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Author Topic: Sat 14th – Mon 16th DEC 2019  (Read 3431 times)

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Comeonref

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Re: Sat 14th – Mon 16th DEC 2019
« Reply #15 on: Sun 15 Dec 2019 07:08 »
I have seen the game on MOTD. I think it’s a little bit of sour grapes by Mr Bruce. Two big decisions really. First the corner. Mr Robinson initially gave a goal kick. His Assistant has obviously had a word in the ear . Changed to a corner. It’s the correct decision. No foul there for me and his defenders should have done better at the corner. Second incident is the yellow card for Carroll. Spot on for me. Carroll is a big bloke and has caught Mee with his elbow. Mee hadn’t left the ground so Carroll was always going to contact him on his way down . I don’t think he has gone to do him. Never a red card. I seem to recall that the PL managers did the same the last couple of seasons. Have a pop at any SG2 refs who have their first couple of games in the PL. . I think he did okay and hopefully they will continue to give him and others these games. Burnley v Newcastle was always going to be a battle game for any ref. When all said and done its how the Assessor and PL view it.
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Ashington46

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Re: Sat 14th – Mon 16th DEC 2019
« Reply #16 on: Sun 15 Dec 2019 09:29 »
Quote from: Comeonref on Sun 15 Dec 2019 07:08
I have seen the game on MOTD. I think it’s a little bit of sour grapes by Mr Bruce. Two big decisions really. First the corner. Mr Robinson initially gave a goal kick. His Assistant has obviously had a word in the ear . Changed to a corner. It’s the correct decision. No foul there for me and his defenders should have done better at the corner. Second incident is the yellow card for Carroll. Spot on for me. Carroll is a big bloke and has caught Mee with his elbow. Mee hadn’t left the ground so Carroll was always going to contact him on his way down . I don’t think he has gone to do him. Never a red card. I seem to recall that the PL managers did the same the last couple of seasons. Have a pop at any SG2 refs who have their first couple of games in the PL. . I think he did okay and hopefully they will continue to give him and others these games. Burnley v Newcastle was always going to be a battle game for any ref. When all said and done its how the Assessor and PL view it.

I was at the game and I honestly don't know why both managers were complaining about the referee. He did a good job in very difficult weather conditions.
There were possibly a couple of decisions which were questionable, however, the players do not help when they are going down and rolling around when they just feel the slightest contact. Fernandez had been guilty of this on a couple of occasions and this is what he did when Burnley were awarded the corner, on the AR's advice, from which they scored. The AR was correct, having seen it on MOTD, the only query I have on this is was the whole of the ball actually over the line when Fernandez was lying on top of it? Looking at how players place the ball for corners and goal kicks it certainly was debatable.
Carroll was his usual robust self all afternoon and was always one of the favourites to receive a caution, however, I think that the yellow was correct when he hit Ben Mee, although there will be players dismissed these days for lesser challenges.

All in all I though that Tim Robinson and his team did a decent job in a front of a very partisan home crowd and the usual Geordie faithful. In spite of VAR etc. I just do not think that the officials are finding the job any easier because of the eccentric behaviour of a lot of players ( I won't use the word which springs to mind!).
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TVOS

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Re: Sat 14th – Mon 16th DEC 2019
« Reply #17 on: Sun 15 Dec 2019 11:16 »
Quote from: Ashington46 on Sun 15 Dec 2019 09:29
Quote from: Comeonref on Sun 15 Dec 2019 07:08
I have seen the game on MOTD. I think it’s a little bit of sour grapes by Mr Bruce. Two big decisions really. First the corner. Mr Robinson initially gave a goal kick. His Assistant has obviously had a word in the ear . Changed to a corner. It’s the correct decision. No foul there for me and his defenders should have done better at the corner. Second incident is the yellow card for Carroll. Spot on for me. Carroll is a big bloke and has caught Mee with his elbow. Mee hadn’t left the ground so Carroll was always going to contact him on his way down . I don’t think he has gone to do him. Never a red card. I seem to recall that the PL managers did the same the last couple of seasons. Have a pop at any SG2 refs who have their first couple of games in the PL. . I think he did okay and hopefully they will continue to give him and others these games. Burnley v Newcastle was always going to be a battle game for any ref. When all said and done its how the Assessor and PL view it.

