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Author Topic: Serena Williams - disgraceful  (Read 486 times)

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Hendo

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Serena Williams - disgraceful
« on: Sat 08 Sep 2018 23:22 »
Just seen the disgraceful behaviour from this obnoxious individual in the US Women’s Final - behaviour matched by a volatile partisan crowd. Amazing achievement by Osaka to win under such conditions.
Justice would suggest a large fine and ban for Williams but I bet the powers that be will somehow fudge it.

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Whistleblower

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Re: Serena Williams - disgraceful
« Reply #1 on: Sun 09 Sep 2018 13:22 »
I agree,a disgraceful exhibition of unsporting behaviour from Williams. She has clearly lost the plot, due I suspect to the fact of too much of significance happening in her life all at once and not being able to cope with it all. Hope she sorts her head out because, in her day, she was a fantastic athlete and a role model for aspiring athletes. Very well dome to Osaka keeping her head when all about were losing theirs.

ajb95

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Re: Serena Williams - disgraceful
« Reply #2 on: Sun 09 Sep 2018 23:20 »
Think you’re both being a little harsh. Williams got some harsh treatment from a very incompetent umpire.
This wasn’t to do with winning or losing this was about dignity and fairness. Some of the penalties Williams got were abject and ones which many of her fellow pros wouldn’t have got- certainly the men. People like kygrios et al can abuse the umpires at will and nothing ever happens, yet Williams got docked a game, when has that ever happened before?
She got docked a point for a broken racquet? How many requests have Djokovic Murray sock ferrer etc gone through in their careers nothing ever happened?

Yes a superb victory for Osaka and Williams knows she played poorly, but more going on and all came from a very impartial and incompetent umpire. Time women games were umpires by women
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Steelman

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Re: Serena Williams - disgraceful
« Reply #3 on: Sun 09 Sep 2018 23:41 »
Think you’re both being a little harsh. Williams got some harsh treatment from a very incompetent umpire.
This wasn’t to do with winning or losing this was about dignity and fairness. Some of the penalties Williams got were abject and ones which many of her fellow pros wouldn’t have got- certainly the men. People like kygrios et al can abuse the umpires at will and nothing ever happens, yet Williams got docked a game, when has that ever happened before?
She got docked a point for a broken racquet? How many requests have Djokovic Murray sock ferrer etc gone through in their careers nothing ever happened?

Yes a superb victory for Osaka and Williams knows she played poorly, but more going on and all came from a very impartial and incompetent umpire. Time women games were umpires by women

Every deliberately broken racket caused by player slamming it into ground is a mandatory code violation, which is rarely overlooked by an umpire. In this case she was docked a point as this was a second code violation in the match, the first being a warning for coaching. The second warning results in a point penalty and her third in the one match, her rant at the umpire, a game penalty. Further penalties are a set and then forfeit of match for continued code violations
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Warren Zevon 1947-2003
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reflector

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Re: Serena Williams - disgraceful
« Reply #4 on: Mon 10 Sep 2018 08:39 »
Think you’re both being a little harsh. Williams got some harsh treatment from a very incompetent umpire.
This wasn’t to do with winning or losing this was about dignity and fairness. Some of the penalties Williams got were abject and ones which many of her fellow pros wouldn’t have got- certainly the men. People like kygrios et al can abuse the umpires at will and nothing ever happens, yet Williams got docked a game, when has that ever happened before?
She got docked a point for a broken racquet? How many requests have Djokovic Murray sock ferrer etc gone through in their careers nothing ever happened?

Yes a superb victory for Osaka and Williams knows she played poorly, but more going on and all came from a very impartial and incompetent umpire. Time women games were umpires by women
That may well be true and certainly she seems to be getting support from others in the womens game.  But surely the level of her rant goes well beyond that which can be tolerated in any sport and, had this sort of open and abusive dissent happened in football. I am sure there would be many on here calling for a lengthy if not indefinite suspension.
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Whistleblower

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Re: Serena Williams - disgraceful
« Reply #5 on: Mon 10 Sep 2018 09:20 »
The umpire may have been incompetent ( I didn't see the whole match and even if I did I am not conversant enough with tennis officiating to judge ) I presume they give the Finals of the Grand Slams to those umpires who have been assessed as the best. However, incompetence in a match official is no excuse for such petulant ranting and if any football player had called me a "liar" and a "thief" that would have been the end of their participation in the match, there and then ,without any qualification at all. Calling the integrity of match officials into question is beyond the pale for me and I have no doubts that umpires at junior tennis competitions now will be receiving more abuse as young players emulate their idol.

