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Messages - Leggy
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451
« on: Mon 04 Oct 2021 06:57 »
This is a classic example of a referee getting into bother by trying to "manage the game" as opposed to apply the Laws of the Game.
Milner's foul challenge (whether the whistle had gone or not) was a caution every day of every week in every league in every country.
The referee, realising that is was a second yellow card and not wanting to "be the story" on a big game has tried to manage his way out of it and declined to issue a second caution. Pep then goes crazy (BMB's description of his behaviour is spot on); but the referee cannot sanction him because he knows that his protestations (wrong that they are) are 100% justified.
The solution is pretty straightforward - issue the caution. Two wrongs don't make a right, so don't go wrong in the first place.
452
« on: Sun 03 Oct 2021 18:50 »
I didn't watch the full match so I can't comment on Ward's wider performance.
However, the penalty decision is one of the worst dives I have ever seen a ref fall for to give a penalty (maybe only a penalty which Mario Sánchez Yantén gave Saudi Arabia at WC 1998 is close). And it was so avoidable.
Ward's movement is extremely static in this scene. The play even more-or-less reaches the goal area and he makes absolutely no dynamic sprint at all, just walking (out of shot) whilst being twenty+ yards away. When the dive happens, the ref has a zero angle, it is on the AR's blind(er) side, so the officials guess, and get it totally wrong.
If Ward had moved leftwards as play demanded, then he would have been positioned in this zone (see below), and gotten the decision right.
(Attachment Link)
He certainly would have been much better placed to spot the (non) offence, but that would require reverting to some version of the diagonal system of control. This is seemingly discredited by the powers that be and a referee adopting that approach is not going to reach (or remain) at SG2 level. Which is a shame, because I believe it significantly increases the chances of getting the major decisions right. (editd to fix quote thing)
453
« on: Wed 29 Sep 2021 14:42 »
Indeed. There is a near 100% correlation between Colin's mood and the result of the team he is managing that particular week.
454
« on: Mon 27 Sep 2021 18:55 »
Champions League 2021/22 - Referee Appointments - Matchday 2 (wednesday)
29 September 2021
21:00 CET - Lisbon (Estádio do Sport Lisboa e Benfica)
SL Benfica (POR) - FC Barcelona (ESP) | Group E
Referee: Daniele Orsato (ITA)
Assistant Referee 1: Alessandro Giallatini (ITA)
Assistant Referee 2: Ciro Carbone (ITA)
Fourth Official: Daniele Doveri (ITA)
Video Assistant Referee: Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Christopher Kavanagh (ENG)
UEFA Referee Observer: Mehmet Murat Ilgaz (TUR)
I only just realised that Chris Kavanagh is VAR on the Crystal Palace vs BHA game. Then presumably has to travel back to Manchester for a flight for this game, and will then presumably be out in the PL this weekend too.
Surely UEFA and the PGMOL talk to one another about appointments, right?
Or fly straight from Heathrow to Switzerland?
I'm told their flight is from Manchester at silly O'Clock tomorrow am. UEFA will have booked it from his 'home' airport about 10 days ago, which the PGMOL would have known. The flight is around 6am - they have to be there for around midday. Time he leaves Stockley Park it will be about 11pm, what is it - 4 hours to Manchester? He might be lucky enough to get a whole 2 hours nap at the airport before having to book in and board the plane. A couple more hours on the flight, if lucky & he's the sort who can sleep on a plane. Very healthy - not!! If he has games Tues & Weds, which seems to be the new way of doing it, he'll fly back Friday & probably be out twice over the weekend in some capacity.
What's it going to take for the PGMOL to start using some common sense? One of them collapsing from exhaustion or worse?
Our Federation might not get much right but our FIFA referees get offered the weekend before a midweek Europe game off and they don't get a game for a minimum 24 hours after return. If they return on Friday they won't be on a Saturday game in any capacity, they'll be on one of the Sunday games or a game in the NBII on Sunday. They'll also be spoken to before being appointed and if travel back was on the Friday they will again offered the weekend off. Ok we have less games but then our pool of referees is also smaller. The Federation will use NBII referees as 4O & VAR if needs be on the Saturday rather than one of the referees who have been out midweek. It might happen on a rare occasion, if there are no other options - positive covid tests/injury/3+ teams out abroad etc but then it would be a Budapest based game and the Federation will put them in the hotel in Vecsés, literally a 2 min drive from the airport for the Fri & Sat night.
