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Messages - Leggy

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General Discussion / Re: Dortmund vs sevilla - Cakir
« on: Wed 10 Mar 2021 12:15 »
What in the actual hell, was happening last night? So much confusion
Haaland scores
Goal disallowed for offside
Penalty given for foul on Haaland a minute before the original incident
Penalty taken and saved then recalled back for a retake
Penalty then scored and Haaland causes a brawl due to his celebration

Feel sorry for Cakir and his team with all the confusion
But 7 minutes between the original offside call and the goal being scored
How much stoppage time was played?

They are still playing  ;)

General Discussion / Re: Kevin Friend, Liverpool v Fulham
« on: Mon 08 Mar 2021 18:43 »
There wasn't too much of note from a refereeing perspective in this game, no controversial incidents or VAR interventions, but just wanted to give Kevin some praise for his overall performance.  I was impressed with his foul detection, and more so, his ability not to fall for any theatrics.  He let the game flow, stayed out of the limelight, and contributed to an entertaining game.  Sometimes, as a supporter of a so called lesser club, you fear getting the wrong end of any 50-50 decisions at the bigger clubs, but there was no evidence of that at all from Kevin, especially towards the end when Liverpool were chasing the game and appealing for everything.  A really strong, solid performance.

Agreed, I think he's been good this season on the whole.

Not worth its own post but Taylor was good yesterday also,  might have looked easy but excellent positioning early on to award the penalty.

I think that to be "switched on" and ready to make a big game decision in a big game after less than a minute is to Taylor's credit.  I know he is one of our top referees and you could argue that is what is expected of him, but how many times have we excused refereeing failings due to it being "so early in the game".  Taylor was ready, well positioned, made the right call (with negligible dissent) and should receive due praise for that.

General Discussion / Re: Referee kits / colours
« on: Thu 04 Mar 2021 18:53 »
This was never a problem in the past.  Referees wore black and teams didn't.  The only exception seemed to be when Scotland played, and the ref would wear either white or red.  Even goalkeepers didn't tend to wear black, except Lev Yashin.

I refereed basketball for many years where referees all wore grey.  No teams were allowed to wear grey and so there was never a problem.  It seems now that football kits get more gaudy and ridiculous all the time, and referees have been subjected to the same madness.

It would appear that Late Tackle and I or of one mind ...., this was what I said at the start of last week in the discussion about Steven Martin's kit faux par the previous weekend:

"How about this for a way forward ...... we (match officials) will wear black - you (teams) don't ??  I do realise that I am a dinosaur and need pensioning off, but this did work for about 100 years.  It was only our Caledonian cousins in their national team kit that caused a problem - with a rare sighting of the red, or yellow referee's shirt for the odd Home International match - apart from that, black seemed to work fine."

Great minds  ;)

General Discussion / Re: L MASON - West Brom v Brighton
« on: Tue 02 Mar 2021 08:08 »
Considering there are innumerable posts now in referee development, coaching and observing I would have thought that was the carrot to help move Mason on if that is what the authorities wished to do. For some time now I have thought that Mason does not look like he is enjoying his refereeing; of course that may be a false impression and he is still wildly enthusiastic and delighted to be officiating but at West Brom he looked a picture of flustered misery. By pretty common consent, he isn't regarded as one of the strongest SG1 performers and it's not good for anyone's self respect to continue in high profile work when you know that you are not really 'cutting the mustard' I believe the expression used is "nicking the money" and I would hate to have that said about me as I imagine would many except the most cynical.

To quote Whistleblower:  "Considering there are innumerable posts now in referee development, coaching and observing" - it does beg the question as to whether the footballing authorities are getting a fair return on this investment?  Is the standard that much better than 30 years ago when the majority of these roles either did not exist, or were carried out on a voluntary basis? 

The proliferation of such roles (along with the Country FA equivalents) does, of course, provide a ready made supply of "boys" from which it would appear a fair proportion of the senior refereeing "jobs" are found  ;)

General Discussion / Re: Stuart Atwell Chelsea - Man United
« on: Mon 01 Mar 2021 18:42 »
Extraordinary post-match comments from Luke Shaw that must have serious repercussions one way or the other.

"I even heard the referee say to H [Maguire], if I say it's a pen then it's going to cause a lot of people to talk afterwards."

If Attwell has said that to Maguire then that is very disappointing and would ruin what was a very good performance. He should face disciplinary consequences of his comments
Manchester United have said that Luke Shaw misheard the conversation between Stuart Attwell and Harry Maguire.

Of course he did.  Anyone who has had the "pleasure" of attending a personal hearing will be aware that players "miss-hear" words and conversations all the time.  And then they present their mis-hearings as facts to support their case.

General Discussion / Re: Throw Ins
« on: Mon 01 Mar 2021 18:40 »
I have got the impression that more foul throws are being penalised this season.  I saw two this weekend.  One was at Peterborough v Wigan, which I was fortunate enough to be at in person.  It was right in front of me, was a horrible throw and no one complained.  The other was on a game I watched on TV.  I think it was Wycombe v Norwich.  Again it looked horrible and no one complained.  However I rewound the action, checked it, and could see absolutely nothing that contravened the correct procedure.  That is not the first time I have seen that this season.  The ones that seem to get penalised are the ones that are thrown a very short distance.

I saw the one given against Aarons, was given by the assistant. Obviously they can now multi-task, in my day "linesman" only looked for foot faults.  :)

To miss-quote Lewis Carroll, I can miss six minor technical offences before breakfast  ;).

