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Author Topic: Rugby Autumn Internationals  (Read 1388 times)

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Hertsref123

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Re: Rugby Autumn Internationals
« Reply #15 on: Sat 13 Nov 2021 11:32 »
so with the World Cup next year barnes is a definite plus 2/3 other British representatives with a English t.m.o?

World cup is in 2023, and yh Iíd say barnes and pearce are locks, i think carley will go as well, only english tmo i can see potantially going is tom foley.

RCG

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Re: Rugby Autumn Internationals
« Reply #16 on: Sun 14 Nov 2021 09:41 »
Some good/excellent performances yesterday.
Angus Gardner looked back to his best, assured, calm, fit, consistent. Helps having experience around you in Wayne Barnes who only involved himself when called upon.
Jaco Peyper did better than I expected, but that might be because he penalised the Aussies lots. I felt his TMO got over involved a few times and eroded some of Peypers control. Still not convinced I would want Peyper doing us in France or against NZ.
Luke Pearce was immense in Dublin, fast becoming WRs go to guy. Calm, self assured, put Sexton politely back in his box, managed the game beautifully. Definitely helps having a familiar person in TMO booth. Was commented that all 4 Englishmen "were on same page"

Alfie75

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Re: Rugby Autumn Internationals
« Reply #17 on: Sun 14 Nov 2021 18:51 »
Agree with the comments again

Think I read somewhere that you won't get a perfect refereeing performance in this era. So, instead it's the KMI's that would be discussed.

2 particularly interesting games with Ireland v NZ and I thought Pearce was very good overall but baffled in the decision to give NZ the put at the scrum went everyone stopped playing!!
Thought he was cool, calm and collected with great communication so we all knew what was going on. Fast becoming one of the top officials in the game still at a young 34.

Peyper was also very good IMHO - didn't agree with all decisions but got the 2 YC's correct. Interesting that Eddie Jones said before the game the Jaco was probably the best in the world (mind games perhaps).

No issues for Angus Gardner as he performed well too.

The second fab game of the weekend was Wales v Fiji (who really didn't help themselves). So much to discuss and tbh I though his AR's didn't help Nic Berry at times. Why Ben O Keefe in particular didn't initially call the attention for the RC offence was baffling as he was right in front of the incident and should have got involved. It also looked like he didn't agree with the RC (which was stonewall). I actually though Nic should have been stronger and he didn't seem sure at all. Only the TMO really helped him out of a hole there!!
Fiji's discipline didn't help either and the other YC's were correct.
The Italian AR Gnecchi should have spotted the foot over the line (he clearly wasn't looking) and that should have been ruled out in real-time.
Whilst I think Nic Berry is a good referee, he seems to have lost confidence after getting a bit of a bashing for his handling of his Lions match by some members of the press and obviously the SA management team and some ex officials in the media.

First time to see Damon Murphy in action during a test and overall he seemed confident with a no-nonsense approach (a bit like Alain Rolland). But overall was fine.

No issues for James Doleman in his match either (a bit quieter than Williams & O Keefe).

Overall, a good weekend for the officials involved!!

Hendo

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Re: Rugby Autumn Internationals
« Reply #18 on: Sun 14 Nov 2021 20:53 »
Yes, would concur with the comments from RCG and Alfie.
I like Gardner as a referee, he seems to have an excellent rapport with the players and there is something very understanding about the way he controls games. I rate him higher than Berry and still think that if he had been fit he would have been given the nod over Berry for the Lions series in S A.
Pearce is class, head and shoulders above Carley imho.
I still have my reservations about Peyper. I thought he was quite fussy yesterday and didnít help the flow of the game which was a bit attritional at times and lacking in quality.

And so onto next weekend with Andy Brace at Twickenham, Mike Adamson at the Principality, Carley in Ireland and Wayne Barnes in France.

Wollongong Ref

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Re: Rugby Autumn Internationals
« Reply #19 on: Sun 14 Nov 2021 21:39 »
I thought Jaco P was terrible. Over fussy does not come close and this ensured there was no flow to the game. It always seems to me that Rugby refs have the ability to either create a great game or kill one. Jaco did the latter.
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Alfie75

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Re: Rugby Autumn Internationals
« Reply #20 on: Sun 14 Nov 2021 22:19 »
Respect the comments from Hendo & Wollongong Ref. I have to disagree I didn't think he was over-fussy, thought he was pretty fine.
Think the game was killed by IMHO an Australia side that could not put phases together at all really and England quite honestly dominated but couldn't convert for much of the game and made hard work of it (especially in the first half).
I think Jaco only refereed what was in front of him and have no complaints with the handling of the game in general - of course we will disagree with decisions and yes officials can potential dictate how the game pans out, but wouldn't blame Jaco for actually what was quite a poor game.
Both sides will need to up their games next weekend against an impressive SA side and the in-form Welsh.
Think actually, the 6 Nations will be really close next year.

