Author Topic: UEFA Champions League 2020/2021 appointments  (Read 33363 times)

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bmb

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I hope Hategan will be able to attend but issues relating to the Paris incident may persist and I believe he will need a new AR, as I assume the one involved will definitely be out?


Hategan is back domestically, for a while now, and doing just fine.  It was Sebi's last International match that night anyway so he was needing a new AR even without it happening.
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GingerReferee

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  GingerReferee mentions all 3 elite from Spain but I really can't see that happening; two maybe.

if only 2 go, for me i put all 3 just because i am not sure who would miss out, i certainly think Carlos Del Cerro will go but out of the other 2 persnally i would say Jesus Gil,
but if only 2  who would you say would go?

bmb

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  GingerReferee mentions all 3 elite from Spain but I really can't see that happening; two maybe.

if only 2 go, for me i put all 3 just because i am not sure who would miss out, i certainly think Carlos Del Cerro will go but out of the other 2 persnally i would say Jesus Gil,
but if only 2  who would you say would go?

Carlos del Cerro Grande gets bmb's vote! Then Jesús Gil Manzano.

Disclaimer: bmb may have different criteria to everyone else!



Haetagen from Romania

I'd rather see Kovács István given a chance ahead of Ovi Hategan, however realistically it is probably too soon for that & Hategan has been overall the better performer of the 2 in Europe, if I am honest.  I just so desperately want to see Kovács doing well. Maybe the next big tournament will be his time.
« Last Edit: Mon 08 Mar 2021 15:41 by bmb »
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DublinRef

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I hope Hategan will be able to attend but issues relating to the Paris incident may persist and I believe he will need a new AR, as I assume the one involved will definitely be out?


Hategan is back domestically, for a while now, and doing just fine.  It was Sebi's last International match that night anyway so he was needing a new AR even without it happening.

Was Sebi not FO on that match? I thought Hategan's AR1 was also under scrutiny for the language he used.

bmb

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I hope Hategan will be able to attend but issues relating to the Paris incident may persist and I believe he will need a new AR, as I assume the one involved will definitely be out?


Hategan is back domestically, for a while now, and doing just fine.  It was Sebi's last International match that night anyway so he was needing a new AR even without it happening.

Was Sebi not FO on that match? I thought Hategan's AR1 was also under scrutiny for the language he used.

You are of course right. Sebi was 4O not AR, my mistake. He's back refereeing domestically as well! Not sure if he will need a new AR but that's not a huge issue, Kassai & Clatts both changed their AR's easily enough when it was needed and I'm sure they're not the only ones.
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DublinRef

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I hope Hategan will be able to attend but issues relating to the Paris incident may persist and I believe he will need a new AR, as I assume the one involved will definitely be out?


Hategan is back domestically, for a while now, and doing just fine.  It was Sebi's last International match that night anyway so he was needing a new AR even without it happening.

Was Sebi not FO on that match? I thought Hategan's AR1 was also under scrutiny for the language he used.

You are of course right. Sebi was 4O not AR, my mistake. He's back refereeing domestically as well! Not sure if he will need a new AR but that's not a huge issue, Kassai & Clatts both changed their AR's easily enough when it was needed and I'm sure they're not the only ones.

I am glad that Sebi is back domestically. I'm sure that he went through a few weeks even months of torment over that incident and no doubt he will have further challenges to face in that regard. While I am in no way condoning what he said, I do accept that he didn't mean to cause offence and I don't think he is a racist and with those facts in mind I don't really think any significant punishment is warranted. Although I do see that UEFA will, quite rightly, want to be seen to have an absolute zero tolerance attitude towards racism in any event.

Regardless, in the context of this discussion - I think you make a good point, hopefully for Hategan replacing an AR if needed will not be a significant challenge.

edy

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Has it been established how many Referees are likely to go to Euro 2020?  I had a figure of 18 in mind but could be completely wrong.