If that is true, its nuts. Apart from the clear risks presented by driving from Stockley Park to Manchester after officiating (albeit on TV) in a Premier League match; no-one is going to be on anything like "top form" after the combination of working, journey and lack of sleep. I hope, for once, that you are wrong BMB and the proximity of Stockley Park to Heathrow Airport (2.4 miles according to Google Maps) has pricked some common sense from those making these appointing decisions. (Self edited as I used a rude word in the original post - apologies.)
455
« on: Mon 27 Sep 2021 15:31 »
Champions League 2021/22 - Referee Appointments - Matchday 2 (wednesday)
29 September 2021
21:00 CET - Lisbon (Estádio do Sport Lisboa e Benfica)
SL Benfica (POR) - FC Barcelona (ESP) | Group E
Referee: Daniele Orsato (ITA)
Assistant Referee 1: Alessandro Giallatini (ITA)
Assistant Referee 2: Ciro Carbone (ITA)
Fourth Official: Daniele Doveri (ITA)
Video Assistant Referee: Massimiliano Irrati (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Christopher Kavanagh (ENG)
UEFA Referee Observer: Mehmet Murat Ilgaz (TUR)
I only just realised that Chris Kavanagh is VAR on the Crystal Palace vs BHA game. Then presumably has to travel back to Manchester for a flight for this game, and will then presumably be out in the PL this weekend too.
Surely UEFA and the PGMOL talk to one another about appointments, right?
Or fly straight from Heathrow to Switzerland?
456
« on: Sun 26 Sep 2021 12:38 »
Example one... Darlow began timewasting at the start of the second half. Gillett continuously tried to "manage" the situation by talking to him/captain which made not one bit of difference. Darlow was booked in stoppage time - this was essentially a perfunctory crowd pleasing move which made absolutely no impact.
You can't book a player for his first-time time-wasting. There should be a process - gesture, verbal warning then caution. Also, I was happy to see him not to fall for the crowd noise easily. I can't see Gillett doing anything wrong about it.
Example two... Manquillo (already booked in the first half) gave away a soft free kick towards the end of the game and subsequently leathered the ball down to the other end of the pitch well after the whistle. No second booking was forthcoming for dissent.
As for the Manquillo incident, I think Gillett made a mistake in blowing his whistle - no foul either IMO. That was why Manquillo was frustrated. But he did kick the ball away, so I agree that there should be the second YC for Manquillo's reaction despite the wrong foul call.
Overall I think Gillett was doing well - not an easy match for a new PL ref but he managed to calm things down and kept players under control. I think he will have a bright future. We can not expect a beginner to manage a match like Oliver did last night - superb performance for him by the way!
"You can't book a player for his first-time time-wasting". Yes you can - it's Unsporting Behaviour.
457
« on: Fri 10 Sep 2021 10:40 »
Fifth test forfeited by India due to corona.
I would not be surprised if this ends up not being an India forfeit. Money talks and the BCCI has loads of it.
458
« on: Fri 10 Sep 2021 06:47 »
I see Conmebol have a VAR observer - maybe we see that too (esp if VAR is remote)
Oh goody - more jobs for the boys! The more match officials, observers and assessors that are appointed to the top games sucks the refereeing resources away from the grass roots of the game. It also lowers the standard at the top and devalues the achievements of those reaching the very top versus those reaching the same status in years gone by.
459
« on: Thu 09 Sep 2021 08:30 »
Well the reaction at half time and the disgraceful handbags is the result of poor officiating from earlier.
Not sure what kicked those ugly scenes off but it was very messy.
Well the officiating may contribute but the players must take responsibility for that type of behaviour really. I don’t think either side has covered themselves with glory.
I’m sorry to say I’m not sure Siebert has either. It’s a very niggly game at times with lots physical play and I’m not sure the German referee has handled it as well as he could have. Yellows he has given seem correct but I think he should take stronger action against some of the Polish fouling. Not that England have been angels but I feel as the game has gone on the Polish have put in a lot of lazy challenges.
He was marginally better in the second half but as you said the earlier fouling set his tolerance level quite high. It was only in the second half the cards came out like confetti.
A poor evening for the German officials.
Incidentally is Herr Brych injured at the moment? He would have handled this game much better than Siebert.
I suspect that Herr Flick from Allo Allo would have handled it better.