Williams' behaviour was simply unacceptable in my book and if that is a harsh judgement then so be it. It's a great pity such a talented and successful athlete, who should be a marvellous role model, has so let herself down.

If it is true that women players are given more draconian treatment then men in terms of penalties, then that is an intolerable situation and must be addressed by the authorities immediately.
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Readingfan

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Re: Serena Williams - disgraceful
« Reply #6 on: Mon 10 Sep 2018 17:04 »
I don't know too much about tennis and certainly can't comment on how consistently punishments are applied. I do gather, however, from doing some reading on the subject that it was not uncharacteristic for the umpire in question to interpret the laws and provide the punishments that they did.

I tend to believe too that in any walk of life if you break regulations you are leading yourself open to the possibility of sanction and cannot complain if this happens. It will invariably not be punished in every single case for a multitude of reasons - if one of these reasons is due to unfair treatment, then it should certainly be investigated.

From my perspective, Williams' actions certainly seemed shameful and suitably punished. Her coach has admitted to the first indiscretion. The second one was clear to everyone. As for the rant, she seemed completely out of control and it certainly went far beyond anything that I would expect an official to tolerate. It is often remarked in football that 'cheat' is  one of the very worst things that a player can say to a referee and, as Whistleblower suggests, 'thief' seems to fall under a similar category and I would certainly not be sorry if Williams were to acquire further punishment in the form of a fine or suspension.

Whistleblower

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Re: Serena Williams - disgraceful
« Reply #7 on: Mon 10 Sep 2018 20:07 »
And now we are treated to the old ruse of the perpetrator of the offence claiming victimhood. The victim here was umpire Carlos Ramos who underwent appalling treatment which no -one should have to tolerate and in front of thousands of people and, from I could see, behaved perfectly gracefully under severe provocation. I hope the tennis authorities award him a very major Final to umpire  at the earliest opportunity. The sanctions he imposed on Williams were strictly by the book.

Acme Thunderer

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Re: Serena Williams - disgraceful
« Reply #8 on: Tue 11 Sep 2018 08:59 »
It seems that Carlos Ramos is a 'stickler' for the rules (not my word). This is fine imo. However, in the same tournament, we had an umpire getting out of his chair to encourage a male player to play better, which he promptly did and won the match. It is all about consistency here and The Times notes that some umpires are unhappy with the haphazard organisation of this year's US Open. All I can say is thank goodness that Collina & Co did their job well in the recent World Cup in Russia. They encouraged the refs to keep their cards in their pockets as far as possible and to overlook minor transgressions, for example ball in the wrong place at free kicks, in the interests of keeping the games flowing. The result imo was a major success in terms of TV viewing. We no longer have the 'shambles' of England v Argentina at Wembley in 1966 and the tennis authorities would do well to follow football's example. Oh, and the real victim of Saturday's US Open Final (apart from tennis)? Well it has to be the Open first time winner Naomi Osaka of Japan. Her post-match tears were definitely not tears of joy and Serena Williams certainly owes her an apology if nobody else.   
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Hertsref123

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Re: Serena Williams - disgraceful
« Reply #9 on: Tue 11 Sep 2018 11:31 »
It seems that Carlos Ramos is a 'stickler' for the rules (not my word). This is fine imo. However, in the same tournament, we had an umpire getting out of his chair to encourage a male player to play better, which he promptly did and won the match. It is all about consistency here and The Times notes that some umpires are unhappy with the haphazard organisation of this year's US Open. All I can say is thank goodness that Collina & Co did their job well in the recent World Cup in Russia. They encouraged the refs to keep their cards in their pockets as far as possible and to overlook minor transgressions, for example ball in the wrong place at free kicks, in the interests of keeping the games flowing. The result imo was a major success in terms of TV viewing. We no longer have the 'shambles' of England v Argentina at Wembley in 1966 and the tennis authorities would do well to follow football's example. Oh, and the real victim of Saturday's US Open Final (apart from tennis)? Well it has to be the Open first time winner Naomi Osaka of Japan. Her post-match tears were definitely not tears of joy and Serena Williams certainly owes her an apology if nobody else.

