RateTheRef

D Axcell – Millwall v Bristol Rovers, May 1993

So this was a "double last" as it was Millwall's final game at the old Den.  David was joined by Colin Henderson and John Smythe on the lines for his final game (plus me on the Boards).

The game was interrupted by a couple of "good natured" pitch invasions and ended a few minutes early after another.  I distinctly remember Millwall 'keeper Casey Keller trying to reach the safety of the players' tunnel and finally doing so wearing nothing more than a jock-strap - the rest of his kit falling victim to souvenir hunters!  I still used the dressing room towel from that game in my gym kit until about two years ago when Mrs Leggy insisted it would disintegrate if it went through the washing machine again and it was finally retired.

From the BBC Sport Website:


"Too much whistle?

With officials worldwide looking to tidy up the breakdown, a long-standing area of concern for the game, a high penalty count was inevitable.

The games at Harlequins, Exeter and Bristol especially were punctuated by the referee's whistle as players struggled to adapt to new interpretations, leading to a few disjointed spectacles.

"I think the referees have wanted to make a mark, and we have to work with them," said Diamond.

New Leicester head coach Steve Borthwick also refused to complain after his side haemorrhaged penalties - 22 in all - in their defeat at Sandy Park, putting it down to some "over-zealous" players keen to impress, while Quins head of rugby Paul Gustard said preparing for the tweak in the officiating was a major focus of the lockdown.

"We've had four referees in [to training] over the past two weeks," he said.

But while players will have suffered both physically and technically from a lack of pre-season games, it is also the same for the officials.

"Don't forget the referees are no different to us; they are getting back to refereeing regularly. This is very much their 'pre-season' as well," added Baxter."


I nearly put this in "non-footy" but it is about football because this an attitude / reaction that is almost universally absent in football.

What do we need to do to change attitudes and reactions?

So, Mr Taylor will go down in history as the first (only?) referee to issue a 2nd yellow card in two FA Cup finals.   And I seem to recall that the one to Moses for an alleged dive in 2017 was considered dubious.

Moses' dive would only have been dubious in a swimming pool.  On the football field, it was a "stick on" yellow card.  That was the general view of the Chelsea fans I was sat around at the 2017 cup final.

Quote from: Maltese Falcon on Thu 23 Jul 2020 08:50

Reading the above discussion has got me wondering whether there is (or should be) a similar structure in place at National List Level, to that lower down the pyramid ... specifically, from personal experience, at Level 3.

At this Level, if any official has not featured in the Top 40% of the bandings for three consecutive seasons, then they are in the frame for demotion.  This ensures that that those 'scraping by' each year, without showing any indication of the talent to progress upwards, will not be allowed to 'clog up' the system.

It's harsh, but IMO fair

It's far from fair.

If a referee is the 41st best out of 100 at a particular level, that is something he/she can be reasonably pleased with and he/she deserves to continue at that level. Those referees who are not thrusting for promotion can often be relied on to provide a good solid, empathic performance to the benefit of the game. Plenty of aspiring referees have been so keen to showcase their "talents" to the detriment of the game.

Football does not exist simply to provide a pathway for ambitious referees.

Agree.  And football needs the "foot soldier" referees to keep the show on the road while the superstars briefly show us their stardust before moving on to higher and better(?) things.

New clarification for handball next season should help a bit although I'm sure there will still be times the pictures are inconclusive.

Martin Atkinson was never going to look at the monitor for the disallowed goal this season under PGMO directives but the point about being able to explain to players is a good one - I was watching Inside Video Review recently and by going to the monitor for penalty encroachment the referee was able to explain to the players exactly where the goalkeeper was positioned - about 4 mins 30 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W__1pVN3EdY

I think Jon Moss reversing the Aston Villa penalty decision was one of the best VAR decisions in the PL this season and an example of why I don't think a strict time limit would work because it took a bit of time to find the best camera angle to show it.

There will still be doubt / controversy next season.  As the "line" is not drawn people sill see an incident and some will say it is one side of the "tee-shirt line" and other will call it the other way.  Its the same with offside - if you give the attacker (say) six inches of leeway, then there will always be an offside where the attacker is 6.01 inches offside.

