Author Topic: UEFA Champions League 2020/2021 appointments  (Read 33426 times)

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DublinRef

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RCG I think one list is a good idea, and I don’t think given her experience Frappart would be in the top 10/15(?) First group refs or in the elite group needed to be appointed a CL game.

Again I feel I need to emphasise I think Frappart is a very capable referee who given the appropriate experience could well be able to take charge of knockout CL games and beyond. However it seems at the moment she does not need the same experience as her male counterparts to be awarded the same level of appointment.

The difficulty in this, I accept, is to what extent her experience in the women’s game counts in the men’s game.

Regardless I wish her the very best of luck, I do hope she inspires more women to look at refereeing as an option and I’m sure she will have a good game.
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Hendo

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Is the opposite route available to men? Or are all the appointments in the Womens CL female? If not, should it not be one list?

Fairness and equality are things to strive for. This appointment, based on the number and profile of the games done, is neither of these.

Football has always been political and 'face-fits' appointments are nothing new.

Indeed, look no further than Stuart Attwell........

edy

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Frappart's appointment has only political value.

She had 2 EL matches, 1 NL and all 3 were of low difficulty.

Now UEFA wants to makes history again. And they will also use the next step: Euro 2021.
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GingerReferee

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Indeed, look no further than Stuart Attwell........

I agree they used him a lot last season but this season they have overlooked him I understand maybe pawson and kavangh but not by Madley and coote in the internationals
Hopefully he can get reintroduced on Thursday but I can't see it happening

Edited to fix the quote thingamajigga, bmb
« Last Edit: Mon 30 Nov 2020 20:16 by bmb »

bmb

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IF AN ADMIN CAN UPDATE MY POST WITH THE OBSRVERS AND DELEGATES ID APPRECIATE IT!

No! You forgot my purple colour in your post!

PS Someone nicer than me seems to have done it anyway!
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bmb

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Is the opposite route available to men? Or are all the appointments in the Womens CL female? If not, should it not be one list?

Fairness and equality are things to strive for. This appointment, based on the number and profile of the games done, is neither of these.

Football has always been political and 'face-fits' appointments are nothing new.



Not sure I agree with one list.  The gulf between the women's and men's game is huge, especially when you compare some of the smaller nations women's league to the bigger nations men's league. It can be as much as going from refereeing Poole Town v Dorchester in one game to Juventus v Barcelona in the next game, no referee should face that huge of a gap, male or female. It is difficult enough for the male referees who referee the smaller nations domestic leagues week in week out to bridge the gap - you'd not take a UK league 2 referee and plonk them on a CL game but that is in effect what you are doing with some of the smaller nation referees.

We have some amazing female referees out there at National level in the women's game but would they be as good in the men's leagues? Some would, some would not as the gap would be too wide for their capabilities.  When you look at the worst performers from the last WWC they tended to be the ladies from smaller nations with as yet pretty undeveloped domestic women's leagues & they struggled at times.  They would simply crash and burn in the top flight men's game and I don't want to see any referee simply set up for failure.

I think for a woman to be considered for the CL, EL etc in the men's game then they need to be refereeing their domestic topflight mens league every week, on the same score I think any male referee who wants to referee in the women's CL, EL & International tournaments needs to be refereeing their domestic top flight women's league. The whole game is different, generally speaking the women's league is more technical and the men's league more physical. Broadly speaking and not true of every single club/league I know but I am sure anyone who watches both will understand what I mean.

I'd keep 2 lists but the changes I would make to them would not be down to the sex of the referee but one list for the women's leagues and one for the men's leagues and equal opportunities for referees male & female (biologically or otherwise) to be on either or even both lists dependent upon the domestic leagues they primarily referee at and their own abilities.
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DublinRef

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Is the opposite route available to men? Or are all the appointments in the Womens CL female? If not, should it not be one list?

Fairness and equality are things to strive for. This appointment, based on the number and profile of the games done, is neither of these.

Football has always been political and 'face-fits' appointments are nothing new.



Not sure I agree with one list.  The gulf between the women's and men's game is huge, especially when you compare some of the smaller nations women's league to the bigger nations men's league. It can be as much as going from refereeing Poole Town v Dorchester in one game to Juventus v Barcelona in the next game, no referee should face that huge of a gap, male or female. It is difficult enough for the male referees who referee the smaller nations domestic leagues week in week out to bridge the gap - you'd not take a UK league 2 referee and plonk them on a CL game but that is in effect what you are doing with some of the smaller nation referees.