We should be celebrating osaka’s victory here, not talking about the horrible serena williams.

Hertsref123

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Re: Serena Williams - disgraceful
« Reply #10 on: Tue 11 Sep 2018 11:33 »
It seems that Carlos Ramos is a 'stickler' for the rules (not my word). This is fine imo. However, in the same tournament, we had an umpire getting out of his chair to encourage a male player to play better, which he promptly did and won the match. It is all about consistency here and The Times notes that some umpires are unhappy with the haphazard organisation of this year's US Open. All I can say is thank goodness that Collina & Co did their job well in the recent World Cup in Russia. They encouraged the refs to keep their cards in their pockets as far as possible and to overlook minor transgressions, for example ball in the wrong place at free kicks, in the interests of keeping the games flowing. The result imo was a major success in terms of TV viewing. We no longer have the 'shambles' of England v Argentina at Wembley in 1966 and the tennis authorities would do well to follow football's example. Oh, and the real victim of Saturday's US Open Final (apart from tennis)? Well it has to be the Open first time winner Naomi Osaka of Japan. Her post-match tears were definitely not tears of joy and Serena Williams certainly owes her an apology if nobody else.

We should be celebrating osaka’s victory here, not talking about serena williams horrible actions, its a great shame for osaka really, that the attention has been drawn away from her.

Hendo

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Re: Serena Williams - disgraceful
« Reply #11 on: Sun 16 Sep 2018 22:31 »
Just out of interest too we are talking about a very senior and respected umpire here, not some younger chap trying to make his way up the ladder.
Ramos has been an umpire for 27 years. He handled the 2007 Wimbledon Final between Federer and Nadal, an all Williams clash the following year, the 2012 Olympic Final when Murray beat Federer and has umpired finals at all the major tournaments
As has been said he followed the rules to the letter; it was the horrible miss Williams, her entourage and a ridiculously partisan crowd who were bang out of order.
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BabyRef

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Re: Serena Williams - disgraceful
« Reply #12 on: Tue 18 Sep 2018 11:40 »
Having watched it again I think Ramos acted absolutely correctly throughout.

The coaching penalty was clear cut, the racket abuse was mandatory and Ramos calmly absorbed a huge amount of abuse from Williams before he eventually gave the game penalty. I thought he showed real bravery standing up to someone who was behaving appallingly and a highly threatening and partisan crowd.

Ramos is the most experienced umpire on the circuit - he has umpired every single male Grand Slam final, plus the London Olympics Final and the final of the Davis Cup.

The fact that the WTA and USTA put out statements basically calling him a sexist (whilst upholding his decisions by giving fines to Williams) is appalling - Ramos is much more gracious than me - I would have been inclined to consider legal action.

It is not the first time Serena has threatened officials (remember 'I'll shove this ball down your throat' in 2011?) - she might be a great player but she is a terrible sportswoman.

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Acme Thunderer

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Re: Serena Williams - disgraceful
« Reply #13 on: Mon 24 Sep 2018 15:49 »
It seems that Carlos Ramos is a 'stickler' for the rules (not my word). This is fine imo. However, in the same tournament, we had an umpire getting out of his chair to encourage a male player to play better, which he promptly did and won the match. It is all about consistency here and The Times notes that some umpires are unhappy with the haphazard organisation of this year's US Open. All I can say is thank goodness that Collina & Co did their job well in the recent World Cup in Russia. They encouraged the refs to keep their cards in their pockets as far as possible and to overlook minor transgressions, for example ball in the wrong place at free kicks, in the interests of keeping the games flowing. The result imo was a major success in terms of TV viewing. We no longer have the 'shambles' of England v Argentina at Wembley in 1966 and the tennis authorities would do well to follow football's example. Oh, and the real victim of Saturday's US Open Final (apart from tennis)? Well it has to be the Open first time winner Naomi Osaka of Japan. Her post-match tears were definitely not tears of joy and Serena Williams certainly owes her an apology if nobody else.

A week or so ago but I noted that the umpire who got out of his chair to encourage a player has been suspended (or rested). Clearly there is some joined-up thinking within the tennis authorities after all!