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Author Topic: The VAR thread  (Read 111776 times)

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #375 on: Tue 09 Jul 2019 12:07 »
Quote from: bmb on Tue 09 Jul 2019 01:43
Quote from: RCG on Mon 08 Jul 2019 19:04
But surely having a different interpretation in the PL as will be used in CL, EL, qualifiers etc puts our teams and officials at a disadvantage?
I agree that reviews need to be quicker, VAR needs to be trusted more (when you see Kuipers and Makkelie together it gels, runs smoother) but to implement a different system seems barmy to me

Part of the evolution I guess and if our less intrusive way seems to work better then perhaps it will be adopted further afield.  I think we all agree with Mike Riley regarding the handball scenario's as it's something many of us have raised concerns about.  Most players in the PL, who play in Europe regularly are already used to stricter interpretations in the CL/EL so I think they should be able to adapt. It's always been the way that HB seem harsher in mainland Europe so in many ways it is nothing new.

And let's not forget that UEFA/FIFA's interpretation was different under the wording of the previous laws of the game, certainly over the past 12 months, so the new wording has not changed that much.

FIFA often impose different directives for the World Cup. I can remember some years when they were very strict on fairly standard tackles or aerial challenges and we saw a surge in red cards. In the 2014 and 2018 World Cups they were notably lenient on cynical fouls that would have automatically produced a yellow card in most other competitions - is the Premier League (and English football in general) expected to regularly make extensive changes to all its interpretations based on the latest whim of FIFA?
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #376 on: Fri 12 Jul 2019 16:22 »
Quote from: Readingfan on Mon 08 Jul 2019 19:18
Quote from: RCG on Mon 08 Jul 2019 19:04
But surely having a different interpretation in the PL as will be used in CL, EL, qualifiers etc puts our teams and officials at a disadvantage?
I agree that reviews need to be quicker, VAR needs to be trusted more (when you see Kuipers and Makkelie together it gels, runs smoother) but to implement a different system seems barmy to me

I think there has been a difference in interpretation between the Premier League and other competitions abroad for a long time.

If you change it in the Premier League then you'd surely also have to change it in the football league (at least - and probably elsewhere in England too to avoid confusion/different standards) because Premier League teams could face those sides in domestic cup competitions.

I think it's much better for a handful of teams and a couple of referees to adjust to a stricter interpretation of handball when involved in UEFA/FIFA games maybe a dozen or so times a season rather than impose a handball interpretation on the whole of the English pyramid that most people in the country seem opposed to.

I am somewhat confused as to exactly what is happening to football in the UK. Can anyone explain which Laws of the Game we shall be using throughout all football in the UK.

Will it be FIFA Laws of the Game, FIFA Laws of the Game for matches with VAR or Premier League Laws for matches with VAR with certain exceptions?
Or will it be those listed above plus UEFA Laws for matches with VAR?

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #377 on: Fri 12 Jul 2019 16:50 »
Quote from: Ashington46 on Fri 12 Jul 2019 16:22
Quote from: Readingfan on Mon 08 Jul 2019 19:18
Quote from: RCG on Mon 08 Jul 2019 19:04
But surely having a different interpretation in the PL as will be used in CL, EL, qualifiers etc puts our teams and officials at a disadvantage?
I agree that reviews need to be quicker, VAR needs to be trusted more (when you see Kuipers and Makkelie together it gels, runs smoother) but to implement a different system seems barmy to me

I think there has been a difference in interpretation between the Premier League and other competitions abroad for a long time.

If you change it in the Premier League then you'd surely also have to change it in the football league (at least - and probably elsewhere in England too to avoid confusion/different standards) because Premier League teams could face those sides in domestic cup competitions.

I think it's much better for a handful of teams and a couple of referees to adjust to a stricter interpretation of handball when involved in UEFA/FIFA games maybe a dozen or so times a season rather than impose a handball interpretation on the whole of the English pyramid that most people in the country seem opposed to.