Kuipers and Makkelie I agree are a likely duo from 1 country.  Germany possibly with two referees but would the second choice be preferable to Oliver on merit if only Germany or England had 1 representative?  GingerReferee mentions all 3 elite from Spain but I really can't see that happening; two maybe.

France will have Turpin for sure although Stephanie Frappart would be an interesting (political?) choice if two were to go.

Edy can probably advise on whether the selection is made primarily to include referees from as many countries as possible within certain ranking criteria or is strictly on merit? 

I am told that 18 referees will go to UEFA Euro. There are a few open spots.

I would say the Zwayer is probably out and Stieler is being pushed to get in. Hategan seems to be in danger after the incident on Paris (he was a lock before Christmas. Frappart will probably be there as well.

I do believe that the 4 big refereeing nations (FRA, ESP, GER, ENG) will have 2 referees there. ITA will only have Orsato.
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DublinRef

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I hope Hategan will be able to attend but issues relating to the Paris incident may persist and I believe he will need a new AR, as I assume the one involved will definitely be out?


Hategan is back domestically, for a while now, and doing just fine.  It was Sebi's last International match that night anyway so he was needing a new AR even without it happening.

Was Sebi not FO on that match? I thought Hategan's AR1 was also under scrutiny for the language he used.

You are of course right. Sebi was 4O not AR, my mistake. He's back refereeing domestically as well! Not sure if he will need a new AR but that's not a huge issue, Kassai & Clatts both changed their AR's easily enough when it was needed and I'm sure they're not the only ones.

I am glad that Sebi is back domestically. I'm sure that he went through a few weeks even months of torment over that incident and no doubt he will have further challenges to face in that regard. While I am in no way condoning what he said, I do accept that he didn't mean to cause offence and I don't think he is a racist and with those facts in mind I don't really think any significant punishment is warranted. Although I do see that UEFA will, quite rightly, want to be seen to have an absolute zero tolerance attitude towards racism in any event.

Regardless, in the context of this discussion - I think you make a good point, hopefully for Hategan replacing an AR if needed will not be a significant challenge.

Have just seen he has been banned - https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/sebastian-coltescu-ban-uefa-black-coach-1.5940892

ajb95

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Just based on the previous appointments as well as gut instinct of what UEFA have done or might do, I think the following will all go as referees:

I think most of the elite group will be picked so quite a lot of countries will have two refs.
So that will be:
Both Taylor and Oliver
Brych & zwayer from Germany
Lahoz & cerro Grande from Spain
Cakir from turkey
Hategan from Romania
Skomina from Slovenia
Dutch couple Kuipers & Makkelie
Orsato for Italy
Marciniak from Poland
Soares Dias from Portugal
Grinfeeld from Israel
And Turpin from France

I think Frappart will be picked as a political decision rather than a sporting one. Last chance for Zwayer before Steiler is favourited. The rest of the elite group will go as 4ths
« Last Edit: Mon 08 Mar 2021 17:59 by ajb95 »
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Readingfan

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After Netherlands, I think England should be in line for two referees if that happens above Germany and France (not sure about Spain.)

If Edy's right about 8 from Eng, , Fra, Spa and Ger going then if we presume the Netherlands has 2 as well that's 10 spots gone already, which I think might be a bit much.
If fit, I'm sure Skomina, Orsato, Marciniak, Cakir will go too and I would have said Hategan. So not too many spots left.

Having two refs from so many countries would certainly be a big change from the past - when it happened with Clattenburg/Atkinson in 2016 it felt very much the exception (and not sure it would have happened if Clattenburg had been FA's choice.)

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bmb

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Have just seen he has been banned - https://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/sebastian-coltescu-ban-uefa-black-coach-1.5940892

Shame - he'd not long been back and was doing well.  I wonder if he will call it a day. It was more a cultural thing than anything, he's certainly not racist. Central & Eastern Europe are not particularly PC by Western standards in any way, shape or form and overall not racist. There are of course exceptions to that, but then the West isn't a shining beacon in that respect either.
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bmb

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Hategan seems to be in danger after the incident on Paris (he was a lock before Christmas.