We have some amazing female referees out there at National level in the women's game but would they be as good in the men's leagues? Some would, some would not as the gap would be too wide for their capabilities.  When you look at the worst performers from the last WWC they tended to be the ladies from smaller nations with as yet pretty undeveloped domestic women's leagues & they struggled at times.  They would simply crash and burn in the top flight men's game and I don't want to see any referee simply set up for failure.

I think for a woman to be considered for the CL, EL etc in the men's game then they need to be refereeing their domestic topflight mens league every week, on the same score I think any male referee who wants to referee in the women's CL, EL & International tournaments needs to be refereeing their domestic top flight women's league. The whole game is different, generally speaking the women's league is more technical and the men's league more physical. Broadly speaking and not true of every single club/league I know but I am sure anyone who watches both will understand what I mean.

I'd keep 2 lists but the changes I would make to them would not be down to the sex of the referee but one list for the women's leagues and one for the men's leagues and equal opportunities for referees male & female (biologically or otherwise) to be on either or even both lists dependent upon the domestic leagues they primarily referee at and their own abilities.

Great post bmb, you make a good point about two lists I think you are correct.

If one list was created for all competitions, like you point out I think, the majority of the elite and first group referees would be men. Should the principle be best referees for best games (I know its not exactly this atm!!) then women's CL would end up being refereed by men if both competitions were treated equally. This would lead to less sonorous games for female referees and probably less chance to develop.

So I think your solution is best at the moment, one list for women's, one for men's and the referees on then either list can be either male or female.

The one list situation assumes an idyllic situation whereby there are enough women refereeing at the top level across European leagues so that they can "compete" for want of a better word with the numbers of men. I am not at all saying they should ever have a quota of 50/50 men/women but hopefully in an environment where more women progress, on merit, to the top levels, you would get a good mix to the point where neither gender is being disadvantaged by being on a single list based on ability.
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edy

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bmb

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Ferencvaros v Barcelona
Referee: Aleksei Kulbakov BLR
Assistant referees: Dmitri Zhuk BLR; Oleg Maslyanko BLR
Fourth official: Viktor Shimusik BLR
Video Assistant Referee: Vitali Meshkov RUS
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Sergei Ivanov RUS
UEFA Referee Observer: Lutz-Michael Fröhlich (GER)
UEFA Delegate: Peter Oskam (NED)

Decent performance from this ref tonight. Suitably authoritative but was happy to just let the game flow around him. Used common sense a couple of time for minor fouls, no qualms about getting the cards out on the rare times they were deserved. He was aided by 2 very competent ARs. Penalty against Fradi was an excellent spot considering his position, the speed at which he gave it suggested it was his call and not someone whispering in his ear. Nothing wrong with his position but he was directly behind the players as is often the way heading into the penalty area.  Frimpong completely floored a Barca player, absolutely zero contact with the ball at all. As stonewalled as they come. Whist managing to remain very much in the background he had a very calming presence and was in complete control of the game from start to finish.  Would love to see him in a more competitive game at some point - 1st half in particular I think the only time Fradi touched the ball was to pick it out of the net or to restart the game having done so! The gulf between the leagues was really clear tonight but Fradi had a good go in the 2nd half. Pleased they just kept going for it and didn't adopt silly constant foul tactics, I can respect that effort from them.

Team ref can go home with their heads held high after that performance. Literally my only complaint was the sugar plum fairy look - the macron kits are honestly the worst ones I have ever seen!
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Acme Thunderer

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By accounts on the BBC website, Frappert had a good game at Juventus last night.

jad

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That is what I gathered from the Italian media.

