 on: Mon 02 Mar 2020 16:03 »
Quote from: TVOS on Mon 02 Mar 2020 14:58
Following on from Everton's disallowed 'goal', it's a shame VAR (or competent officials) weren't present for Portsmouth's second goal.



It's arguably a bigger distraction than the Everton- Man United one. I do think the Law there (rather than VAR interpretation) needs another look in that case. Maybe if an attacking player is in an offside position in the six-yard box he should be given offside, end of.
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #854 on: Mon 02 Mar 2020 16:07 »
Quote from: JohnCoyle on Mon 02 Mar 2020 16:03
Quote from: TVOS on Mon 02 Mar 2020 14:58
Following on from Everton's disallowed 'goal', it's a shame VAR (or competent officials) weren't present for Portsmouth's second goal.



It's arguably a bigger distraction than the Everton- Man United one. I do think the Law there (rather than VAR interpretation) needs another look in that case. Maybe if an attacking player is in an offside position in the six-yard box he should be given offside, end of.

I think 'arguably' is a massive understatement. I'm just surprised none of our players even questioned it, although going off some of their performances this season, maybe not!
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