I was at the game and I honestly don't know why both managers were complaining about the referee. He did a good job in very difficult weather conditions.
There were possibly a couple of decisions which were questionable, however, the players do not help when they are going down and rolling around when they just feel the slightest contact. Fernandez had been guilty of this on a couple of occasions and this is what he did when Burnley were awarded the corner, on the AR's advice, from which they scored. The AR was correct, having seen it on MOTD, the only query I have on this is was the whole of the ball actually over the line when Fernandez was lying on top of it? Looking at how players place the ball for corners and goal kicks it certainly was debatable.
Carroll was his usual robust self all afternoon and was always one of the favourites to receive a caution, however, I think that the yellow was correct when he hit Ben Mee, although there will be players dismissed these days for lesser challenges.

All in all I though that Tim Robinson and his team did a decent job in a front of a very partisan home crowd and the usual Geordie faithful. In spite of VAR etc. I just do not think that the officials are finding the job any easier because of the eccentric behaviour of a lot of players ( I won't use the word which springs to mind!).


And, would someone like say, Anthony Taylor, have made different decisions?

Poor form from Bruce and Dyche, to be honest.
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Bakis

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Re: Sat 14th – Mon 16th DEC 2019
« Reply #18 on: Sun 15 Dec 2019 12:59 »
Classic diversionary tactic from Bruce. I wonder where he could have learned it in his playing days?
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Ashington46

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Re: Sat 14th – Mon 16th DEC 2019
« Reply #19 on: Sun 15 Dec 2019 13:17 »
Quote from: Bakis on Sun 15 Dec 2019 12:59
Classic diversionary tactic from Bruce. I wonder where he could have learned it in his playing days?

Haha --I like that!
Bruce did have previous with this referee because he was refereeing the Carabao Cup game between Newcastle and  Leicester earlier in the season which I attended. It was the game in which Choudray for Leicester received a caution  for a very bad tackle on Ritchie, who has not played since that game in August. Bruce was not alone in thinking that it should have been a red and this probably came into his thinking when he did not get the decision for the Burnley goal.

As far as the comments made by Sean Dyche are concerned, he just said that Carroll could easily have been dismissed for his challenge the way the game is today --he is correct. His main point related to why a 'rookie' referee should be given a Burnley v Newcastle fixture because if they are good enough to referee in the PL they could be given a match involving one of the big clubs. I have to agree with that concept, in fact, a game involving the big clubs would probably be less physical than the game yesterday ----que sera sera.
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bmb

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Re: Sat 14th – Mon 16th DEC 2019
« Reply #20 on: Sun 15 Dec 2019 15:39 »
Quote from: Ashington46 on Sun 15 Dec 2019 09:29
I just do not think that the officials are finding the job any easier because of the eccentric behaviour of a lot of players ( I won't use the word which springs to mind!).

This is exactly what turned me off of PL football altogether - the gamesmanship for want of a better word.
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Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
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Readingfan

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Re: Sat 14th – Mon 16th DEC 2019
« Reply #21 on: Sun 15 Dec 2019 16:00 »
Quote from: Ashington46 on Sun 15 Dec 2019 13:17
Quote from: Bakis on Sun 15 Dec 2019 12:59
Classic diversionary tactic from Bruce. I wonder where he could have learned it in his playing days?

Haha --I like that!
Bruce did have previous with this referee because he was refereeing the Carabao Cup game between Newcastle and  Leicester earlier in the season which I attended. It was the game in which Choudray for Leicester received a caution  for a very bad tackle on Ritchie, who has not played since that game in August. Bruce was not alone in thinking that it should have been a red and this probably came into his thinking when he did not get the decision for the Burnley goal.

As far as the comments made by Sean Dyche are concerned, he just said that Carroll could easily have been dismissed for his challenge the way the game is today --he is correct. His main point related to why a 'rookie' referee should be given a Burnley v Newcastle fixture because if they are good enough to referee in the PL they could be given a match involving one of the big clubs. I have to agree with that concept, in fact, a game involving the big clubs would probably be less physical than the game yesterday ----que sera sera.

I don't really give Dyche's comments any credence.

Every PL referee has to start somewhere and it seems more a case of 'We don't want to be the first' but two clubs always ahve to be.