I am somewhat confused as to exactly what is happening to football in the UK. Can anyone explain which Laws of the Game we shall be using throughout all football in the UK.

Will it be FIFA Laws of the Game, FIFA Laws of the Game for matches with VAR or Premier League Laws for matches with VAR with certain exceptions?
Or will it be those listed above plus UEFA Laws for matches with VAR?

They will be using new LOTG with interpretations otherwise generally the same as we have seen in past few years in the UK.
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #378 on: Fri 12 Jul 2019 17:15 »
Quote from: Readingfan on Fri 12 Jul 2019 16:50
Quote from: Ashington46 on Fri 12 Jul 2019 16:22
Quote from: Readingfan on Mon 08 Jul 2019 19:18
Quote from: RCG on Mon 08 Jul 2019 19:04
But surely having a different interpretation in the PL as will be used in CL, EL, qualifiers etc puts our teams and officials at a disadvantage?
I agree that reviews need to be quicker, VAR needs to be trusted more (when you see Kuipers and Makkelie together it gels, runs smoother) but to implement a different system seems barmy to me

I think there has been a difference in interpretation between the Premier League and other competitions abroad for a long time.

If you change it in the Premier League then you'd surely also have to change it in the football league (at least - and probably elsewhere in England too to avoid confusion/different standards) because Premier League teams could face those sides in domestic cup competitions.

I think it's much better for a handful of teams and a couple of referees to adjust to a stricter interpretation of handball when involved in UEFA/FIFA games maybe a dozen or so times a season rather than impose a handball interpretation on the whole of the English pyramid that most people in the country seem opposed to.

I am somewhat confused as to exactly what is happening to football in the UK. Can anyone explain which Laws of the Game we shall be using throughout all football in the UK.

Will it be FIFA Laws of the Game, FIFA Laws of the Game for matches with VAR or Premier League Laws for matches with VAR with certain exceptions?
Or will it be those listed above plus UEFA Laws for matches with VAR?

They will be using new LOTG with interpretations otherwise generally the same as we have seen in past few years in the UK.

Reading ---many thanks for that. In other words we will be using a different interpretation of the LOTG to the rest of European and World football.
It should be interesting for all those watching the games on TV in the various foreign countries.
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #379 on: Fri 12 Jul 2019 18:14 »
Quote from: Ashington46 on Fri 12 Jul 2019 17:15
Quote from: Readingfan on Fri 12 Jul 2019 16:50
Quote from: Ashington46 on Fri 12 Jul 2019 16:22
Quote from: Readingfan on Mon 08 Jul 2019 19:18
Quote from: RCG on Mon 08 Jul 2019 19:04
But surely having a different interpretation in the PL as will be used in CL, EL, qualifiers etc puts our teams and officials at a disadvantage?
I agree that reviews need to be quicker, VAR needs to be trusted more (when you see Kuipers and Makkelie together it gels, runs smoother) but to implement a different system seems barmy to me

I think there has been a difference in interpretation between the Premier League and other competitions abroad for a long time.

If you change it in the Premier League then you'd surely also have to change it in the football league (at least - and probably elsewhere in England too to avoid confusion/different standards) because Premier League teams could face those sides in domestic cup competitions.

I think it's much better for a handful of teams and a couple of referees to adjust to a stricter interpretation of handball when involved in UEFA/FIFA games maybe a dozen or so times a season rather than impose a handball interpretation on the whole of the English pyramid that most people in the country seem opposed to.

I am somewhat confused as to exactly what is happening to football in the UK. Can anyone explain which Laws of the Game we shall be using throughout all football in the UK.

Will it be FIFA Laws of the Game, FIFA Laws of the Game for matches with VAR or Premier League Laws for matches with VAR with certain exceptions?
Or will it be those listed above plus UEFA Laws for matches with VAR?

They will be using new LOTG with interpretations otherwise generally the same as we have seen in past few years in the UK.