Hertsref123

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Re: Rugby Autumn Internationals
« Reply #21 on: Mon 15 Nov 2021 10:01 »
Agreed with the above comment, i dont think peyper necessarily killed the game, what killed it for me, was the ridiculous amount of high tackles the australian team put in, maybe peyper couldíve warned them about dangerous tackling. But the wallabies seemed to be trying to rough england up a bit. Also neither side played particularly good rugby either.
« Last Edit: Mon 15 Nov 2021 10:14 by Hertsref123 »

simonbarker156@sky.com

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Re: Rugby Autumn Internationals
« Reply #22 on: Sat 20 Nov 2021 16:54 »
Andrew Bryce - good first half but poor second half - he allowed the SA Captain to dictate the decisions - scrum penalties were a guess and inconsistent. The mauls were inconsistently refereed - so poor and inconsistent performance

RCG

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Re: Rugby Autumn Internationals
« Reply #23 on: Sat 20 Nov 2021 21:01 »
Appreciate your comments Simon but I actually thought he managed the game well. He impresses me with his calmness and decision making process. I may not agree with all the outcomes but I felt he was generally good. Certainly right up there as a NH referee.

Pickerill did well at Murrayfield, felt a card should have come earlier for repeated offences - a solid performance as he emerges as a contender for NZ #3

Unfortunately I felt Adamson was underwhelming, if ever a game was refereed by a scrum half on one side and a fly half on the other, this was it.
Red spot on, as was Beales yellow after.
I felt the Welsh player in the 2nd half should have seen red, it was a cheap shot and the offended Aussie should have seen yellow for the tackle that got him there. Never felt a comfortable watch as decisions seemed random at best.

Hendo

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Re: Rugby Autumn Internationals
« Reply #24 on: Sat 20 Nov 2021 22:36 »
Appreciate your comments Simon but I actually thought he managed the game well. He impresses me with his calmness and decision making process. I may not agree with all the outcomes but I felt he was generally good. Certainly right up there as a NH referee.

Pickerill did well at Murrayfield, felt a card should have come earlier for repeated offences - a solid performance as he emerges as a contender for NZ #3

Unfortunately I felt Adamson was underwhelming, if ever a game was refereed by a scrum half on one side and a fly half on the other, this was it.
Red spot on, as was Beales yellow after.
I felt the Welsh player in the 2nd half should have seen red, it was a cheap shot and the offended Aussie should have seen yellow for the tackle that got him there. Never felt a comfortable watch as decisions seemed random at best.

I think you are spot on RCG. Felt Brace did a good job; maybe seemed very hard on England at times but the South African forwards were immense and forced a series of penalties from England, whose discipline at times let them down too. His calmness is impressive and he rarely seems to raise his voice. As to the match, what a game and in many ways surprising that England won after that torrid 2nd half.
Adamson seemed to struggle as you say, there is something about him which doesnít inspire confidence but canít put my finger on it. Maybe just inexperience?
And as to France and New Zealand, quelle match! France were at times back to their brilliant best, some scintillating rugby from both teams. And another imperious display from the excellent Wayne Barnes whose communication and explanations are second to none and who commands respect from the players. The gulf between him and Adamson was clear to see for anyone watching both games.

RCG

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Re: Rugby Autumn Internationals
« Reply #25 on: Sun 21 Nov 2021 07:52 »
As auditions went I think Barnes and Co can be very pleased, odds on him refereeing the opening game in 2 years time must have shortened. Apart from a couple of scuffles the game was played at great pace, with a lot of skill on both sides. Was a very enjoyable day of rugby and one to warm NH hearts (although the SH teams do seem to have been playing test matches for ages)

WR will now evaluate performances and appoint for the 6N. I would be tempted to give Barnes a rest, nothing to be gained in giving him Wal/Fra again.

I would like to see Craig Evans get a game. Other NH refs should be Brace, Pearce, Carley/Dickson, Raynal, Adamson.

From SH, Gardner, O'Keefe, Berry, Williams, Peyper and I feel they need to blood Murphy, Jacobs and possibly Pickerill.

Alfie75

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Re: Rugby Autumn Internationals
« Reply #26 on: Sun 21 Nov 2021 11:54 »
Appreciate your comments Simon but I actually thought he managed the game well. He impresses me with his calmness and decision making process. I may not agree with all the outcomes but I felt he was generally good. Certainly right up there as a NH referee.

Pickerill did well at Murrayfield, felt a card should have come earlier for repeated offences - a solid performance as he emerges as a contender for NZ #3

Unfortunately I felt Adamson was underwhelming, if ever a game was refereed by a scrum half on one side and a fly half on the other, this was it.
Red spot on, as was Beales yellow after.
I felt the Welsh player in the 2nd half should have seen red, it was a cheap shot and the offended Aussie should have seen yellow for the tackle that got him there. Never felt a comfortable watch as decisions seemed random at best.

I think you are spot on RCG. Felt Brace did a good job; maybe seemed very hard on England at times but the South African forwards were immense and forced a series of penalties from England, whose discipline at times let them down too. His calmness is impressive and he rarely seems to raise his voice. As to the match, what a game and in many ways surprising that England won after that torrid 2nd half.
Adamson seemed to struggle as you say, there is something about him which doesnít inspire confidence but canít put my finger on it. Maybe just inexperience?
And as to France and New Zealand, quelle match! France were at times back to their brilliant best, some scintillating rugby from both teams. And another imperious display from the excellent Wayne Barnes whose communication and explanations are second to none and who commands respect from the players. The gulf between him and Adamson was clear to see for anyone watching both games.

