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Messages - Leggy

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So you might be way ahead of me here, but the fixtures on Monday 26th and Tuesday 27th December 1949 are reversed and - in the cases where the referees are named - the referee has stayed with both games.

Might be worth trying that in the future  ;)

Week 15 "new" linesmen

Looks like it was the turn of A-H this week

William R. Barnes
Leslie R.L. Bearman
George W. Bryan (Runcorn)
George Clark (Lewisham, Kent) (not London)
Frank Coulson (Sleaford, Lincs)
George A. Dawson (Huddersfield)
John Delany (not Delaney)
Harry Dykes (Manchester)
Leslie A. Hill (Reading)
Declan A. Hurley

Even in 1949-50, Lewisham would have been part of London?  The London FA had its offices near there (Aldworth Grove) for a while.

Jersey Bulls Football Club (First Team) v Horsham YMCA (First Team)
FA Cup   
Referee: Chapman, Luke
Assistant Referee: Khan, Imran
Assistant Referee: Spence, Mark

These have the honour of the first ever FA Cup tie in Jersey and the most southerly FA cup game ever staged.

Fulham FC v Chelsea FC 1-1
Referee - Dellow   William "Bill"   (Croydon)
Linesmen - Jackson J. B. (Watford) and Gibbard Roland B. (Luton)

William 'Bill' Dellow, a very able RA Chairman when I first set out in local refereeing in the early 1970s.

Also a pretty formidable referees' appointments secretary of the Southern League.

A bit odd if Clive Thomas was on the line to Edward Morgan at Alki Larnaca in 1979, given that Thomas was a FIFA ref and Morgan never made it on to the FL refs list. Should it not be the other way around? Keith Cooper was/is the father of Swansea's current head coach Steve Cooper.

I agree it seems strange. Given Clive Thomas's seniority he wouldn't have been a likely choice as referee for this kind of game but it wouldn't have been surprising for it to go to one of the other Welsh officials who was a Football League referee. The listing may be correct though and they may have felt that it would be useful to have someone of Clive's experience to assist an official who wasn't a Football League referee, perhaps not unlike the way a very experienced referee may be used as fourth official to a new ref these days.

This was in the days before specialist Assistant Referees (Linesmen) and it was the case that the senior linesman would take over if the referee took injured.  There were some awful examples of high level referees trying to act as linesmen when it was clear they had not done so in anger for years.

General Discussion / The Centre Circle
« on: Sat 03 Jul 2021 11:59 »
In a quiet moment of a game yesterday, it struck me that the only reason we have a centre circle marked in the field of play is to ensure that players are the right distance away during a "place kick".  At least that is what is was called when I trained as a referee - the kick-off at the start of each half and after a goal.

In an average game (no extra time), the centre circle is of use a minimum of two times, an average of five times and the total would never get into double figures.

In that same average game (and indeed in almost every game), there will be more corner kicks than place kicks.

So why do we not have a quadrant marked in each corner to ensure that players are the right distance away during a corner kick?  I appreciate that there are small markings outside the field of play on the goal-line and touch line, but having a quadrant marked would be of more use to match control than the centre circle.

Has this never been seriously considered; or is there a killer reason why this should not happen?

Duncan Jackson was, I believe a man of Kent (or a Kentish man).

General Discussion / Re: Tim Robinson
« on: Sun 27 Jun 2021 16:28 »
22nd June 2021

North Group:

Derbyshire Vs Leicestershire
Umpires: Tim Robinson and Tom Lungley
Match Referee: Peter Such

Saw this and thought was quite funny, imagine if this was the same Tim
I saw Martin Bodenham referee top division football and umpire first class cricket.
Was he any good at either?
Nice man though a perfect gentleman.

Martin was an excellent referee who had a reputation (in his early Football League years at least) of being a bit of a car shark.  Less so, later on.  He was - as you describe - a perfect gentleman with a good sense of humour.  He also did a lot of work developing end mentoring Sussex referees and helping to further their careers.

He must have been a very good umpire, because not many (in those days) made to the First Class list without having played at that level.  There are more these days, but the ECB still regards playing at that level as a definite positive when it comes to umpiring.   Of course, the willingness of a large number of retiring first class cricketers facilitates this, I do not see the same volume of top footballers queueing up to do the same.

