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Messages - ARF

Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 ... 14
61
General Discussion / Re: Juventus v Salernitana
« on: Mon 12 Sep 2022 18:10 »
Quote from: Affy_Moose on Mon 12 Sep 2022 15:41
You're of course correct with your points about Law, but I have to disagree with your interpretation.

It's absolutely not clear at all that the goalkeeper hasn't been impacted.  I've attached a still image which shows the goalkeeper set on the correct foot, and then making no movement (I appreciate the picture quality is poor, but the point is made).  As an official, we have to be absolutely sure the goalkeeper hasn't been impacted, and I can't say I see this at all.  A very clear offside decision in my opinion.
That's completely the wrong way round, both in terms of how we come to decisions as officials, and how VAR is supposed to work*.

We give decisions based on evidence, not the lack of evidence to the contrary. If Player A punches Player B behind your back, you cannot send him off for it as you have not witnessed it. You can't decide to dismiss him based on gut feeling, unless someone can provide proof that he didn't do it.

As for VAR protocol, the on-field decision is that it's a goal, so therefore it must be a clear and obvious error for VAR to recommend a review.
Quote
3. The original decision given by the referee will not be changed unless the video review clearly shows that the decision was a 'clear and obvious error'.

As far as I can see, that still image gives a false impression of what has happened, because the goalkeeper is still moving to his right after Milik has already headed the ball, meaning his weight is transferring onto his right leg, and he can't push off on his left leg. By the time his feet are set, he knows he's not getting there, hence the lack of movement.

However, even though I don't believe Bonucci attempting to play the ball has affected the goalkeeper at all, had the on-field decision been offside (ignoring the defender out wide playing him onside), I'd still argue that the video doesn't clearly show that the decision was a clear and obvious error.


*Yes, I realise this is very much a theory vs reality argument about VAR

62
General Discussion / Re: Juventus v Salernitana
« on: Mon 12 Sep 2022 09:32 »
Quote from: Scally Bob on Mon 12 Sep 2022 07:14
The decision to disallow the goal looks correct in Law as the player who appears to be offside clearly attempts to head the ball.
Quote
A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched
by a team-mate is only penalised on becoming involved in active play by:
• interfering with play by playing or touching a ball passed or touched by
a team-mate or
• interfering with an opponent by:
• preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by
clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
• challenging an opponent for the ball or
•
clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts
on an opponent or
•
making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an
opponent to play the ball
It's not an offside offence just to attempt to play the ball, the action has to impact on an opponent. Given that the goalkeeper doesn't appear to make any adjustment due to Bonucci attempting to play the ball, and other than a vague arm in the air just after the ball goes in there doesn't seem to be any appeal whatsoever, I am confident that Bonucci being there hasn't affected him at all.

63
General Discussion / Re: P Tierney - Chelsea vs Leicester
« on: Sun 28 Aug 2022 11:18 »
Clear foul by Tielemans for the penalty IMO. You can't use your shoulder to take someone out below waist height

Obvious cautions both times for Gallagher.

I agree with the foul called against Barnes on Mendy for the disallowed goal - Barnes has moved into Mendy in the first place in order to block him.

64
General Discussion / Re: Man City v C Palace
« on: Sun 28 Aug 2022 10:35 »
Quote from: ajb95 on Sat 27 Aug 2022 18:19
Can someone explain why this is not a goal for Palace
https://twitter.com/utdbradleyy/status/1563542871445483527?s=21&t=3-n0prkJGQMtzXFj-9ohJQ
An indirect free kick is awarded if a player:
- prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from the hands or kicks or attempts to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it

65
General Discussion / Re: J GILLETT - Newcastle v Man City
« on: Mon 22 Aug 2022 09:48 »
Quote from: Microscopist on Mon 22 Aug 2022 08:41
https://twitter.com/Ben_Islington/status/1561432796538748929
Fine margins - first incident red downgraded to Yellow after VAR intervened; second incident Yellow upgraded to Red after VAR intervened.  RTR opinion divided on both incidents.
They are not identical challenges. Allan's was made with more force, it was straight-legged, leading/making contact with the studs. Trippier's was less force, not straight-legged, and not lead/making contact with the studs. One was serious foul play, one was just reckless. That being said, I'm not sure VAR should have intervened on either, as I'd argue neither original decision was clearly and obviously wrong.