Well - What a day of Rugby!!
3 really interesting matches in their own right and 1 absolute belter of a game!!
Here's my assessment (for what it's worth).
Evans - Once again, cool calm and assured. Clearly the Wales number 1 and I fully expect him to get a 6N appointment. He should be really pleased with his performances.
Pickerill - Thought he performed admirably. Set his stall out early on and was extremely consistent in his decision making process. I agree, he is surely the NZ number 3. Good job overall!
Brace - A lot will be made of the sheer number of penalties awarded to SA. In the main, I had no issue with them BUT I am really surprised we didn't see cards earlier. Thought both YC's were correct and also thought SA were lucky to get away with IMHO another yellow card in the last minute. Overall, I thought he did well under immense pressure. He needed this game to really cement his place as one of the leading NH referees and I believe he actually passed the test overall.
Adamson - I think I mentioned before, this was going to be a HUGE match for Mike and a real step up. Crikey, he must have thought   coming off he had real baptism of fire. I have to say, whilst I applaud WR for moving on with the new breed, this appointment stuck out like a sore thumb and was always going to test the Scot and potentially cause issues so Joel and his team must have been prepared for any fall out. Well, it seems that the Aussies are unhappy with his performance and he has received a bit of a battering in the media! I don't think WR will hang him out to dry (like they have done to other officials previously), what the should do is really support Mike and continue to coach him through what will be a tough period for him mentally.
The game itself - So many talking points and once again Australian discipline let themselves down and really have themselves to blame.
The positives - I though Mike after the first 5 minutes (where he needed help from Raynal with the first big call) actually seemed cool calm and assured. He certainly was strong enough to stick with his decisions following the TMO reviews even when others (Raynal & Jonker) were trying to talk him out of some of them. The explanations given were clear for all to understand and actually the RC & YC in the first half were spot on!
The Wales try was correct in the second half and perfectly seen by MA.
Where I had issues - I think the 3rd & 4th TMO review should have been seen in real time by Mike. Far too much over reliance and interference from Jonker which actually caused a stop start game really. There was no real rhythm which was caused by the officiating team. This is an area where Mike has been criticised before in games and he needs to be more pro-active.
Both teams really tested Mike when talking to him. He should have been stronger in his approach with both captains.
Inconsistencies with tackles caused Mike an issue in the second half  (TMO review didn't help him either) and I didn't really agree with some of the decision making on his part or his thought process.
So, a mixed bag from the Scot - Not all bad with some positives and areas to work on. I think he will get a 6N appointment. I'm sure he has learn't a lot from the match.
Barnes - There was a reason Nigel Owens pointed out the need to keep experience in France 23. They only have Jaco & Wayne. I thought this showed exactly why Wayne needs to be involved and was appointed to this match. And what a match!! The stigma from 2007 has clearly gone and my goodness what a great example of how to referee a game of this nature. He was in total control from the off and unlike Mike Adamson, the players clearly recognised his vast experience and more importantly the understand what he's all about which says everything in modern rugby.
He wasn't flawless - I actually thought there were 2 talking points, that could have potentially given a different response if the result was a bit closer. Ultimately. these didn't affect the result. With the France 2nd try (I thought there was an obstruction leading up to it) and my goodness the 50/22 where NZ scored on first glance looked out. We didn't get any clear replays either. Pearce must have been 100% confident in that call. Ultimately, I think the TMO would have got involved with both if they were clear and obvious errors.
The YC was absolutely correct and no complaints really from NZ.
For me, it shows that he is desperately needed still on the big stage. I think he will get a 6N appointment (as it will send out the wrong message IMHO).
Another very good outing from the English team that contributed to a fantastic game of rugby.
I think overall this international window has seen some very impressive performances from a number of officials. WR must be pleased with the overall refereeing!
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BabyRef

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Re: Rugby Autumn Internationals
« Reply #27 on: Sun 21 Nov 2021 16:04 »
I thought both Brace and Adamson allowed too much dissent from captains - they were in their ear after almost every decision

Alfie75

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Re: Rugby Autumn Internationals
« Reply #28 on: Sun 21 Nov 2021 20:02 »
Just to add
Carley - Thought he had a very strong game today (probably the best I have seen him for a while). Got the RC card absolutely spot on too.
No problem with the use of the TMO - It was used wisely and decisions were made quickly with minimum of fuss.
Very clear with his communication to all players concerned.
Good job by the English team again today!

RCG

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Re: Rugby Autumn Internationals
« Reply #29 on: Sun 21 Nov 2021 20:26 »
I would agree. Thought he showed decent control, very consistent, clear on what he wanted, didnt overreact to Irish 6. Red card with no question (any English ref would def have red carded in Wales game)

The English refs definitely leading the way