Author Topic: Rugby Refereeing- A few questions (Read 487 times)

DublinRef · « **on:** Sat 23 Feb 2019 09:31 »

I've recently started following rugby and having an interest in officiating already I was wondering if anyone with more knowledge may be able to answer for me?

1. PRO14 referees - Do these referees ref exclusively in this competition? I know some don't i.e. Nigel Owens but for example Frank Murphy who did Leinster v Munster, I've never (I don't think) seen him referee international matches or European cup games, so how does this work?

2. Are there clear panels such as in UEFA elite, first group etc?

3.Is there a data base available to see how many games each referee has officiated (like there are many for football refs)?

4. It seems to someone outside the know like me that some refs have seemingly suddenly dropped off? George Clancy and JP Doyle both refereed at the 2015 RWC but they didn't officiate any 6 nations or Autumn internationals, seems a quick turnaround to me is this purely due to poor performances? Are they both totally out of the picture for RWC 2019?

5. Is there a list of pre selected officials for the world cup like FIFA do? Who is in the running and how many will attend?

Hendo · « **Reply #1 on:** Sat 23 Feb 2019 20:03 »

Quote from: DublinRef on Sat 23 Feb 2019 09:31

I've recently started following rugby and having an interest in officiating already I was wondering if anyone with more knowledge may be able to answer for me?

1. PRO14 referees - Do these referees ref exclusively in this competition? I know some don't i.e. Nigel Owens but for example Frank Murphy who did Leinster v Munster, I've never (I don't think) seen him referee international matches or European cup games, so how does this work?

2. Are there clear panels such as in UEFA elite, first group etc?

3.Is there a data base available to see how many games each referee has officiated (like there are many for football refs)?

4. It seems to someone outside the know like me that some refs have seemingly suddenly dropped off? George Clancy and JP Doyle both refereed at the 2015 RWC but they didn't officiate any 6 nations or Autumn internationals, seems a quick turnaround to me is this purely due to poor performances? Are they both totally out of the picture for RWC 2019?

5. Is there a list of pre selected officials for the world cup like FIFA do? Who is in the running and how many will attend?

Hi Dublin Ref I can answer some but not sure on all your points

1. Refs from European countries operate both in matches in their own country ( such as the Guinness Premiership in England) as well as the Euro competitions. It’s generally the top 5 or 6 refs in each country who do so in the latter, also being a good indicator of who might be thought of as a future international Ref. Certainly the top games, especially in European matches, are given to those who are already international refs
2. I think most countries have a panel of refs (more limited number in lesser countries) of those selected to be appointed to international games. World Rugby is responsible for appointing these refs to international games, with the likes of Owens, Garces, Barnes etc getting the top matches, similar to football. Up and coming refs can be groomed here with matches involving 3rd tier teams. It’s very similar to soccer the honest.
3. Not sure
4. It surprised many of us on here when Clancy was appointed as an international Ref - if you like, he was seen by us as the Lee Mason or Roger East of the rugby world. Need I say more? I think his international days are over, as are those of J P Doyle who suddenly fell from grace after a couple of poor games. With Wayne Barnes intending to retire this season Luke Pearce and Matt Carley will probably be vying for England’s no. 1 spot, though Karl Dickson the ex Quins player turned Ref seems to be on an accelerated scheme. One to watch for.
5. I gather there will be a panel of 12 refs at this years World Cup. With 14 operating at this years 6 Nations (Nic Berry has 2 games) one can assume that the 12 will be chosen from these, with 2 missing out. The 2 who do miss out will be joining a group who will act as touch judges only.

Hope this helps a bit.

DublinRef · « **Reply #2 on:** Sat 23 Feb 2019 22:06 »

Quote from: Hendo on Sat 23 Feb 2019 20:03

Quote from: DublinRef on Sat 23 Feb 2019 09:31
I've recently started following rugby and having an interest in officiating already I was wondering if anyone with more knowledge may be able to answer for me?

1. PRO14 referees - Do these referees ref exclusively in this competition? I know some don't i.e. Nigel Owens but for example Frank Murphy who did Leinster v Munster, I've never (I don't think) seen him referee international matches or European cup games, so how does this work?

2. Are there clear panels such as in UEFA elite, first group etc?

3.Is there a data base available to see how many games each referee has officiated (like there are many for football refs)?