Kovács??
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edy

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Just based on the previous appointments as well as gut instinct of what UEFA have done or might do, I think the following will all go as referees:

I think most of the elite group will be picked so quite a lot of countries will have two refs.
So that will be:
Both Taylor and Oliver
Brych & zwayer from Germany
Lahoz & cerro Grande from Spain
Cakir from turkey
Hategan from Romania
Skomina from Slovenia
Dutch couple Kuipers & Makkelie
Orsato for Italy
Marciniak from Poland
Soares Dias from Portugal
Grinfeeld from Israel
And Turpin from France

I think Frappart will be picked as a political decision rather than a sporting one. Last chance for Zwayer before Steiler is favourited. The rest of the elite group will go as 4ths

I can't disagree with most of the names of your list. But IMO Stieler has a big chance of attending (remember he did a CL R16 and Zwayer only EL). Moreover Skomina is injured and I don't think that he will be ready until then. Vincic is a good alternative (he did a CL R16 debut).
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ajb95

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Just based on the previous appointments as well as gut instinct of what UEFA have done or might do, I think the following will all go as referees:

I think most of the elite group will be picked so quite a lot of countries will have two refs.
So that will be:
Both Taylor and Oliver
Brych & zwayer from Germany
Lahoz & cerro Grande from Spain
Cakir from turkey
Hategan from Romania
Skomina from Slovenia
Dutch couple Kuipers & Makkelie
Orsato for Italy
Marciniak from Poland
Soares Dias from Portugal
Grinfeeld from Israel
And Turpin from France

I think Frappart will be picked as a political decision rather than a sporting one. Last chance for Zwayer before Steiler is favourited. The rest of the elite group will go as 4ths

I can't disagree with most of the names of your list. But IMO Stieler has a big chance of attending (remember he did a CL R16 and Zwayer only EL). Moreover Skomina is injured and I don't think that he will be ready until then. Vincic is a good alternative (he did a CL R16 debut).

Thanks Edy. Shame about skomina as he is in top 4 refs in europe for me
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DublinRef

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Incredible matches for both referees last night, very very challenging (particularly for Kuipers).

It would take a long time to write a full analysis and one finds themselves at a lose at where to start. Cakir with the incredible VAR sequence, Kuipers with an extremely challenging ET.

On the whole I think both did very very well. Technically some mistakes but to keep full control at all times is to their credit, I think many referees would have lost control of both matches, especially Juve - Porto in ET.

Looking at the big incidents in both games -

Cakir VAR sequence - I'd advise everyone to watch this, very complicated scenario lots of points to take from it. From the replays I saw no clear and obvious mistake to disallow the goal, but Cakir was shown some other angles it seemed. Clear PK for Dortmund before this, difficult to detect as Cakir was likely looking at the cross so correct to award a penalty here and disallow the goal after OFR IMO. Obviously the re take correct and I thought he handled the afters very well with two correct YC.

Maybe VAR Irrati could have avoided a lot of controversy by simply allowing the first goal or even better if he had intervened before the goal was scored to advise Cakir about the penalty. Tough choices though and technically I think he was totally correct.

Second penalty he awarded also correct IMO.

Kuipers - Porto penalty IMO quite soft but not wrong. For me no penalty but no way VAR should intervene. I think Juventus had a very good penalty claim when the goalkeeper challenged Ronaldo. For me this was a penalty but again probably not VAR stuff (but close). Finally the red card was fine for me and all other penalty claims were correctly judge IMO.

On the whole I think while they didn't get everything right both Cakir and Kuipers showed why, even in the twilight of their international careers, they are two of Europe's best, strong, composed and calm at all times.
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