66
General Discussion / Re: Forest v West Ham - R Jones
« on: Wed 17 Aug 2022 09:20 »
Quote from: Leggy on Wed 17 Aug 2022 08:33
What does the Law ask us to sanction - intent or outcome?  (Genuine question, I am not trying to be a smart a$$!).
Outcome - the sending off offence is denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity, not intending to deny an obvious goalscoring opportunity. If we sanctioned based on intent, a defender who handles a shot that still goes in should still be sent off, as they intended to commit DOGSO.

67
General Discussion / Re: Changes to Law 11 - Deliberate Play
« on: Thu 28 Jul 2022 11:06 »
Quote
‘Deliberate play’ is when a player has control of the ball with the possibility of:
passing the ball to a team-mate; or
gaining possession of the ball; or
clearing the ball (e.g. by kicking or heading it).
Anyone else slightly confused as to how you can have control of the ball without being in possession of it?

68
General Discussion / Re: Retirement
« on: Tue 21 Jun 2022 17:35 »
Been appointed as SG2 Manager apparently

69
General Discussion / Re: Danny Makkelie
« on: Thu 02 Jun 2022 10:47 »
Didn't see much of the game so I can't comment on his overall performance, however I thought McGinn was lucky not to be sent off for the foul he was cautioned for.

70
General Discussion / Re: C TURPIN - The Champions League Final
« on: Sun 29 May 2022 09:15 »
Quote from: bruntyboy on Sun 29 May 2022 00:14
Quote from: TheThingFromLewes on Sat 28 May 2022 21:25
Interesting VAR scenario just before half time and the disallowed goal by Benzema.

Grandad Walton with the perfect legislative interpretation.

The second Liverpool player might have deflected the ball to Benzema but a Liverpool player deliberately kicked it in the first place. The Madrid player running in didn't even kick the ball.
Valverde definitely plays the ball. Konate and Fabinho have both already committed themselves before Valverde plays the ball off them, so IMO you can count the touches as deflections.

71
General Discussion / Re: Martin Atkinson & Stuart Attwell - Southampton v Liverpool
« on: Wed 18 May 2022 15:22 »
Quote from: jacksamuel21 on Tue 17 May 2022 20:49
Atkinson joining Moss on the time to retire list
one free kick not given and now it's "time to retire". Embarrassing.

72
General Discussion / Re: Darren England- Newcastle Vs Arsenal
« on: Tue 17 May 2022 09:31 »
Quote from: bg9 on Mon 16 May 2022 21:23
Superb to see Darren and Dan between them give a foul throw, something that goes un-noticed far too often in the premier League
Not sure it was a foul throw mind you

73
General Discussion / Re: Moaning managers like Mikel Arteta make life even harder for referees…
« on: Mon 16 May 2022 23:30 »
Quote from: TheThingFromLewes on Mon 16 May 2022 23:04
Thank god Steve Evans isn’t in the PL….
I certainly won't be thanking any higher power(s) until that odious individual is no longer involved in football at any level!

74
General Discussion / Re: Mike Dean 100 red cards.
« on: Sun 15 May 2022 14:34 »
Quote from: TheThingFromLewes on Sat 14 May 2022 13:26
One that stood out for me was when he red carded a Charlton player I think being stretchered off. How humiliating!
The best bit about that is that I saw an interview with the player a while ago (I forget who it is) where he admitted that he was only pretending to be injured in the hope of possibly avoiding the red! If I remember rightly he even said to keep up pretenses he left the ground using crutches

75
General Discussion / Re: Arsenal v Leeds- Chris Kavanagh
« on: Mon 09 May 2022 09:50 »
Quote from: Deanspen on Sun 08 May 2022 21:07
It was a completely reckless challenge and red  all day long.
Make your mind up...

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