Author Topic: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022  (Read 4966 times)

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Referee99

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Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
« Reply #30 on: Sat 15 Jan 2022 14:44 »
Hope there’s going to be as much outrage on this forum that spurs vs arsenal has been called off as there was everton vs leicester being called off
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GingerReferee

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Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
« Reply #31 on: Sat 15 Jan 2022 15:13 »
Hope there’s going to be as much outrage on this forum that spurs vs arsenal has been called off as there was everton vs leicester being called off

As an arsenal fan I don't want this being postponed, but this is the first time we have requested so would be really unfair to not

bmb

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Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
« Reply #32 on: Sat 15 Jan 2022 16:09 »
Hope there’s going to be as much outrage on this forum that spurs vs arsenal has been called off as there was everton vs leicester being called off

Was their outrage on here? I must have missed it. So many games called off over the last few weeks, I've lost count on which teams. I recall comments about Newcastle because it was as much an injury problem as it was covid related, which most think tough luck on re injuries. Me included to be fair, if injury related tough luck imo, if covid related then fair enough.
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel

Leggy

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Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
« Reply #33 on: Sat 15 Jan 2022 16:15 »
When one thinks of some of the really good referees of yesteryear who never got awarded either the FA or League Cup Final, it is extraordinary to think that a referee of moderate ability like Jon Moss has had them both. However, the olden days were by no means perfect for they also threw up their share of extraordinary ( considering the paucity of their talent ) double Cup Final appointees among whom I would include Gordon Kew, Roger Milford ( contentious this choice as I know some really rated him ), Keith Hackett,  Mike Riley and most notably Peter Willis whom to call moderate is to be exceedingly generous.

There were also many fine referees who received the double Final honour, most particularly Jack Taylor, George Courtney, Neil Midgley, Joe Worrall (of course) and Peter Jones and others besides, I am sure.

I found myself agreeing with nearly all the referees listed in both categories.  As Whistleblower mentions, some really rated Milford and I must admit I rather enjoyed watching him referee for most of his career, perhaps influenced at the time by his 'matey' style.  However, his FA Cup Final performance and those awful Gascoigne challenges persuaded me I'd been misguided. 

Of those who received the double of Finals, I don't recall seeing a lot of Peter Jones although I know he was very well respected. But Taylor, Courtney, Midgley and Worrall were all referees I thought were superb and were certainly 4 of my favourites from past decades. I would add Pat Partridge who also refereed both the FA Cup and League Cup Finals.  In the 1978 World Cup where he was England's representative, he was perhaps unlucky only to get 1 game in the middle and 2 line appointments.  I think he only refereed a single match in the 1980 European Championships too.

So thanks Whistleblower.  Some great names there as well as the 'moderates'.

Sorry to go off topic but I enjoy the nostalgia.

Jim Parker from Preston… the ultimate card shark.

I’m sure others on here remember his strict disciplinary measures?!

I remember Jim very well, a referee who had no hesitation is dismissing a player if it was needed.  Also had/has  a terrific sense of humour.  I believe he gave a lot back to Lancs football but being 250 miles away, others will know much better.  A character when referees were allowed to be characters ......

rustyref

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Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
« Reply #34 on: Sat 15 Jan 2022 17:11 »
Hope there’s going to be as much outrage on this forum that spurs vs arsenal has been called off as there was everton vs leicester being called off

Was their outrage on here? I must have missed it. So many games called off over the last few weeks, I've lost count on which teams. I recall comments about Newcastle because it was as much an injury problem as it was covid related, which most think tough luck on re injuries. Me included to be fair, if injury related tough luck imo, if covid related then fair enough.

That's the problem, the rumour is that Arsenal only have one player absent through Covid.  They have four players away at AFCON , several injured and Xhaka suspended, and there is a squad rule in the EPL that will let them get away with postponement.  In the EPL you have to register a squad of 25 players at the start and end of each transfer window, but crucially you don't need to name anyone aged under 21 but they are automatically eligible to play.  Arsenal will probably actually have the minimum number of 13 players, but they san say that the likes of Saka, Martinelli, Tavares, Nketiah and Smith-Rowe don't count as they almost certainly aren't named players in the squad of 25, simply because they don't need to be as they were 21 or under at the start of the season.  If you don't count those players then they probably do have less than 13 available, but that is a nonsense.

