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Author Topic: The VAR thread  (Read 111776 times)

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #300 on: Tue 25 Jun 2019 11:15 »
Nor me. Even with slow motion repeats I couldn't see any contact worthy of a penalty being awarded.

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #301 on: Tue 25 Jun 2019 11:42 »
One thing I have liked about VAR in this World Cup is that they have generally added on reasonable amounts of injury time (apart from Scotland v Argentina!) - 7 minutes seems to have become the norm.

Article about VAR in Premier League - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/06/24/var-premier-league-will-have-high-bar-usage-not-entail-long/

How has VAR assisted in adding on reasonable time for injuries?

What VAR has done is increase the amount of added time because of the increased amount of stoppages, due to reviews taking place. In several instances there has still been a severe shortfall, the classic one being the game you mention

When VAR was first introduced there was very little extra stoppage time added on.

If they are going to have lengthy stoppages then I at least want that to be reflected in some way in increased lengths of stoppage time, although I agree that there is still room for further improvement.

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #302 on: Tue 25 Jun 2019 14:45 »
Telegraph reports that the referee's performance on Sunday was officially regarded as 'good' -
The referee of England’s last-16 victory twice overruled VAR late on to prevent Cameroon players from abandoning the match, The Telegraph can reveal.
The Telegraph · telegraph.co.uk


Ridiculous if true!

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #303 on: Tue 25 Jun 2019 16:40 »
Nor me. Even with slow motion repeats I couldn't see any contact worthy of a penalty being awarded.

This was my honest-rose-tints-removed thought. There was some contact but it was minimal at best & I would have to say it was a very soft penalty. Consistent with other decisions in the tournament but that doesn't necessarily make it right!

Off to sulk now!
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #304 on: Tue 25 Jun 2019 17:11 »
Telegraph reports that the referee's performance on Sunday was officially regarded as 'good' - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2019/06/24/referee-england-game-twice-overruled-var-advice-prevent-cameroon/

Ridiculous if true!

She will probably be awarded the Final such is the bizarre nature of International Assessments and Appointments

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #305 on: Tue 25 Jun 2019 17:41 »
Telegraph reports that the referee's performance on Sunday was officially regarded as 'good' - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2019/06/24/referee-england-game-twice-overruled-var-advice-prevent-cameroon/

Ridiculous if true!

She will probably be awarded the Final such is the bizarre nature of International Assessments and Appointments

FIFA backing her. Mad!

Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #306 on: Tue 25 Jun 2019 17:50 »
Very difficult to officiate in the circumstances.
If she started to wade in with cards, the Cameroonian women would have definitely walked off, I was surprised that they didn't anyway.
Giving her the benefit of doubt, I believe that she assessed the situation, realised that she was dealing with players that didn't understand the VAR system and stood off to ensure that the game was completed.  They are going to be hit with sanctions anyway.
Shame that VAR didn't help her more with the elbow and spitting.  For the leg breaker at the end, she probably decided that a caution would at least complete the game without further controversy from the Cameroons.


My 'Benefit of Doubt' post wasn't far off then...
“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.”  Laurence Binyon

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #307 on: Tue 25 Jun 2019 17:55 »
Telegraph reports that the referee's performance on Sunday was officially regarded as 'good' - https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2019/06/24/referee-england-game-twice-overruled-var-advice-prevent-cameroon/

Ridiculous if true!

She will probably be awarded the Final such is the bizarre nature of International Assessments and Appointments

FIFA backing her. Mad!



If it is true that the referee overruled VAR to 'keep the peace' then that confirms what we all saw happen at the time.  It doesn't make it right and doesn't change the fact that the referee had a very poor game anyway.  Her control had long disappeared by that time and she looked like she would rather have been anywhere but on that pitch. 

I could have an iota of sympathy for FIFA here if they now apply serious sanctions to Cameroon, along the lines of banning them from the next World Cup, given the appalling behaviour of their players and coach.
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #308 on: Tue 25 Jun 2019 18:11 »
The problem is that, had we not had VAR, none of the unseemly behaviour would have happened,
The elbow early on in the match should have been seen by the AR for what it was and she should have helped the referee because it should have been a red.
The same AR did not raise her flag for offside, as instructed, in the move for the England goal, however, she raised the flag once the ball was in the net, thus bringing in a VAR judgement ---without VAR, presumably she would have flagged earlier and the goal would not have stood.
Likewise, the Cameroon goal which was disallowed by VAR was never flagged and that also would have stood.

The referee, in both cases, had to wait for the VAR judgement coming through and was then stuck with Cameroon players who just did not want to accept the ruling and the referee, not VAR, was left to explain exactly what had happened and to say that the game would continue.

I think that the VAR rulings badly affected the confidence of the onfield officials because after those incidents they missed several things including the penalty incident and the assault on Steph Houghton.

It is difficult for any of us who have not been involved in the use of VAR to say exactly how we would feel if we had been officiating in the match. We can criticise until the cows come home, however, the problems in that match were caused by the use of VAR and its quest to be 100% correct. Had things been left to the onfield officials, particularly the offside decisions, I do not think that things would have degenerated as they did.
The officials were selected because of their ability in normal circumstances and they do not become poor overnight.


















Referee's decision used to be final!
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #309 on: Tue 25 Jun 2019 18:20 »
I don't think it is a valid argument that we should blame VAR for correcting the initially incorrect offside decisions - it indicates its contribution to officiating.

Who is to say that the Cameroon players would not have reacted in a similar way if decisions had gone against them in a non-VAR game?