4. It seems to someone outside the know like me that some refs have seemingly suddenly dropped off? George Clancy and JP Doyle both refereed at the 2015 RWC but they didn't officiate any 6 nations or Autumn internationals, seems a quick turnaround to me is this purely due to poor performances? Are they both totally out of the picture for RWC 2019?

5. Is there a list of pre selected officials for the world cup like FIFA do? Who is in the running and how many will attend?

Hi Dublin Ref I can answer some but not sure on all your points

1. Refs from European countries operate both in matches in their own country ( such as the Guinness Premiership in England) as well as the Euro competitions. It’s generally the top 5 or 6 refs in each country who do so in the latter, also being a good indicator of who might be thought of as a future international Ref. Certainly the top games, especially in European matches, are given to those who are already international refs
2. I think most countries have a panel of refs (more limited number in lesser countries) of those selected to be appointed to international games. World Rugby is responsible for appointing these refs to international games, with the likes of Owens, Garces, Barnes etc getting the top matches, similar to football. Up and coming refs can be groomed here with matches involving 3rd tier teams. It’s very similar to soccer the honest.
3. Not sure
4. It surprised many of us on here when Clancy was appointed as an international Ref - if you like, he was seen by us as the Lee Mason or Roger East of the rugby world. Need I say more? I think his international days are over, as are those of J P Doyle who suddenly fell from grace after a couple of poor games. With Wayne Barnes intending to retire this season Luke Pearce and Matt Carley will probably be vying for England’s no. 1 spot, though Karl Dickson the ex Quins player turned Ref seems to be on an accelerated scheme. One to watch for.
5. I gather there will be a panel of 12 refs at this years World Cup. With 14 operating at this years 6 Nations (Nic Berry has 2 games) one can assume that the 12 will be chosen from these, with 2 missing out. The 2 who do miss out will be joining a group who will act as touch judges only.

Hope this helps a bit.

Helps an awful lot Hendo thank you very much for taking the time to reply,

On Clancy and Doyle, did Clancy have a few really bad games? Seems odd that he like Doyle suddenly dropped from international refereeing after being in the worlds top 12, as for Doyle you mentioned he had a few bad games, were they particularly disastrous? To me he seems like one of the best refs out there a great communicator (that said I'm not great on the laws)

Hendo · « **Reply #3 on:** Sat 23 Feb 2019 22:55 »

Clancy was one of those refs who never inspired confidence and seemed to court controversial incidents in most games - things like tries following forward passes, awful handling of the offside at rucks, etc. He never looked comfortable and was at times a bit like a startled rabbit in the headlights, much akin to the former PL Ref Mike Jones. I always thought his communication seemed lacking too though I have seen comments from his fellow refs that he is a lovely guy with a wicked sense of humour. He reffed at both the 2011 and 2015 World Cups and was even given the honour of the opening match in 2011. Interestingly although he has reffed a vast number of European matches over the last 10 years he has never had a Final as far as I can recall whereas colleagues Rolland and Lacey did. As an aside I think Andrew Brace will be the next Irish no. 1 though it looks as if he will be going to Japan as a touch judge rather than referee.
Doyle I agree seems a good communicator and seemed to be being groomed as Barnes no. 2 and heir apparent in recent years. I felt at times he was a bit lax with indiscipline but Can’t point to any specific games in the past which may have resulted in his rapid demotion, maybe just a feeling from those in power that he wasn’t cutting the mustard so to speak.

RCG · « **Reply #4 on:** Wed 27 Feb 2019 07:01 »

Italy vs Wales in 6N and then an autumn international which I think was in Scotland. Players questioned everything Doyle did and despite his excellence in this country, he seemed to just lose it.
Ironically then went on to referee a european challenge cup QF perfectly and did a very good job with a Champions Cup SF

Other than the Elite world refs there is no specific panel. Appointments made in conjunction with each country.

Any referee who officiates regularly in their own top flight can do European games, although as Hendo says, usually limited to top 6 from each country.

RateTheRef

News:

User

Stats ezBlock

Author Topic: Rugby Refereeing- A few questions (Read 487 times)

DublinRef

Rugby Refereeing- A few questions

Hendo

Re: Rugby Refereeing- A few questions

DublinRef

Re: Rugby Refereeing- A few questions

Hendo

Re: Rugby Refereeing- A few questions

RCG

Re: Rugby Refereeing- A few questions