RateTheRef

Quote from: bmb on Sat 04 Jan 2020 20:19

Quote from: AG1983 on Sat 04 Jan 2020 18:14

I’ve been told today (second hand originally from an SG assistant) that the reason referees are not using the monitors is that if they review and don’t change their decision then they’ll have marks deducted by the observer as it’s considered that the VAR is correct. Therefore it’s easier to just accept the recommendation of VAR (don’t know how it’s judged that the original decision gets overturned anyway, presumably has less impact than sticking with your original decision when told to overturn)

The UEFA marking guidelines state:

When the referee accepts the advice from the VAR for a VAR only review (factual decision) & observer thinks the VAR decision was incorrect it is viewed as a mistake by the VAR.

C&O Mistake by referee followed by no VAR intervention - they both lose marks
C&O Mistake by referee corrected after VAR intervention - ref loses mark, VAR gets bonus
Correct call by ref followed by wrong VAR intervention (including if monitor used & ref stays with his decision & VAR intervention was wrong) - VAR loses -1
Ref incorrectly changes his original decision - Ref & VAR lose marks
C&O Mistake by ref & following VAR intervention ref stays with original decision but VAR was correct - mistake by ref, VAR bonus +1

So we have VAR officials deciding whether the referee was correct.  And we have observers also deciding if the VAR reviews are correct.  I find myself wondering why these wonderful 'observers' aren't administering the VAR themselves.

So, with Michael Oliver using the pitch side monitor this afternoon, does that make it impossible for the PL to resist? Surely if they don't use them it'll be even more of a mockery than it currently is!

Quote from: TheThingFromLewes on Sun 05 Jan 2020 17:39

Quote from: Mackem ref on Sun 05 Jan 2020 16:30

So, with Michael Oliver using the pitch side monitor this afternoon, does that make it impossible for the PL to resist? Surely if they don't use them it'll be even more of a mockery than it currently is!

I’m guessing he’s following the FA’s wishes in using the monitor. I hope that Riley was watching and absorbing!

He was right to do, took responsibility for the decision and correctly issued a red card. How refreshing for a change

I don't really get the obsession with pitchside monitors. I've no problem with them being used but equally if Oliver had just shown the red card without looking at one then I'd have been fine with that too.

It's been clarified that the directives for the FA Cup matches aren't any different from the Premier League games, as seen by VAR decisions yesterday.

Quote from: Readingfan on Sun 05 Jan 2020 19:14

I don't really get the obsession with pitchside monitors. I've no problem with them being used but equally if Oliver had just shown the red card without looking at one then I'd have been fine with that too.

It's been clarified that the directives for the FA Cup matches aren't any different from the Premier League games, as seen by VAR decisions yesterday.

But I thought one of the strong arguments for using the monitors was that it is the onfield referee who is perceived to make the final decision. There have been several comments on these threads about how Atkinson for example has looked cheesed off at having decisions overturned.  As we don't know the gist of conversations between referee and VAR, it's difficult to assess when a referee has pressed his case for a particular penalty or non-penalty for example leading to a decision not being changed.  How much pressure there is on a referee to change his decision having looked at the monitor is another matter,
but the intention I thought was for it to be seen that the referee made that final decision.

Quote from: Readingfan on Sun 05 Jan 2020 21:18

Quote from: Ref Fan on Sun 05 Jan 2020 20:58

Quote from: Readingfan on Sun 05 Jan 2020 19:14

I don't really get the obsession with pitchside monitors. I've no problem with them being used but equally if Oliver had just shown the red card without looking at one then I'd have been fine with that too.

It's been clarified that the directives for the FA Cup matches aren't any different from the Premier League games, as seen by VAR decisions yesterday.

But I thought one of the strong arguments for using the monitors was that it is the onfield referee who is perceived to make the final decision. There have been several comments on these threads about how Atkinson for example has looked cheesed off at having decisions overturned.  As we don't know the gist of conversations between referee and VAR, it's difficult to assess when a referee has pressed his case for a particular penalty or non-penalty for example leading to a decision not being changed.  How much pressure there is on a referee to change his decision having looked at the monitor is another matter,
but the intention I thought was for it to be seen that the referee made that final decision.

I think there are pros and cons either way. It just seems to me we're reaching a point where a referee would get more praise for making a wrong decision after using the monitor than they would if the right decision was made without the monitor being used which I don't think is healthy.

I think there are bigger issues to resolve with VAR than simply the use of monitors.

I think the best step would be using big screens like in rugby so the fans knew what was going on and referees could also view these without the need to run over to the monitor and be surrounded.

Sorry but I don't think it would be at all sensible for refs to view incidents on big screens with the fans. And, although I've not yet seen today's use of the monitor at Selhurst Park, my understanding is that players and officials are not permitted to go anywhere near the monitor whilst it is being viewed by the ref and security guys are on hand to ensure that this protocol is followed.