RateTheRef

The images are not conclusive but if the arm is outstretched then the body is becoming bigger. Difficult scene but I suspect that the UEFA observer will back Oliver here.

It seems that Oliver's positioning is as good as it could be, however, he would not be able to see whether or not the arm was extended because he can't see through the player. The AR should have seen it but perhaps thought that everything was normal. You can't give what you can't see ---or have they changed that these days?

I have looked up various Russian media sites and even googled (in Russian) Oliver and 'lie detector', but have found nothing relevant.  Indeed, I found only one match report that even mentioned the hand-ball incident, and that merely noted that there was no VAR.   It is true that the Russians have a long and undistinguished tradition of conspiracy theories relating to adverse refereeing decisions: I once read a long and detailed explanation of why Graham Poll awarded a penalty against Russia in the closing stages of a World Cup qualifier; this worked only if you assumed that Mr Poll had an encyclopaedic knowledge of Russian politics.  On this occasion, however, I am inclined to think that the lie detector story is our old friend fake news. 

Difficult scene but I suspect that the UEFA observer will back Oliver here.

Well his first name is Vladimir but I hope you're right edy. 

I always appreciate a history lesson bmb.

Perhaps it was the mention of Russian politics that amused me when I saw the Observer's name, even though I did notice he was from Moldova.

Quote from: edy on Thu 15 Oct 2020 19:03

Difficult scene but I suspect that the UEFA observer will back Oliver here.

Well his first name is Vladimir but I hope you're right edy. 

I find it quite strange that the observer has less refereeing experience than the referee he assesses. For example Antonov had only a few Qualifiers without a Group stage match on the (old) UEFA Cup. His experience today would classify him as a 3rd Group referee.

Quote from: bmb on Fri 16 Oct 2020 23:38

Quote from: Ref Fan on Fri 16 Oct 2020 20:58

Quote from: edy on Thu 15 Oct 2020 19:03

Difficult scene but I suspect that the UEFA observer will back Oliver here.

Well his first name is Vladimir but I hope you're right edy. 

He's from Moldova where it is a fairly common name.  I doubt he would be allowed to be on the game if he is of ethnic Russian origin, same as Kovács István can't referee Hungary because although Romanian he is ethnic Hungarian. See history lesson below!

History Lesson! Moldova was part of the USSR/a satellite nation of the USSR as was the majority of the Balkan region. Having originally been under the rule of the Ottoman empire, it was ceded to Russia in the early 1800. It had a spell where it joined with a neighbouring state to form Romania in the 1850's. Prior to the Trianon treaty it chose to become an autonomous state of Russia before declaring independence and rejoining with Romania a year or 2 later, before Trianon was signed. Russia disputed this and in 1940 it was returned to being a Russian state under some treaty or pact. It remained as part of the USSR until it fell in 1991 and has been independent since.  It has an ethnic Russian population as well as ethnic Romanian, Polish, Bulgarian, Ukrainian, Belarusian & German populations. It is on friendly terms with Russia but also with Hungary and I believe the majority of the Balkan region. It's a small, friendly & inoffensive country trying to find it's own way after a few short years of indepence. /End of history lesson!

Thanks for that bmb. Last year I became friendly with a Hungarian crew member on a cruise ship because of my love for languages and we were also both football fans. He was from a small village and he was explaining to me about the different languages which were spoken and how this affected the various inhabitants of the village. It sounded quite scary when he told me about the environment in which he had grown up.
Apologies for going off topic.

The history and subsequent ethnic make up of all of the Balkan countries is fascinating. They have all been under one rule or another until the last 30 odd years whether it be the Ottoman Dynasty, Roman empire, or the USSR and various others in between and the borders have changed regularly leaving so many displaced groups across the region. Thankfully the borders are fairly stable now although there are still many border disputes alive! Each country has varying degrees of ethnic minorities from probably 4-5 of the surrounding countries, some integrate better than others. Hungary has a number of previously Germanic regions, including one area of Budapest. The further out you go near the borders the more diverse the ethnic make up can be, you can have a Germanic village, next door to a Croatian village and a Slovak village a few miles away, next door to a Romani (Roma not Romanian) village. Go 50 miles in the other direction and there can be a Serbian village near an Austrian village! Some still speak their ethnic languages, like the Hungarian ethnic populations in both Transylvania and Székely in Romania are Hungarian speakers for example. Some speak a mix of their ethnic language with the country they have ended up being a part of that has grown into a regional dialect. Most Hungarians would not understand Romani-Hungarian as one example - it a completely unique dialect made from Romani, Hungarian & Romanian, Romani from Romania would not understand it either, nor would Romanians.

The citizenship test in Hungary you have to know the history of the region right back as far as Árpád and the 7 chieftains riding on their horses into the Carpathian basin in 895! The Árpád dynasty and the Hungarian Royal family, through to the Ottoman empire, the Habsburg dynasty etc. With 1125 years of existence there are a lot of wars to learn about and the border changes were more frequent than my teeanger changes his socks! Just don't mention Trianon!

I don't know if it makes any difference, but Vladimir Yevgenyevich Antonov's full name suggests that he is probably an ethnic Russian.  And before 1992 he officiated as a Republic category referee in the lower tiers of the Soviet league system.  I suspect that his somewhat unexpected appointment is to be ascribed to logistical factors.   

His full name certainly does suggest ethnic Russian, I agree. I do not doubt his professionalism and I suspect if he was purely appointed for logistical reasons when ordinarily he may be prevented from being appointed due to ethnicity he'll no doubt face a degree of scrutiny from those higher up the ladder to ensure absolute fairness.