Starting with 12th V 11th (currently) seems a reasonable place to start. I'm not sure it would do anyone any good to throw Robinson straight into Arsenal V Man City today for instance.
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Ashington46

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Re: Sat 14th – Mon 16th DEC 2019
« Reply #22 on: Sun 15 Dec 2019 16:04 »
Quote from: bmb on Sun 15 Dec 2019 15:39
Quote from: Ashington46 on Sun 15 Dec 2019 09:29
I just do not think that the officials are finding the job any easier because of the eccentric behaviour of a lot of players ( I won't use the word which springs to mind!).

This is exactly what turned me off of PL football altogether - the gamesmanship for want of a better word.

One of the reasons why, after 68 years of watching Burnley, I shall not be renewing my season ticket next season.
Our style of football is not to the taste of most fans, including a lot of our own, however, we play to our strengths and very rarely go diving around to try to influence officials. Sadly, this is not the case with many clubs, therefore,  the job of the offiicials is being made increasingly more difficult with the misguided belief that, in the PL. VAR will sort things out.

Gamesmanship is a great word, bmb, because it covers so much!  :D
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Ashington46

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Re: Sat 14th – Mon 16th DEC 2019
« Reply #23 on: Sun 15 Dec 2019 16:30 »
Quote from: Readingfan on Sun 15 Dec 2019 16:00
Quote from: Ashington46 on Sun 15 Dec 2019 13:17
Quote from: Bakis on Sun 15 Dec 2019 12:59
Classic diversionary tactic from Bruce. I wonder where he could have learned it in his playing days?

Haha --I like that!
Bruce did have previous with this referee because he was refereeing the Carabao Cup game between Newcastle and  Leicester earlier in the season which I attended. It was the game in which Choudray for Leicester received a caution  for a very bad tackle on Ritchie, who has not played since that game in August. Bruce was not alone in thinking that it should have been a red and this probably came into his thinking when he did not get the decision for the Burnley goal.

As far as the comments made by Sean Dyche are concerned, he just said that Carroll could easily have been dismissed for his challenge the way the game is today --he is correct. His main point related to why a 'rookie' referee should be given a Burnley v Newcastle fixture because if they are good enough to referee in the PL they could be given a match involving one of the big clubs. I have to agree with that concept, in fact, a game involving the big clubs would probably be less physical than the game yesterday ----que sera sera.

I don't really give Dyche's comments any credence.

Every PL referee has to start somewhere and it seems more a case of 'We don't want to be the first' but two clubs always ahve to be.

Starting with 12th V 11th (currently) seems a reasonable place to start. I'm not sure it would do anyone any good to throw Robinson straight into Arsenal V Man City today for instance.

Just for the record, I did not say that he should be refereeing Arsenal v Man City. I said a match involving one of the big clubs, which is quite different.
It is no big deal refereeing one of  the big clubs for your first match because they can always fall back on VAR if they get something wrong and the fans of the big clubs are much more reasonable that Burnley fans!
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Acme Thunderer

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Re: Sat 14th – Mon 16th DEC 2019
« Reply #24 on: Sun 15 Dec 2019 17:24 »
Quote from: Ashington46 on Sun 15 Dec 2019 16:30
Quote from: Readingfan on Sun 15 Dec 2019 16:00
Quote from: Ashington46 on Sun 15 Dec 2019 13:17
Quote from: Bakis on Sun 15 Dec 2019 12:59
Classic diversionary tactic from Bruce. I wonder where he could have learned it in his playing days?

Haha --I like that!
Bruce did have previous with this referee because he was refereeing the Carabao Cup game between Newcastle and  Leicester earlier in the season which I attended. It was the game in which Choudray for Leicester received a caution  for a very bad tackle on Ritchie, who has not played since that game in August. Bruce was not alone in thinking that it should have been a red and this probably came into his thinking when he did not get the decision for the Burnley goal.

As far as the comments made by Sean Dyche are concerned, he just said that Carroll could easily have been dismissed for his challenge the way the game is today --he is correct. His main point related to why a 'rookie' referee should be given a Burnley v Newcastle fixture because if they are good enough to referee in the PL they could be given a match involving one of the big clubs. I have to agree with that concept, in fact, a game involving the big clubs would probably be less physical than the game yesterday ----que sera sera.

I don't really give Dyche's comments any credence.

Every PL referee has to start somewhere and it seems more a case of 'We don't want to be the first' but two clubs always ahve to be.