Suporters now lose out on travel cost, hotel cost, etc, local pubs and cafes lose out on revenue, having probably got extra supplies in for a massive local derby, and it really just isn't right.
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Readingfan

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Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
« Reply #35 on: Sat 15 Jan 2022 17:22 »
Hope there’s going to be as much outrage on this forum that spurs vs arsenal has been called off as there was everton vs leicester being called off

Was their outrage on here? I must have missed it. So many games called off over the last few weeks, I've lost count on which teams. I recall comments about Newcastle because it was as much an injury problem as it was covid related, which most think tough luck on re injuries. Me included to be fair, if injury related tough luck imo, if covid related then fair enough.

I think it is a tough one.

Personally I'd probably have said games could only be postponed if intervention from public health authorities - e.g. if training ground is ordered to be closed or entire squad forced into isolation (I guess less likely to happen now as close contacts don't have to self-isolate if they've been vaccinated - but of course that's another layer to all of this, as not all players will have been.) I'd maybe have allowed clubs to have a larger squad and asked them to consider implications of transfers/loans etc.

But one of the aspects seems to be sporting integrity. Obviously that was never really an issue before Covid - if you had a lot of players absent because of internationals/injuries then it was just tough and you had to get on with it.

Should Covid materially change that? If you're allowing a team to postpone a game due to integrity of league if they have 12 Covid cases, then is it then fair to prevent them from doing this if they have 3 Covid cases and 9 players at the African Cup of Nations? What if they have 11 Covid cases and 1 player at African Cup of Nations? Or if a player tests positive who is injured for 3 months so couldn't have played anyway?

It is not an easy balance to achieve - and I'm not sure it would be fair to change the rules mid-season, even if they are having unintended consequences.
« Last Edit: Sat 15 Jan 2022 19:57 by edy »

bmb

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Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
« Reply #36 on: Sat 15 Jan 2022 18:02 »
Arsenal will probably actually have the minimum number of 13 players, but they san say that the likes of Saka, Martinelli, Tavares, Nketiah and Smith-Rowe don't count as they almost certainly aren't named players in the squad of 25, simply because they don't need to be as they were 21 or under at the start of the season.  If you don't count those players then they probably do have less than 13 available, but that is a nonsense.

Suporters now lose out on travel cost, hotel cost, etc, local pubs and cafes lose out on revenue, having probably got extra supplies in for a massive local derby, and it really just isn't right.

That is a loophole that needs to be closed then, it's just plain wrong. 

As to the detrimental effect it has on supporters and local trade - completely agree with you.
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel

bmb

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Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
« Reply #37 on: Sat 15 Jan 2022 18:40 »
Hope there’s going to be as much outrage on this forum that spurs vs arsenal has been called off as there was everton vs leicester being called off

Was their outrage on here? I must have missed it. So many games called off over the last few weeks, I've lost count on which teams. I recall comments about Newcastle because it was as much an injury problem as it was covid related, which most think tough luck on re injuries. Me included to be fair, if injury related tough luck imo, if covid related then fair enough.

I think it is a tough one.

Personally I'd probably have said games could only be postponed if intervention from public health authorities - e.g. if training ground is ordered to be closed or entire squad forced into isolation (I guess less likely to happen now as close contacts don't have to self-isolate if they've been vaccinated - but of course that's another layer to all of this, as not all players will have been.) I'd maybe have allowed clubs to have a larger squad and asked them to consider implications of transfers/loans etc.

But one of the aspects seems to be sporting integrity. Obviously that was never really an issue before Covid - if you had a lot of players absent because of internationals/injuries then it was just tough and you had to get on with it.