Reading ---many thanks for that. In other words we will be using a different interpretation of the LOTG to the rest of European and World football.
It should be interesting for all those watching the games on TV in the various foreign countries.

Yes, but I don't think that's really anything new. I've been watching football for over 20 years and there has certainly generally been a difference in interpretation between England and elsewhere in that time.
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #380 on: Fri 12 Jul 2019 19:30 »
Quote from: Readingfan on Fri 12 Jul 2019 18:14
Quote from: Ashington46 on Fri 12 Jul 2019 17:15
Quote from: Readingfan on Fri 12 Jul 2019 16:50
Quote from: Ashington46 on Fri 12 Jul 2019 16:22
Quote from: Readingfan on Mon 08 Jul 2019 19:18
Quote from: RCG on Mon 08 Jul 2019 19:04
But surely having a different interpretation in the PL as will be used in CL, EL, qualifiers etc puts our teams and officials at a disadvantage?
I agree that reviews need to be quicker, VAR needs to be trusted more (when you see Kuipers and Makkelie together it gels, runs smoother) but to implement a different system seems barmy to me

I think there has been a difference in interpretation between the Premier League and other competitions abroad for a long time.

If you change it in the Premier League then you'd surely also have to change it in the football league (at least - and probably elsewhere in England too to avoid confusion/different standards) because Premier League teams could face those sides in domestic cup competitions.

I think it's much better for a handful of teams and a couple of referees to adjust to a stricter interpretation of handball when involved in UEFA/FIFA games maybe a dozen or so times a season rather than impose a handball interpretation on the whole of the English pyramid that most people in the country seem opposed to.

I am somewhat confused as to exactly what is happening to football in the UK. Can anyone explain which Laws of the Game we shall be using throughout all football in the UK.

Will it be FIFA Laws of the Game, FIFA Laws of the Game for matches with VAR or Premier League Laws for matches with VAR with certain exceptions?
Or will it be those listed above plus UEFA Laws for matches with VAR?

They will be using new LOTG with interpretations otherwise generally the same as we have seen in past few years in the UK.

Reading ---many thanks for that. In other words we will be using a different interpretation of the LOTG to the rest of European and World football.
It should be interesting for all those watching the games on TV in the various foreign countries.

Yes, but I don't think that's really anything new. I've been watching football for over 20 years and there has certainly generally been a difference in interpretation between England and elsewhere in that time.

Haha. I've been playing, officiating and watching senior football in 16 different countries during the last 53years since I joined the RAF and I agree that there have always been different interpretations, however, none have ever been clouded with the use of VAR until now.

Wherever, I was it was what the referee said that was the important thing ---even if you didn't agree with everything, we accepted it and got on with the game.

I accept that I have seen the best days of the game and  that the authorities these days seem to be obsessed with whatever media-driven gimmick they can introduce next to see more goals scored --c'est la vie.
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #381 on: Fri 12 Jul 2019 19:46 »
Will be interesting to see if more goals are scored. Yes more penalties will be awarded but also potentially more tight offsides will be given (and has been stated there is no benefit of the doubt as these are factual decisions)
As with the Womens World Cup and most new law changes there will be a few weeks of everything being given/referred/reviewed and then it will settle
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #382 on: Fri 02 Aug 2019 04:49 »
Premier League managers 'really positive' over VAR, says Mike Riley
Premier League managers are really positive about the introduction of Video Assistant Referees (VAR) this season, according to the official in charge of its referees.
Sky Sports · skysports.com


I wonder how positive they'll be when VAR spots a VC incident say, or a SFP missed by the on field referee which then adversely affects their team, and ultimately causes them to lose the game?  :D
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #383 on: Sun 04 Aug 2019 16:02 »
Surprised Atkinson didn't allow play to continue for the De Bruyne 1 on 1 chance. It was offside in this instance but you can imagine cases across the season where the flag incorrectly goes up so I'd have thought playing on just in case would be the better approach when there's an obvious goal scoring chance (which from what I'd read was the recommended policy in the PL.)
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #384 on: Sun 04 Aug 2019 17:43 »
VAR is not being used in Bolivia but the referee decided to use it anyway.