460
« on: Thu 09 Sep 2021 08:30 »
How do you get an "accidental" stamp please?
A poor start from the officials. A shocking booking for Phillips for an accidental stamp on the Polish player.
This official isn’t filling me with much confidence thus far.
Edited to fix the quote thingamajigga, bmb.
Quite possible when the player plays the ball with one foot and has to place his standing foot somewhere. In this case, without looking and certainly without meaning to, he placed his standing foot (to call it a stamp is an insult to stamping) on top of his opponents' foot. As he is a modern player, his "slipper like" boot offered almost no protection so he was hurt. He was not as hurt as he pretended to be until the yellow card was produced, but that is a whole different argument. It was a foul, but a decent referee who actually watches what happens as opposed to responding to player reaction would have judged it better. Last night's referee was not.
461
« on: Mon 30 Aug 2021 16:38 »
Late to the debate though I am, I would have penalised as AT (eventually) did 15 years ago. Although the ball deflected off his thigh he made an instinctive movement to prevent entering the goal. That movement was with his arm and that arm made contact with the ball.
Result: Penalty kick and red card for DOGSO.
The recent numerous changes to the way that handball should / should not be penalised have served to muddy the debate here.
As for the dissent, when will the football authorities wake up, grow a backbone and deal with this properly? No other sport displays such an undignified, disrespectful and disgraceful side of itself during almost every game at every level. Every active referee would willingly apply the Laws and eliminate 99% of all known dissent if only their masters and betters would let them.
462
« on: Tue 24 Aug 2021 16:05 »
I do hope Oliver and Taylor will be given weekends off soon - both have matches in Europe, and Oliver had one last week, yet both have been used the following weekend. All that travelling, combined with weekly PL appointments is surely going to lead to burnout/dips in form if they're not careful. There really is no excuse when they have so many referees in the group.
Pawson flies back from Serbia on Friday, straight off to Liverpool for 4O duties and then 4O duties at Burnley the next day. Ok 4O isn't as taxing as being referee but standing around trying to keep focus and babysit the managers while tired and stiff from travelling can't be much fun either. They should all be given 1 of 2 weekends off completely if they have a mid week Europe game. It's not just the travel and living out of a suitcase away from home for a week or more there's the disruption to their training schedules and giving their bodies time to recoup.
I know the "lifestyle" is very different, but this is what is asked of the players - play somewhere exotic (ish!) midweek then fly back and play a Premier League game at the weekend. Players get loads more £££ but for both players and referees, this is their profession. Its tough on them, but is it totally unreasonable?
463
« on: Tue 24 Aug 2021 08:50 »
Also, during the first half MO played an advantage using the "one hand" signal. It did not look to be a great advantage and players from both sides appeared to stop playing - quite possibly because the one-handed signal could easily have been seen as a directional free kick signal. Clearly there was no whistle, but in a full and noisy stadium any whistle may not have been heard and the players clearly reacted to the signal. Any possible advantage was lost by the hiatus and the action eventually resumed with bemused looks all round.
How is the "new" one-handed signal that, in many circumstances, looks the same as a free-kick signal a better way of the referee communicating with players and spectators than the "old" two-handed one??
Change for changes' sake or am I missing something obvious?
464
« on: Tue 24 Aug 2021 08:42 »
How did the likes of kettle et al pass this then. I can’t think of anyone more “fatter” than Kettle apart from Moss?
He looks a bit more svelte this season!
I saw Jon Moss in his record shop a couple of weeks ago. He's certainly not 'fat'.
Brett Huxtable has a Pizza Trophy game next week, all the way up in Burton, bizarrely.
Surely having a cup competition sponsored by a Pizza firm is not going to help reduce the levels of body fat in match officials 
465
« on: Thu 19 Aug 2021 08:22 »
Which is standard for SG1. Amazes me as it appears to be the only level of football where you get promoted and then referee below that for a few weeks.
FL dont say to their newbies ref in the national league for a few weeks to warm up
(And SG2 refs have gone straight in too)
So there was a period - certainly in the 1980's and 1990's - when newly appointed Football League referees remained available to their Contributory League for at least their first season. This was because they would be getting - on average - one game in four on the Football League and the powers that be wanted them to keep match fit. It did give up and coming Lino's on the Contributory League the opportunity to occasionally work with a "star" of the refereeing world.
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