Starting with 12th V 11th (currently) seems a reasonable place to start. I'm not sure it would do anyone any good to throw Robinson straight into Arsenal V Man City today for instance.

Just for the record, I did not say that he should be refereeing Arsenal v Man City. I said a match involving one of the big clubs, which is quite different.
It is no big deal refereeing one of  the big clubs for your first match because they can always fall back on VAR if they get something wrong and the fans of the big clubs are much more reasonable that Burnley fans!

Ouch! For the record, living in the North West now, I have attended most of the Burnley v Palace games over the past 10 years and I have never had any problem with the Burnley fans. And I cannot fault the hospitality of the Burnley Cricket Club before and after games either, and it doesn't matter who you support and what the result was.
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Readingfan

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Re: Sat 14th – Mon 16th DEC 2019
« Reply #25 on: Sun 15 Dec 2019 17:29 »
Quote from: Ashington46 on Sun 15 Dec 2019 16:30
Quote from: Readingfan on Sun 15 Dec 2019 16:00
Quote from: Ashington46 on Sun 15 Dec 2019 13:17
Quote from: Bakis on Sun 15 Dec 2019 12:59
Classic diversionary tactic from Bruce. I wonder where he could have learned it in his playing days?

Haha --I like that!
Bruce did have previous with this referee because he was refereeing the Carabao Cup game between Newcastle and  Leicester earlier in the season which I attended. It was the game in which Choudray for Leicester received a caution  for a very bad tackle on Ritchie, who has not played since that game in August. Bruce was not alone in thinking that it should have been a red and this probably came into his thinking when he did not get the decision for the Burnley goal.

As far as the comments made by Sean Dyche are concerned, he just said that Carroll could easily have been dismissed for his challenge the way the game is today --he is correct. His main point related to why a 'rookie' referee should be given a Burnley v Newcastle fixture because if they are good enough to referee in the PL they could be given a match involving one of the big clubs. I have to agree with that concept, in fact, a game involving the big clubs would probably be less physical than the game yesterday ----que sera sera.

I don't really give Dyche's comments any credence.

Every PL referee has to start somewhere and it seems more a case of 'We don't want to be the first' but two clubs always ahve to be.

Starting with 12th V 11th (currently) seems a reasonable place to start. I'm not sure it would do anyone any good to throw Robinson straight into Arsenal V Man City today for instance.

Just for the record, I did not say that he should be refereeing Arsenal v Man City. I said a match involving one of the big clubs, which is quite different.


Some might argue that Arsenal V Man City is a match involving only one of the big clubs currently!  ;)

If, for argument's sake, Robinson had been appointed to 2nd place Leicester V Norwich yesterday then it would have deprived Andy Madley, a new FIFA referee, from that opportunity. I'm not convinced htat would have been a good thing.

It does illustrate the balance the PGMO have to strike. A lot of people on RTR want to see SG2 referees given some games at PL level but there seems to be resistance from clubs to Championship referees doing PL games. You have to wonder what the benefits are compared to the pressures for the referee in question and how much the PGMO can deduce from one or two trial PL games compared to a case like Peter Bankes where he was just promoted based on FL performances and received his first PL game when already a full-time PL referee.

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Ashington46

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Re: Sat 14th – Mon 16th DEC 2019
« Reply #26 on: Sun 15 Dec 2019 18:12 »
Quote from: Acme Thunderer on Sun 15 Dec 2019 17:24
Quote from: Ashington46 on Sun 15 Dec 2019 16:30
Quote from: Readingfan on Sun 15 Dec 2019 16:00
Quote from: Ashington46 on Sun 15 Dec 2019 13:17
Quote from: Bakis on Sun 15 Dec 2019 12:59
Classic diversionary tactic from Bruce. I wonder where he could have learned it in his playing days?

Haha --I like that!
Bruce did have previous with this referee because he was refereeing the Carabao Cup game between Newcastle and  Leicester earlier in the season which I attended. It was the game in which Choudray for Leicester received a caution  for a very bad tackle on Ritchie, who has not played since that game in August. Bruce was not alone in thinking that it should have been a red and this probably came into his thinking when he did not get the decision for the Burnley goal.