Should Covid materially change that? If you're allowing a team to postpone a game due to integrity of league if they have 12 Covid cases, then is it then fair to prevent them from doing this if they have 3 Covid cases and 9 players at the African Cup of Nations? What if they have 11 Covid cases and 1 player at African Cup of Nations? Or if a player tests positive who is injured for 3 months so couldn't have played anyway?

It is not an easy balance to achieve - and I'm not sure it would be fair to change the rules mid-season, even if they are having unintended consequences.

The difference for me is that covid is highly contagious so yes it should be treated differently. They already have changed the rules mid season - they now count covid + injuries, whereas before it was just covid. I don't believe teams should have the same leeway for postponement due to injury (as has been the way for years) and especially not because players are missing due to AFCON.  They know when they sign the players they'll be away for it so that's on their transfer/signing policy.  They can change that by signing more British players or just non African players even to balance their squad better. If a team chooses to sign a high number of players who will be going to AFCON then they can't then complain about squad shortages when they do, imo. They certainly should not be allowed to use it as a basis for postponements. If they have regularly played players who fall into the not needing to be named in the 25 man squad because they are under 21 category, then those players should automatically be counted towards the 13 needed. If they're good enough to play week in week out then close the loophole of them not being counted when there is an issue. It's not that long ago one of the London clubs played a European game despite the team being decimated due to food poisoning because they were refused a postponement. That same precedent should be used for injuries, imo.
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel
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TVOS

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Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
« Reply #38 on: Sat 15 Jan 2022 19:29 »
When one thinks of some of the really good referees of yesteryear who never got awarded either the FA or League Cup Final, it is extraordinary to think that a referee of moderate ability like Jon Moss has had them both. However, the olden days were by no means perfect for they also threw up their share of extraordinary ( considering the paucity of their talent ) double Cup Final appointees among whom I would include Gordon Kew, Roger Milford ( contentious this choice as I know some really rated him ), Keith Hackett,  Mike Riley and most notably Peter Willis whom to call moderate is to be exceedingly generous.

There were also many fine referees who received the double Final honour, most particularly Jack Taylor, George Courtney, Neil Midgley, Joe Worrall (of course) and Peter Jones and others besides, I am sure.

I found myself agreeing with nearly all the referees listed in both categories.  As Whistleblower mentions, some really rated Milford and I must admit I rather enjoyed watching him referee for most of his career, perhaps influenced at the time by his 'matey' style.  However, his FA Cup Final performance and those awful Gascoigne challenges persuaded me I'd been misguided. 

Of those who received the double of Finals, I don't recall seeing a lot of Peter Jones although I know he was very well respected. But Taylor, Courtney, Midgley and Worrall were all referees I thought were superb and were certainly 4 of my favourites from past decades. I would add Pat Partridge who also refereed both the FA Cup and League Cup Finals.  In the 1978 World Cup where he was England's representative, he was perhaps unlucky only to get 1 game in the middle and 2 line appointments.  I think he only refereed a single match in the 1980 European Championships too.

So thanks Whistleblower.  Some great names there as well as the 'moderates'.

Sorry to go off topic but I enjoy the nostalgia.

Jim Parker from Preston… the ultimate card shark.

I’m sure others on here remember his strict disciplinary measures?!

I remember Jim very well, a referee who had no hesitation is dismissing a player if it was needed.  Also had/has  a terrific sense of humour.  I believe he gave a lot back to Lancs football but being 250 miles away, others will know much better.  A character when referees were allowed to be characters ......

I was invited to a pre-season game at the Lancashire FA headquarters a few years ago by one of the officials. While sitting in the bar pre-match, I noticed Jim Parker seemed to be running the food side of things and someone like Eddie Wolstenholme, who was sat at our table, claimed Parker's chilli con carne * was legendary in those parts!


