RateTheRef

Except I wonder are they ? Now there is specialism for the roles of referee and AR I think a good case could be made for saying that the persons with the flags are not referees but following a different craft. If a referee goes down injured it isn't one of the ARs who steps into the role but the 4th Official. So, if anything they are Referee's Assistants but much better to be given their own style, title and dignity of Linos or Linespersons.

At the top level, I would agree with you that their role is a "lining" specialism.

At most levels of the game (where the players are fortunate enough to have three match officials), the senior AR would take over in case of need.

Maybe we should call the specialists:  Professional Linos and the remainder Assistant Referees.  Better suggested titles for the specialists welcomed!

Quote from: TheThingFromLewes on Mon 20 Mar 2023 22:13

Quote from: bmb on Mon 20 Mar 2023 21:46

Personally I hope it is season over for both of them.

I would go as far to suggest that Fulham should get rid of Mitrovic in the summer…. I wouldn’t have any problem with that.

We went from being passionless and rolling over and dying under Parker, to being a real team with passion under Silva. Yes, we went too far but I'd rather what we have now, than what we had under Parker. This was Mitro's first ever red card for Fulham, let's not go overboard?

It might be his first red card for Fulham, but it is for violent conduct to a match official, fruity language, aggressive gestures all topped of with a failure to promptly leave the field of play.  Its clear who has already gone overboard and any sanction that permits him back onto the field of play this season would - in my opinion - be too lenient.

Quote from: Leggy on Sun 19 Mar 2023 19:29

First point to make is that I am very pleased that CK dealt with the Fulham manager and captain according to Law.  I sincerely hope that the proverbial book is thrown at both and that long bans follow - along with a clear message that the same will follow for anyone else taking the came course of action.

My second point (and I suspect that this is going to be less well received) is that, like a couple of other correspondents on this forum, I believe that the correct decision should have been given in real time by CK.  And, whilst I have no way of proving it, had this happened the subsequent furore would not have happened.

To illustrate, imagine that this is an FA Cup tie from a few years ago and one of England's top referees has to use his skill, nous and experience to correctly make the big calls.  On seeing what transpired, he whistles, awards a penalty and quickly shows the red card to the offender.  There will be protests, but nothing of this magnitude.

Fast forward to today, I believe that CK has a good clear view of the incident but is not 100% certain (when is anyone 100% certain??).  He knows he has the VAR "safety net" so gives nothing.  He could have given the penalty / red card and he would still have had the same safety net, but I have long believed that VAR is emaciating our top referees and many are too timid to make the big calls, relying on VAR to do that for them.

None of the above is anything close to an excuse for the subsequent behaviour, but our top referees have got where they are today without VAR and VAR is changing the way they officiate, and not for the better.

The reality doesn't back up that view though.  For all he had an excellent game, the fact that VAR corrected the penalty decision means he will be given a 7.9 for an incorrect key match decision.  No referee is going to willingly / knowingly not make a big call because they know they can reply on VAR, as they know a 7.9 will be forthcoming if they do.

It took me several replays to be sure it was intentional handling, and it was really the angle from behind the goal that made my mind up.  Chris Kavanagh got one view, from the worst possible angle, and was looking through much of Willian's torso, there is no way he could be 100% sure from the view he had.

Fair enough, for what it is worth, my first instinct was that it was handball.  My view was the live TV angle which was different from CKs, which might make your point.  I still firmly believe that - pre-VAR - he would have awarded the penalty - the contact looked all wrong.  We can agree to disagree.

What is emerging is that the Fulham management team had already pre-judged CK, entering the game with an "agenda" ("Our story with CK this season has been tough for us") going back to a game in October.  If a referee went to a club with such an agenda there would be a furore. 

Silva also demonstrated a degree of stupidly by adding (about his own red card):  "I am not going to lie. I didn't say he was a really nice guy and the decision was fair. But he didn't hear me."  Even if this is true (which I doubt) does that make it OK to abuse a referee if they cannot hear it?

Once again a Premier League manager has avoided difficult questions about his side's performance by bleating about the match officials.

Wolves could have won that game if:
~  Their defenders could mark attackers at corners.
~  Their attackers were a bit more effective in front of goal.

They (most likely) would have only been 3-2 down if the aggrieved player had at least adhered to the under 8's instruction of playing to the whistle.  Its not like they are shy in sharing their "opinions" with the referee after the fact.  If you stop playing anticipating a whistle and one if not forthcoming, don't blame anyone else.

Quote from: RCG on Tue 14 Mar 2023 18:44

Mr Tomlin was quite the joker. Mr Penton, much quieter, both v likeable

I know Steve Tomlin very well… a firefighter by trade.

When I was a young lad he’d always get me autographs of all the officials he worked with.

I have a pristine autograph from Victor Callow when they did a match at Spurs.

Steve also did a cup final at Wembley in 1999 with Heibron.

His work meant that he was early on the scene of the Brighton Bombing in 1984 and helped to rescue a number of the victims.  As a referee he always had a smile on his face and a positive attitude.  His spell on the FL middle was due reward for persistence throughout a long career.  I lined with him and for him on many enjoyable occasions.

All three referees engaged in the Sunday FA Cup quarter-finals are being utilised in the Premier League on Saturday.  Two are fourth officials and one is a VAR.  I can live with the VAR appointment, but - for Gillet and Robinson - they will spend the day before the biggest domestic appointment of their respective careers to date baby-sitting the benches and hoping that the referee does not get injured.  Is it not disrespectful to the FA Cup quarter finals to treat them in this way?

I thought Jones was excellent just like John Brooks was aswell earlier , no problem at all with the penalty clear trip and very clumsy by Olise and he knew it which is why he didn’t complain and just walked away

Brooks and Jones have certainly stepped up and improved enormously especially since Webb has taken over , it seems Webb is certainly trying to get the best out of all the referees , I hope Bramhall gets another chance as he seems to be out of favour

I only saw bits of this game, choosing to watch England's terrible performance at the 15-a-side game instead.  My mistake.

After about 54 minutes Robert Jones awarded a free-kick to City on the edge of the Palace box.  The time elapsed between the award of the free-kick and the kick being taken was two minutes and eighteen seconds.  I know its a bit geeky, but I got fed up waiting and replayed to find out.

There were, at least, four "committee meetings" before the action resumed:#
1. A meeting between the referee and a sizable delegation of Palace player to determine whether the free-kick decision was correct (it was).
2. A meeting between an equally sizable delegation of City player to determine whether the offence had taken place inside or outside the penalty area.  This was despite this being automatically checked by VAR (the innovation that was supposed to eliminate such meetings).
3. A further meeting over Mr. Jones' estimation of ten yards.
4. A final meeting over the location of the attacking City player who were near the defensive wall.

Apart from the fact that was over two minutes almost certainly not added onto the end of the half; each one of the "meetings" involved multiple players and could have been treated as dissent.  I am not saying that every meeting attendee should have been cautioned; but this approach to "managing the game" has lead to this nonsense.

This is not a slight on Robert Jones - he is doing what his paymasters require - (or even the players involved) because you could find similar examples in pretty much every premier league game.

It is, however, an excellent example of where the game has gone and where it is heading if the game's top referees have to do the job with at least one hand tied behind their back.

In Arsenals game against Sporting Gabi Martinelli got booked for a foul on the Sporting keeper, then VAR looked at it for mistaken identity, I didn’t think VAR looked at yellows or is it different in UEFA competitions

I thought VAR could look at all cases of mistaken identity ... but I could be mistaken!