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General Refereeing => General Discussion => Topic started by: cwh on Sat 04 Feb 2023 16:12

Title: Hostility in the game pushing referees to use recording devices
Post by: cwh on Sat 04 Feb 2023 16:12
Has anyone seen this article in todays I Paper - it is rather a long article which raises some concerns - it alleges that some referees in the EFL and Non league are using small audio devices to covertly record exchanges on the pitch and in their offices after   gam es to protect themselves from false allegations - there are some excerpts from these recordings
All a bit worrying

Title: Re: Hostility in the game pushing referees to use recording devices
Post by: bmb on Sat 04 Feb 2023 17:11
Not seen the article but it probably stems from the same reasons that IFAB have agreed the body cam trial. Hostility against referees is at an all time high so I can't really blame anyone who does so to be honest.
Title: Re: Hostility in the game pushing referees to use recording devices
Post by: charlieboy on Sat 04 Feb 2023 17:22
I wonder if Bobby madden had one and that’s why what he was alledged to have said was not proven?
Title: Re: Hostility in the game pushing referees to use recording devices
Post by: Wollongong Ref on Sat 04 Feb 2023 22:38
In NSW some of our rugby league referees wear GoPros during games. Really sad it has come to that.
Title: Re: Hostility in the game pushing referees to use recording devices
Post by: Ref Watcher on Mon 06 Feb 2023 12:42
I wonder if Bobby madden had one and that’s why what he was alledged to have said was not proven?
I would have thought that if Bobby Madden had had one, the one verdict that couldn't have been reached was Not Proven.
Title: Re: Hostility in the game pushing referees to use recording devices
Post by: Whistleblower on Mon 06 Feb 2023 13:09
I wonder if Bobby madden had one and that’s why what he was alledged to have said was not proven?
I would have thought that if Bobby Madden had had one, the one verdict that couldn't have been reached was Not Proven.

Providing the audio recording was clear, I tend to agree.
Title: Re: Hostility in the game pushing referees to use recording devices
Post by: bmb on Mon 06 Feb 2023 15:46
We've been recording the comms system since at least season 2016/2017 in Hungary. The recording gets activated pre-kick off and the recording is automatically uploaded to the Federation servers. It has served well when needed and I can't understand why the bigger footballing nations don't do it as standard. 

Viktor Kassai was falsely accused of making a racist comment to a player in a match in April 2017 - player who was given a red card and had tried to assault Kassai on the pitch stated in his disciplinary hearing that he was angry he had racially abused a team mate - the team mate did not back up the accusations. Player got a 5 match ban & Viktor sued him over the false allegations. He was exonerated in court (https://www.hungarianfootball.com/2018/07/15/kassai-exonerated-in-false-racism-claim-made-against-him/) after they played the recording from the comms link while watching the game and it was proven he had never said anything racist. It has also worked the other way when then National team goalkeeper and bmb's fav ever player Király Gábor was sent off for allegedly calling the referee a mofo (Hungarian version of the full word allegedly used). He was given a 3 match ban but appealed the red card, at the disciplinary hearing the comms link recording was played and it was proven he said no such thing and the red was rescinded.

Those examples show how it can protect both the players & referees from any allegations made about things said. If a small, poor nation like Hungary can have it as standard (we don't have GLT because we can't afford it), then a country awash with money in the professional game has no excuse in not doing so. It should not be left to individual referees to have to protect themselves, their employers should be doing that.
Title: Re: Hostility in the game pushing referees to use recording devices
Post by: stig231 on Tue 07 Feb 2023 16:53
I wonder if Bobby madden had one and that’s why what he was alledged to have said was not proven?
I would have thought that if Bobby Madden had had one, the one verdict that couldn't have been reached was Not Proven.

I have no idea what the incident is being referred to with Bobby Madden, however he was involved in an interesting incident in his Northampton v Walsall match at the weekend.....

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/brady-labels-referee-an-absolute-disgrace-after-sarcastically-clapping-mcwilliams-during-walsall-draw-4014530
Title: Re: Hostility in the game pushing referees to use recording devices
Post by: RCG on Tue 07 Feb 2023 17:01
Not that I condone sarcasm (as it opens a can of worms the other way) maybe the "rolling around on the floor 'in agony'" was the reason Mr Maddon didnt stop the game.
I wonder if they have actually reported the incident formally or its just a manager deflecting a "poor" result.
Title: Re: Hostility in the game pushing referees to use recording devices
Post by: rustyref on Tue 07 Feb 2023 17:24
I wonder if Bobby madden had one and that’s why what he was alledged to have said was not proven?
I would have thought that if Bobby Madden had had one, the one verdict that couldn't have been reached was Not Proven.

I have no idea what the incident is being referred to with Bobby Madden, however he was involved in an interesting incident in his Northampton v Walsall match at the weekend.....

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/brady-labels-referee-an-absolute-disgrace-after-sarcastically-clapping-mcwilliams-during-walsall-draw-4014530

"He's on the floor, rolling around" says the manager.  Chances are he isn't seriously injured then.
Title: Re: Hostility in the game pushing referees to use recording devices
Post by: Whistleblower on Tue 07 Feb 2023 17:29
When I started refereeing a very wise and experienced colleague gave me this piece of advice " if a player goes down and is quite still then be very concerned and go to him immediately; if he is rolling about and making a lot of noise there is probably very little wrong with him. " Not infallible but I found it to be a pretty accurate rule of thumb during my officiating career. Another refereeing friend, who was on the FL for many years once said " remember most, not all but most, players will try and con an advantage out of you . They are not on your side "  Very prescient words.

Of course, not being there I cannot comment accurately about this specific case at Northampton.
Title: Re: Hostility in the game pushing referees to use recording devices
Post by: bmb on Tue 07 Feb 2023 17:56
Normally I would agree wholeheartedly with the rolling around comments, I was taught the same as you WB, if they are still get there ASAP if they roll half way down the pitch there's unlikely a lot wrong with them. Eredivisie over the weekend - player rolled 27 times (and yes I counted), ref carried on - VAR intervened and called for OFR. It was on the refs blindside and looked innocuous in real time plus the 27 rolls! Viewing on replay it was a nasty, snidey, kick to the thigh with enough force that several of the stud marks left behind were bleeding. Always an exception to the norm!