General Discussion / Re: Promotion 2021
« on: Fri 25 Jun 2021 12:57 »
No 5 to 4 promotions either and that also now runs August 2020 to April 2022.  I suspect they are going to have a real shortage of level 4s in some areas, and the FA have said there may be interim promotions but as yet haven't said when, guess they will wait to see how bad the shortages are.  Whilst there are no 4 to 3 promotions, or 4 to 5 demotions, every year L4s are lost through natural wastage.  May well be worse this year as some might have got so used to having their Saturdays and midweeks back that they decide not to return.  That was my reason for quitting L3, I spent a few months out after knee surgery and realised I wasn't really missing it, certainly not as much as I should have been.

Exactly the reason I stopped.  Decided to take a short break in 2011 to see if I was missing it.  Ten years later ............

It was clearly time to heed the advice of many players, fans, some colleagues and more than a few assessors and hang up the whistle.

Agree.  Its a safety net, he should have used it.

Or he could have not been in the way in the first place, but I have already had a rant about that on the Euros section ....

Maybe he'll be hanging around to referee the "final" ??

General Discussion / Re: Duplicate appointments
« on: Thu 17 Jun 2021 08:33 »
It was not a rarity in the 1990s.  On more than one occasion I lined a South East Counties League game on a Saturday morning, then either lined of the London Spartan League or refereed a local game the same afternoon.  That was followed up with two games on the Woolwich and District Sunday League the next day as the league had "morning" and "afternoon" sections.

This can be attributed to a combination of youthful eagerness, a smooth talking appointments secretary and the timeless imbalance of supply (games) and demand (referees)

Many years later, I refereed a FL Youth under 19s game on a Saturday morning and was diverted on the way home to referee an Isthmian League game in the afternoon.  But that was to bail out an appointments secretary who realised (with horror) at about 1pm that he had a game sans a referee.  It was very much a one-off.

Just recounting the above is making me weary and in need of a lie down!

General Discussion / Re: The VAR thread
« on: Fri 11 Jun 2021 06:56 »
However its done, Offside is still a binary thing - it is either offside or not offside and someone will still be called offside by "a toenail". 

So the moaning will not cease - unless, football introduces the equivalent of "umpire's call".  But for that, the ARs will have to make the "call" (as opposed to today's "wait and see" protocols" and - as long as it is within an agreed tolerance level- what they say goes.  It does mean that you could have two identical scenarios with one called offside and the other not, but that is what happens in cricket and they sort of accept that.  Might be a bit of a stretch for football though?

General Discussion / Re: Israeli Cup Final VAR AGAIN
« on: Wed 09 Jun 2021 15:27 »
Its good to see that the introduction of VAR has eliminated controversary and dissent from the game.   ;)

Lots of opinions here and I start from the neutral position of not having seen the game or any of the incidents mentioned.  But some of the comments are literally staggering.

The implication that any decision Bobby did or didn't give 'decided promotion' is frankly ludicrous.  I'm a Northampton fan and our team in 2015 with Chris Wilder in charge absolutely wiped the floor with everyone in L2 (this is a once in a 70 year occurrence). When pressed by a journalist for a soundbite on a controversial refereeing decision he said 'Referees will make mistakes.  Some will go for you, some will go against you.  I set up my team to be good enough for neither of those things to matter'. One poster here has said Newport missed numerous chances - maybe that's the root cause of the result.  Get your own house in order first.

And one person said the referee needs to be '200% correct before giving a decision in a game like that'. I'm not even sure where to start with that.  I think you'll find it's the referee's job to give decisions, so if he waits until he's '200% correct' we'll have 90 minutes without him blowing his whistle.

It sounds like Bobby hasn't covered himself in glory and as the showpiece game of his season I would imagine no-one will be more disappointed in that than him.  But whatever the opposite saying is for 'one swallow doesn't make a summer' applies here.  His suitability to be an SG2 referee won't be judged on that one game and nor should it.  His performances over the season have made him number 1, unsurprising as you don't become a FIFA referee by accident.

A disappointing end to an outstanding season for him.

I would almost always disagree with a statement - whether it is made by a player, manager or fan - that a single decision cost their team the game, promotion or forced them to be relegated.  Over a season the best teams in a league end up at the top and the worst ones end up at the bottom.

But the play-offs (exciting that they can be) are a cup semi-final and final used to decide which of four sides should receive a final promotion place.  And a penalty decision in the second half of extra time of a tight final (no goals, few clear-cut chances) does come close to being a game decider.  And if that decision is incorrect it makes the argument that "the referee's decision cost us promotion" harder to refute.

The first-half penalty decision, however, does not justify the same argument.  The penalty kick might not have been converted.  Had Newport scored a very different (more open?) game would have ensued.

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