We should not encourage incorrect decision making for fear of how players might otherwise react.
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #310 on: Tue 25 Jun 2019 18:43 »
If half of the content in those articles is correct (and I have no reason to doubt them) FIFA have set/allowed a dangerous precedent to be set.
1. Allowing officials to "ignore" clear advice to the contrary for fear of what one team might do
2. Promoting the fact that if you do not get your own way cause a stir ( the Cameroon Hamleys appeared to have been emptied of stock with the amount of toys thrown) and
3. Saying the referee's performance was good

It devalues what has been a good natured footballing tournament
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #311 on: Tue 25 Jun 2019 18:49 »
I don't think it is a valid argument that we should blame VAR for correcting the initially incorrect offside decisions - it indicates its contribution to officiating.

Who is to say that the Cameroon players would not have reacted in a similar way if decisions had gone against them in a non-VAR game?

We should not encourage incorrect decision making for fear of how players might otherwise react.

Reading --you obviously know a lot more about VAR than I do so could you explain what would happen in this scenario.

What happens in a situation where the AR is told that the flag should not be raised, play continues and the keeper comes out to try and stop the forward but commits a foul and is given a second yellow card, because he has already been cautioned for being off his line at a penallty kick.
He is on his way off the pitch but then VAR advises that there was an offside situation in that build up and play should be restarted with a free kick to the defence. What then happens to the keeper because he has been dismissed.

Alternatively, you could have a similar situation where the keeper has stopped the attack but suffers a serious injury because the AR allowed play to go on, even though he/she thought that it could well have been offside and this is proved to be the case by VAR.
Referee's decision used to be final!
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #312 on: Tue 25 Jun 2019 19:10 »
I don't think it is a valid argument that we should blame VAR for correcting the initially incorrect offside decisions - it indicates its contribution to officiating.

Who is to say that the Cameroon players would not have reacted in a similar way if decisions had gone against them in a non-VAR game?

We should not encourage incorrect decision making for fear of how players might otherwise react.

Reading --you obviously know a lot more about VAR than I do so could you explain what would happen in this scenario.

What happens in a situation where the AR is told that the flag should not be raised, play continues and the keeper comes out to try and stop the forward but commits a foul and is given a second yellow card, because he has already been cautioned for being off his line at a penallty kick.
He is on his way off the pitch but then VAR advises that there was an offside situation in that build up and play should be restarted with a free kick to the defence. What then happens to the keeper because he has been dismissed.

Alternatively, you could have a similar situation where the keeper has stopped the attack but suffers a serious injury because the AR allowed play to go on, even though he/she thought that it could well have been offside and this is proved to be the case by VAR.

Disciplinary action relating to offences connected to the passage of play such as a yellow card for SPA or a red card for DOGSO would be rescinded if VAR examined the incident - VAR can only look at direct red cards though so in the scenario you mention presumably the second yellow card would either stand or if the assistant believed it to be offside they would advise the referee of this and the offside would be given.

It's true that there could potentially be an injury but then that's true of a wide variety of things in football. Players have picked up injuries before in training, the warm-up or a friendly match. You can never 100% avoid the possibility of it happening.

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #313 on: Tue 25 Jun 2019 19:21 »
I don't think it is a valid argument that we should blame VAR for correcting the initially incorrect offside decisions - it indicates its contribution to officiating.

Who is to say that the Cameroon players would not have reacted in a similar way if decisions had gone against them in a non-VAR game?

We should not encourage incorrect decision making for fear of how players might otherwise react.

Reading --you obviously know a lot more about VAR than I do so could you explain what would happen in this scenario.

What happens in a situation where the AR is told that the flag should not be raised, play continues and the keeper comes out to try and stop the forward but commits a foul and is given a second yellow card, because he has already been cautioned for being off his line at a penallty kick.
He is on his way off the pitch but then VAR advises that there was an offside situation in that build up and play should be restarted with a free kick to the defence. What then happens to the keeper because he has been dismissed.

Alternatively, you could have a similar situation where the keeper has stopped the attack but suffers a serious injury because the AR allowed play to go on, even though he/she thought that it could well have been offside and this is proved to be the case by VAR.

Disciplinary action relating to offences connected to the passage of play such as a yellow card for SPA or a red card for DOGSO would be rescinded if VAR examined the incident - VAR can only look at direct red cards though so in the scenario you mention presumably the second yellow card would either stand or if the assistant believed it to be offside they would advise the referee of this and the offside would be given.

It's true that there could potentially be an injury but then that's true of a wide variety of things in football. Players have picked up injuries before in training, the warm-up or a friendly match. You can never 100% avoid the possibility of it happening.

In both instances, the potential second yellow and the injury to the keeper would be avoided if the AR was allowed to flag and give what they considered to be the correct decision in both cases. It is the fact  that they are being told not to flag in order to let play continue which has led to both situations which could then be rescinded by VAR ---except that one player has been dismissed in the second yellow case and the other has been injured  when they did not need to be if the decision which was finally arrived at had been given in the first place.
It is a can of worms and  there are many other situations which could come into play and that is not even mentioning possible events off the field.

It is obvous that FIFA are willing to change TLOG to accommodate the use of VAR and it is something which we will all have to get used to.
How has the game survived so long without technology.
They will be telling me next that the Victorians weren't able to build things without technology.  ;)
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #314 on: Wed 26 Jun 2019 02:18 »
Another ridiculous handball decision in Netherlands-Japan - it's going to kill the game if you can blast the ball against a player a yard away and get a penalty
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