Wherever you draw the line - unless you draw an actual and real line - there will be controversy.

Quote from: rustyref on Fri 10 Jul 2020 22:30

Quote from: Bielsa’s Bucket on Fri 10 Jul 2020 22:04

I think it’s time for him to step down standards are nowhere near the level they should be. The running of VAR is a prime example of this. It has been nothing short of an absolute embarrassment. One of if not the best league in the world and some of the worst officials. The appointments are a prime example of this absolutely shambolic. I think they need a well respected ex official someone like Webb but he’s unlikely to with his role in the MLS. Or another option could be Mark Halsey someone who was very well respected by fans, managers and players alike and who has previously said on Twitter he would consider taking the role if offered.

After the public attacks Halsey has made on some of the SG1 referees there is absolutely zero chance of him getting the role should it ever become available, even less so since he teamed up with Keith Hackett to continually criticise PGMOL. 

Have to agree with that! He has burned his bridges with way too many people with that.

I'd be tempted to appoint someone foreign like Kyros Vassaras (sorry Romania...) who would not be intimidated by the PL shareholders.  That is one of the biggest problems faced by whoever takes the role, if and when it becomes available, over the years Sky & the PL shareholders have been and still are allowed too much say. If they jump up and down and cry about too many penalties for pushing, out comes a directive telling the refs to ignore all but the worst ones, they cry about shirt pulling being ignored then out comes a directive saying punish every single one - maybe a slight exaggeration there but only slight! The PGMOL needs to be made 100% independent of the PL and the 'rights' of the PL shareholders and Sky TV to have any say in refereeing matters taken away - until it is then things won't really change whoever is in charge. Their hands are tied from Day 1 because the wants of Sky and the PL shareholders are given too much weight.

Correct - the shareholders of PGMOL create a fundamental and - as they currently stand - unresolvable conflict of interest. 

Nothing will change, regardless of who is in charge unless this changes.  Riley is doing what his paymasters want him to do.  A replacement will be required to do the same.  Why do you think they got rid of Phil Don?

Let's remember there was nothing special about Kavanagh going to the monitor. It's now policy that no red card will be shown or downgraded after a VAT intervention without the referee looking at the screen and has been since mid January - hence the likes of Paul Tierney, Graham Scott and Andy Madley all looking at the monitor previously.

Surely a VAT intervention would be too taxing for many referees  .

Quote from: Readingfan on Mon 29 Jun 2020 18:35

The way football's use of VAR seems to me (at least in theory) to be a bit different to most other sports. In rugby, it seems the referee can opt out of making a decision initially and just ask the TMO to check, whereas in football the procedure is they should actively make a decision first (either way) and then VAR checks everything and overrules if wrong.

I'm sure some of the poorer/weaker officials do make non-decisions in the belief VAR can bail them out if wrong but let's remember plenty of mistakes were made before VAR so I doubt this is the case every time. Some referees just miss quite a lot!

It would be interesting I suppose to hear what the error rate for KMI decisions was this season before VAR intervention and how it compared to the KMI errors last year without VAR (I think it was around 82% accuracy in the PL last year?)

I don't know what the procedure is in Rugby Union because I have no interest in that aspect of rugby, however, In Rugby League the referee makes his decision and indicates on the field whether he thinks it is a try or not an asks the TMO to check various aspects. It is then dependent on whether or not the TMO can see anything concrete to overrule the original decision. In the NRL in Australia they have also introduced a Captain's Challenge where the skipper of each side can challenge ONE onfield decision per match, if he wins the challenge it retains the opportunity to challenge again, however, if he loses the challenge then that is the end of it. Certainly seems to work very well and is amusing to hear the ref getting a bit of grief, smiling at the player and asking if he wishes to challenge and grinning broadly when the player shakes his head.

The NRL's "Captain's Challenge" is also used (in one form or another) in Cricket and Hockey.  It creates a "put up of shut up moment" with dissent.  Football should adopt it.