Parking the Mason controversy for a moment, how is it any way sensible to appoint a referee as fourth official for a game taking place the day after he has refereed a Premier League game.  The fourth official could be called up on to officiate at any time - perhaps for the whole game if the appointed referee tweaks a hammy in the warm up.  No referee could or should be put in the position of potentially refereeing two Premier League games in consecutive days.  If players were asked to do that  ....  :o

General Discussion / Re: L MASON - West Brom v Brighton
« on: Sun 28 Feb 2021 11:09 »
I firmly believe that an awful lot of the emotion (and personal animosity on this site towards Lee Mason) might just be be taken away if Lee, and/or the PGMOL simply came out and said that a mistake was made and an apology made to both teams.  Its worth adding that nothing can be done about the mistake other than using it so that all referees can learn from it - so they do not have to experience it themselves.

Any sanction / performance assessment of Lee Mason's performance should take place behind closed doors and be a matter for Lee and his employers.  This is the benefit afforded to players ("we'll deal with it 'in house'" is what is often said by a manager or in a club statement).  It should be dealt with "in house".

PS:  I am certainly no fan of Lee Mason but, as a human being, he must be felling pretty rubbish today and - when all is said and done - it is a football match.  Nobody died.

PPS:  Rugby Union might want to follow the same approach in respect of the debacle in Cardiff yesterday ......

Kicking the ball away, not retreating 10 yards, dissent and goal keepers catching the ball and then diving full length to then take 15 seconds to release the ball are all tolerated by most referees these days. One good reason why I am glad to be out of it.

I was once told that what is not prevented is encouraged.  QED today.

Lots of comments on another site (law5-theref.blogspot.com) about the referee ending the game "in line with UEFA protocol". I'm probably confused, as I thought that after Clive Thomas's WC fiasco (Sweden v Brazil), play should be allowed to proceed until the ball is out of play. In practice, I reckon we would probably end the game once the attacking team has lost the ball or plays the ball backwards. In rugby, the ball has to be out of play. Lots of understandable emotion - but, if time is up before a corner is taken, do you end the game? Would you end the game before a FK is taken? Seems that there's UEFA protocol at the top end of the game! Perhaps needless to write, but conspiracy theories aplenty given it was a Spanish referee (Manzona) and an Italian side won in questionable circumstances.

So if you end the first half or the game when the attacking team has a corner, free-kick or promising attack ..... you will get it in the neck from the attacking team.

If you allow "additional time" to let the corner / free-kick or promising attack to play out and a goal ensues ..... you will get it in the neck from the defending side.

If you adopt the Rugby Union approach it will affect the way in which the final minutes of each game are played, and not in a good way.

Perhaps, just perhaps, referees should apply the laws of the game and blow for time when time expires?

Please find below a link ,  I am not saying it is true or that i believe it but it is certainly the first I have heard of it and puts more pressure on the referees


Its in the Daily Mail .... need we say more?

General Discussion / Re: Give the Ref a Hand
« on: Fri 26 Feb 2021 06:53 »
But do they own part (or all?) of the organisation the appoints the match officials?

Genuine question, as I do not know.

General Discussion / Re: Give the Ref a Hand
« on: Thu 25 Feb 2021 16:17 »
Please tell me this is a **** take! If the FA really want to give refs a hand, deal with player and manager behaviour far more effectively.

The premiership rugby highlights on channel 5 on Monday gave me good for thought. Last weekend, 5 red cards were issued in the premiership. The pundit on the highlights show said words to the effect: “rugby has decided that tackles that hit the should no longer be tolerated and so referees are now issuing red cards. It’s like football - if they really wanted to deal with player behaviour then referees should issue several red cards. It would be a sore point for a couple of weeks, but players and clubs would have to learn pretty darn quick!”

I suspect the difference between rugby and football is that the rugby authorities, who are charged with ensuring the good order and conduct of the game, have far more independence and authority separate from the influence of the major clubs and therefore can do things without bending to that undue influence. Perhaps someone like RCG who is particularly knowledgeable about rugby might confirm that. In football, such is the financial muscle which the big clubs exert, the FA has become supine and lacks authority to do anything of which the big clubs disapprove. The clubs don't want to lose players through suspension and so are set against any reforms which may enhance a referee's on-field respect and authority. Meaningless gestures  have no such effect and so can be supported.

If the shareholders of PGMOL are (directly or indirectly) the clubs then there is a fundamental conflict of interest.

General Discussion / Re: New depths
« on: Tue 23 Feb 2021 16:09 »
It is only the logical extension / exaggeration of what is already happening in most top flite leagues.

General Discussion / Re: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford
« on: Tue 23 Feb 2021 07:54 »
Oh for the days when teams weren't allowed to play in black or very dark colours eh?
Incidentally I think I recall a post indicating that "top level" referees are instructed by the competition which shirt to wear (The teams having been required to advise the competition of their intended colours)
When I was administrating a team our colours formed part of the confirmation email to the opposition and referee

I believe the PL do choose the colour, but how do they get it wrong so often? So many games in PL where a goalkeeper is in black and so are the officials, despite other choices being an option. Shouldn’t be hard to get it right!

Martin & team obviously had the purple shirts with them, so why not use them from the outset, as black was clearly never going to be great.

There are only four referee shirt colours, and sometimes it is just impossible to avoid a clash.  So it is best to clash with one of the keepers, and they can't ask the keeper to change as that affects sponsorship agreements.  I would also say as I always do, why does it matter that the referee clashes with a keeper, but that is just my view.

Of bigger concern are things like yesterday.  Arsenal vs Man City, rather plan play in their usual blue City play in white, including white sleeves that completely clashed with Arsenal.  That's a nightware for assistants, how can you judge offside when both teams are wearing the same coloured sleeves?

"Nightware for assistants" - would that be the Lino's Pyjamas?   ;D ;D ;D

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