Incidentally, I am not certain that the appointments of Mme Frappart and Ms Monzul were purely political.  I wonder if they were not an attempt to address a problem that UEFA may be facing, namely a shortage of suitable referees.  The countries that provide provide match officials for the group stage of the Champions' League generally have 7-10 FIFA referees, not all of whom are necessarily ready to receive appointments at this level.  Each appointment takes up 3-4 referees, depending on who is acting as AVAR.  In addition some countries supply additional video assistant referees to 'help out' those countries that do not use VAR.  Add to this the Europa League, and it doesn't take many appointments to use up a country's entire contingent of suitably qualified referees.  This year there is the additional problem of Covid and the consequent travel restrictions (which probably accounts for the almost total absence of Russian officials).  In these circumstances it would not seem unreasonable for UEFA to add to its pool of available referees women who have experience of officiating both at international level and in the top tier of their respective domestic competitions.  And if my suspicion is correct, then it would be legitimate to accuse those countries that for whatever reason fail to take up their full allocation of FIFA places of not pulling their weight. 
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referee12

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Are we going to see Oliver tierney Taylor, attwell, madley or kavangth in the last rd of group games this week or not?

DublinRef

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Are we going to see Oliver tierney Taylor, attwell, madley or kavangth in the last rd of group games this week or not?

I think we definitely won't see Atwell, Tierney or Madley as referees this week in the CL, maybe FO or VAR.

I'd like to think Kavanagh won't get a CL game but given the name of a Polish referee who is rumoured to be getting a debut this week maybe anything is possible...

I think Oliver could get a big game this match week in group B - it will be interesting to see what match, if any, he gets. I think it could be an indication of how UEFA view him at the moment.
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GingerReferee

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Hi guys here are the UCL appointments for Tuesday
Can someone please complete the rest of the delegates and observers

Also Tobias Stieler what a game for him and yes Ovidu Haetagan does have another game

Lazio vs Club Brugge
Referee Cüneyt Çakır (TUR)
Assistants: Bahattin Duran (TUR) , Tarik Ongun (TUR)
Fourth official Abdulkadir Bitigen (TUR)
VAR Hüseyin Göçek (TUR)
AVAR Mete Kalkavan (TUR)
OBSERVER Jan Willem Van Dop (NED)
DELEGATE Nikolay Ivanov (RUS)

Zenit vs Dortmund
Referee István Kovács (ROU)
Assistant referees Vasile Florin Marinescu (ROU); Ovidiu Artene (ROU)
Video Assistant Referee Jochem Kamphuis (NED)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee Kevin Blom (NED)
Fourth official Marius Avram (ROU)

Rennes vs Sevilla
Referee Bartosz Frankowski (POL)
Assistant referees Marcin Boniek (POL); Jakub Winkler (POL)
Video Assistant Referee Szymon Marciniak (POL)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee Paweł Raczkowski (POL)
Fourth official Daniel Stefanski (POL)

Chelsea Cs Krasonador
Referee Pavel Královec (CZE)
Assistant referees Jan Paták (CZE); Tomáš Mokrusch (CZE)
Video Assistant Referee Paolo Valeri (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
Fourth official Miroslav Zelinka (CZE)

Dynamo Kiev vs Ferencvaros
Referee Andreas Ekberg (SWE)
Assistant referees Mehmet Culum (SWE); Stefan Hallberg (SWE)
Video Assistant Referee Christian Dingert (GER)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee Daniel Siebert (GER)
Fourth official Kristoffer Karlsson (SWE)

Barcelona vs Juventus
Referee Tobias Stieler (GER)
Assistant referees Mike Pickel (GER); Christian Gittelmann (GER)
Video Assistant Referee Bastian Dankert (GER)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee René Rohde (GER)
Fourth official Serdar Gözübüyük (NED)

PSG vs Istanbul
Referee Ovidiu Haţegan (ROU)
Assistant referees Octavian Șovre (ROU); Sebastian Gheorghe (ROU)
Video Assistant Referee Marco Di Bello (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee Maurizio Mariani (ITA)
Fourth official  Sebastian Colţescu (ROU)

Leipzig vs Manchester United
Referee Antonio Mateu Lahoz (ESP)
Assistant referees Pau Cebrián Devís (ESP); Roberto del Palomar (ESP)
Video Assistant Referee Alejandro Hernández (ESP)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee Ricardo de Burgos (ESP)
Fourth official Fabio Verissimo (POR)


edited to tidy up and add colour! bmb

« Last Edit: Mon 07 Dec 2020 19:00 by bmb »

dave26

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Surprised that Utd have Lahoz again I’m sure had us earlier in group stage match is this normal or a rare occurrence ?