article
article
X (formerly Twitter) · t.co
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #385 on: Sun 04 Aug 2019 21:16 »
Quote from: edy on Sun 04 Aug 2019 17:43
VAR is not being used in Bolivia but the referee decided to use it anyway.

https://t.co/LyoJCyVncZ

Love how he starts to give the TV review signal & then stops himself!  Wonder if there will be any repercussions for him from this.
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #386 on: Mon 05 Aug 2019 01:16 »
Quote from: Readingfan on Sun 04 Aug 2019 16:02
Surprised Atkinson didn't allow play to continue for the De Bruyne 1 on 1 chance. It was offside in this instance but you can imagine cases across the season where the flag incorrectly goes up so I'd have thought playing on just in case would be the better approach when there's an obvious goal scoring chance (which from what I'd read was the recommended policy in the PL.)

What is the remit to SG/FL assistants in this instance? If an assistant flagged for offside, and the players continued and scored, yet VAR sees it wasn't offside, would a goal be allowed? Or would play be "dead" the moment the flag is raised?
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #387 on: Mon 05 Aug 2019 08:00 »
Quote from: flipmode on Mon 05 Aug 2019 01:16
Quote from: Readingfan on Sun 04 Aug 2019 16:02
Surprised Atkinson didn't allow play to continue for the De Bruyne 1 on 1 chance. It was offside in this instance but you can imagine cases across the season where the flag incorrectly goes up so I'd have thought playing on just in case would be the better approach when there's an obvious goal scoring chance (which from what I'd read was the recommended policy in the PL.)

What is the remit to SG/FL assistants in this instance? If an assistant flagged for offside, and the players continued and scored, yet VAR sees it wasn't offside, would a goal be allowed? Or would play be "dead" the moment the flag is raised?

Play to the whistle, the flags are for the Referees benefit not the players.
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #388 on: Mon 05 Aug 2019 09:44 »
Quote from: QuoCob on Mon 05 Aug 2019 08:00
Quote from: flipmode on Mon 05 Aug 2019 01:16
Quote from: Readingfan on Sun 04 Aug 2019 16:02
Surprised Atkinson didn't allow play to continue for the De Bruyne 1 on 1 chance. It was offside in this instance but you can imagine cases across the season where the flag incorrectly goes up so I'd have thought playing on just in case would be the better approach when there's an obvious goal scoring chance (which from what I'd read was the recommended policy in the PL.)

What is the remit to SG/FL assistants in this instance? If an assistant flagged for offside, and the players continued and scored, yet VAR sees it wasn't offside, would a goal be allowed? Or would play be "dead" the moment the flag is raised?

Play to the whistle, the flags are for the Referees benefit not the players.

Yes, the goal would stand so long as the referee had not blown the whistle. I think we saw how it is supposed to work in the PL with the Sterling chance when he hit the post. The flag was raised for offside but Atkinson allowed the shot to be taken first (and then gave advantage anyway as Liverpool got possession of the ball.)
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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #389 on: Mon 05 Aug 2019 12:15 »
Some (low quality) audio here from Spurs V Chelsea and Palace V Grimsby last season in the videos at the bottom -
THST attends Premier League VAR session - Tottenham Hotspur Supporters' Trust
THST Board member Martin Buhagiar represented the Trust at a VAR session that detailed how the system will work in the Premier League next season. The event was hosted by Premier League...
Tottenham Hotspur Supporters' Trust · thstofficial.com


Interesting to hear Jon Moss simply telling Martin Atkinson it should be a red card and Atkinson immediately went with that.

I really think the system would work so much better if these were made public as a matter of routine (no swearing that I could hear!) I heard the rugby referee Nigel Owens saying similar recently, suggesting that the audio provides clarification as to why the decision has been made and can often reduce confusion and criticism from fans/media who are able to understand the reasoning behind the decision.
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