* It might have been curry

Readingfan

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Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
« Reply #39 on: Sat 15 Jan 2022 20:11 »
Hope there’s going to be as much outrage on this forum that spurs vs arsenal has been called off as there was everton vs leicester being called off

Was their outrage on here? I must have missed it. So many games called off over the last few weeks, I've lost count on which teams. I recall comments about Newcastle because it was as much an injury problem as it was covid related, which most think tough luck on re injuries. Me included to be fair, if injury related tough luck imo, if covid related then fair enough.

That's the problem, the rumour is that Arsenal only have one player absent through Covid.  They have four players away at AFCON , several injured and Xhaka suspended, and there is a squad rule in the EPL that will let them get away with postponement.  In the EPL you have to register a squad of 25 players at the start and end of each transfer window, but crucially you don't need to name anyone aged under 21 but they are automatically eligible to play.  Arsenal will probably actually have the minimum number of 13 players, but they san say that the likes of Saka, Martinelli, Tavares, Nketiah and Smith-Rowe don't count as they almost certainly aren't named players in the squad of 25, simply because they don't need to be as they were 21 or under at the start of the season.  If you don't count those players then they probably do have less than 13 available, but that is a nonsense.

Suporters now lose out on travel cost, hotel cost, etc, local pubs and cafes lose out on revenue, having probably got extra supplies in for a massive local derby, and it really just isn't right.

The PL website suggests those players would be taken into account as they have first team league experience - 'where a club cannot field 13 outfield players and a goalkeeper, either from their squad or appropriately experienced under 21 players, the match will be postponed'.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/2426753

rustyref

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Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
« Reply #40 on: Sat 15 Jan 2022 20:45 »
That isn't being followed though.  It talks about injury and illness, yet we know the AFCON missing players are being taken into account.  If you look at Arsenal's situation, it appears to be publicly known that Odegaard is the only one with Covid, so they are using the Covid rules to get a game called off primarily because of AFCON, injuries and suspensions. 
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Readingfan

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Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
« Reply #41 on: Sat 15 Jan 2022 20:59 »
That isn't being followed though.  It talks about injury and illness, yet we know the AFCON missing players are being taken into account.  If you look at Arsenal's situation, it appears to be publicly known that Odegaard is the only one with Covid, so they are using the Covid rules to get a game called off primarily because of AFCON, injuries and suspensions.

My reading of it is that if you have a positive Covid case and you also have fewer than 13 'first team' outfield players available, regardless of the reason, then you can get the game postponed.
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MCPridz

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Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
« Reply #42 on: Sun 16 Jan 2022 00:02 »
OF course it should of been postponed, everyone else is allowed to do it, liverpool even lied to get the first leg postponed, leicester had players at the darts the day they had a game off, but because it is arsenal everyone is in uproar over it's like it is one rule for us and one rule for everyone else, what failed to be mentioned is we had a massive covid outbreak opening day of the season but we were forced to play we had no RB on boxing day against Norwich but we played, this is our first time requesting it and was rightly cooled off, I didn't see spurs moaning when they had a massive break over Xmas and they called Rennes had flown over, I am just hoping us and Burnley are good to go next week as I am attending that match
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MCPridz

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Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
« Reply #43 on: Sun 16 Jan 2022 00:15 »
Besides another point the AFCON shouldn’t be played mid-season anyway it should be like any other tournament and played in the summer
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Leggy

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Re: Fri 14th – Wed 19th JAN 2022
« Reply #44 on: Sun 16 Jan 2022 11:40 »
Besides another point the AFCON shouldn’t be played mid-season anyway it should be like any other tournament and played in the summer

Do you think its a good idea to play a football tournament in Africa in the heat of the summer?  Even in the south of the continent (where it is technically winter) its still pretty hot in June and July.

In any case the football world does not need to revolve around big clubs - international games used to take precedence.  Its pretty insulting to the whole of African football to suggest that the needs of Arsenal (or any other Premier League team for that matter) are more important.  There have been a number of comments in the media saying that the disrespect that has been shown to AFCON is unjust, unworthy and borderline racist.  I am 100% not saying that of anyone on this forum, but it does deserve the same respect as the Euros, or the Copa America.

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