As far as the comments made by Sean Dyche are concerned, he just said that Carroll could easily have been dismissed for his challenge the way the game is today --he is correct. His main point related to why a 'rookie' referee should be given a Burnley v Newcastle fixture because if they are good enough to referee in the PL they could be given a match involving one of the big clubs. I have to agree with that concept, in fact, a game involving the big clubs would probably be less physical than the game yesterday ----que sera sera.

I don't really give Dyche's comments any credence.

Every PL referee has to start somewhere and it seems more a case of 'We don't want to be the first' but two clubs always ahve to be.

Starting with 12th V 11th (currently) seems a reasonable place to start. I'm not sure it would do anyone any good to throw Robinson straight into Arsenal V Man City today for instance.

Just for the record, I did not say that he should be refereeing Arsenal v Man City. I said a match involving one of the big clubs, which is quite different.
It is no big deal refereeing one of  the big clubs for your first match because they can always fall back on VAR if they get something wrong and the fans of the big clubs are much more reasonable that Burnley fans!

Ouch! For the record, living in the North West now, I have attended most of the Burnley v Palace games over the past 10 years and I have never had any problem with the Burnley fans. And I cannot fault the hospitality of the Burnley Cricket Club before and after games either, and it doesn't matter who you support and what the result was.

Acme --as a Burnley fan for the last 68 years, I am so pleased to hear that you have never had a problem and I agree that the hospitality at the Cricket Club is good for the away fans.
However, believe me, our fans can be every bit as hostile towards officials as others can. One of the Burnley fans' message boards has a Rate the Ref scoreboard every week marking each of  4 various aspects out of 25 --the marks being given to Tim Robinson since yesterday are derisory!

As an ex-official myself, albeit at a much lower level, I always go to a match to watch three teams and the assessment I gave earlier was my honest, unbiased view because I thought that he and his team did quite well in difficult circumstances.
May your visits to the Turf remain enjoyable ---but not as enjoyable as the last two seasons!!
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TVOS

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Re: Sat 14th – Mon 16th DEC 2019
« Reply #27 on: Sun 15 Dec 2019 18:23 »
Quote from: Readingfan on Sun 15 Dec 2019 16:00
Quote from: Ashington46 on Sun 15 Dec 2019 13:17
Quote from: Bakis on Sun 15 Dec 2019 12:59
Classic diversionary tactic from Bruce. I wonder where he could have learned it in his playing days?

Haha --I like that!
Bruce did have previous with this referee because he was refereeing the Carabao Cup game between Newcastle and  Leicester earlier in the season which I attended. It was the game in which Choudray for Leicester received a caution  for a very bad tackle on Ritchie, who has not played since that game in August. Bruce was not alone in thinking that it should have been a red and this probably came into his thinking when he did not get the decision for the Burnley goal.

As far as the comments made by Sean Dyche are concerned, he just said that Carroll could easily have been dismissed for his challenge the way the game is today --he is correct. His main point related to why a 'rookie' referee should be given a Burnley v Newcastle fixture because if they are good enough to referee in the PL they could be given a match involving one of the big clubs. I have to agree with that concept, in fact, a game involving the big clubs would probably be less physical than the game yesterday ----que sera sera.

I don't really give Dyche's comments any credence.

Every PL referee has to start somewhere and it seems more a case of 'We don't want to be the first' but two clubs always ahve to be.

Starting with 12th V 11th (currently) seems a reasonable place to start. I'm not sure it would do anyone any good to throw Robinson straight into Arsenal V Man City today for instance.

Oh I don’t know, it’s looked like a much easier game to officiate.
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JCFC

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Re: Sat 14th – Mon 16th DEC 2019
« Reply #28 on: Sun 15 Dec 2019 19:35 »
Some years ago now, Tobias Stieler was promoted to the Bundesliga pre-season. His first appointment? Why, the next Friday night live TV game!
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Readingfan

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Re: Sat 14th – Mon 16th DEC 2019
« Reply #29 on: Sun 15 Dec 2019 21:02 »
Quote from: JCFC on Sun 15 Dec 2019 19:35
Some years ago now, Tobias Stieler was promoted to the Bundesliga pre-season. His first appointment? Why, the next Friday night live TV game!

I remember Steve Tanner getting two live Premier League games in the first two weeks after his promotion to SG - obviously it didn't work out for him in the end and I'm not sure he even got another two live games in the rest of the time he was a Premier League referee!

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