RateTheRef
General Refereeing => Referee / Match Official Appointments => Non Footy Appointments => Topic started by: BabyRef on Tue 11 Oct 2022 17:02
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Starts on Saturday - any sign of any appointments yet?
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https://www.rlwc2021.com/article/516/match-officials-confirmed-for-mens-round-1
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Thank you - what does the 'Captain's challenge' official do? Never seen that before
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The RLWC is being played with the variations practised in Australia & NZ for several seasons. Each team is allowed 1 "captain's challenge" per game - if unsuccessful the challenge is forfeited. If the challenge succeeds the team retains it. Not dissimilar to international cricket. Consequently there will be off-field (TV) officials each with specific responsibilities. If you watch NRL on Sky, they are what the commentators refer to as "the bunker".
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Isn't there a video referee already though? What could you challenge for that the video referee wouldn't be able to look at anyway?
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I’m more intrigued about what the “Match Driver” does
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I’m more intrigued about what the “Match Driver” does
Surely he's the guy who drives the match officials to and from the stadium?
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Appointments here:
https://www.rlwc2021.com/article/601/match-officials-confirmed-for-mens-round-2
Congrats to Kasey Badger on her appointment!
After yesterday's game, Thaler has only received a reserve referee appointment and I have a feeling his time is coming to an end as one of the elite referees in Ganson's eyes!
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Appointments here:
https://www.rlwc2021.com/article/601/match-officials-confirmed-for-mens-round-2
Congrats to Kasey Badger on her appointment!
After yesterday's game, Thaler has only received a reserve referee appointment and I have a feeling his time is coming to an end as one of the elite referees in Ganson's eyes!
Gansons treatment of Thaler is nothing short of shambolic in my opinion. He was kept off Super League games until half way through the season and now seems to be out of favour in the W C. For me he is still one of the best, if not the best, Super League referee we have. When the likes of James Child pick up matches ahead of him then you really have to wonder
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Anyone know round 3 appointments in previous rounds normally out on Wednesdays.
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Out later than expected
Women's games also taking place
2 new referees in this round with congrats to Grant, Sharpe & Parkinson.
Thaler back with a women's match and TMO.
So a few refs with 2 appointments:
Klein, Sutton, Gee, Atkins & Smith from the NRL with Moore, Kendall & Hicks from SL
Those with 1 match:
Child, Thaler, Griffiths, Grant & Smith, Casty FRA, Parkinson NZ with the females of Sharpe & Badger making history!!
https://www.rlwc2021.com/article/676/match-officials-confirmed-for-mens-round-3-and-womens-round-1
QF Lineup should be interesting to see which refs get the nod with so many to choose from. My guess is the trusted refs with 2 matches already seem to be in favour.
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No surprises then with the QF appointments. The perceived top 2 refs in the NRL and SL with the appointments:
Nothing for Child in the men's tournament which is the most noticeable omission
I would guess at Kendall & Sutton for the semi's with Moore & Klein going for the final (I'd prefer the latter tbh).
Men’s matches
Friday 4 November
Australia v Lebanon, John Smiths Stadium, Huddersfield, 7.30pm
Referee: Chris Kendall
Touch Judges: Wyatt Raymond and Warren Turley
Reserve Referee: Ben Thaler
Video Ref: Grant Atkins
Saturday 5 November
England v Papua New Guinea, DW Stadium, Wigan, 2.30pm
Referee: Liam Moore
Touch Judges: Darian Furner and Jack Smith
Reserve Referee: Chris Kendall
Video Ref: Adam Gee
New Zealand v Fiji, MKM Stadium, Hull, 7.30pm
Referee: Gerard Sutton
Touch Judges: Belinda Sharpe and Marcus Griffiths
Reserve Referee: Todd Smith
Video Ref: Tom Grant
Sunday 6 November
Samoa v Tonga, Halliwell Jones Stadium, Warrington, 7.30pm
Referee: Ashley Klein
Touch Judges: Robert Hicks and Kasey Badger
Reserve Referee: Adam Gee
Video Ref: Ben Thaler
Women’s matches
Saturday 5 November
England v Canada, DW Stadium, Wigan, 12pm
Referee: Paki Parkinson
Touch Judges: James Vella and Liam Rush
Reserve Referee: Michael Smaill
Video Ref: Ashley Klein
Papua New Guinea v Brazil, MKM Stadium, Hull, 5.00pm
Referee: Ben Casty
Touch Judges: Geoffrey Poumes and Dean Bowmer
Reserve Referee: Todd Smith
Video Ref: James Child
Sunday 6 November
New Zealand v Cook Islands, LNER Community Stadium, York, 5.00pm
Referee: Michael Smaill
Touch Judges: James Vella and Liam Rush
Reserve Referee: Aaron Moore
Video Ref: Tom Grant
Australia v France, LNER Community Stadium, York, 7.30pm
Referee: Rochelle Tamarua
Touch Judges: Neil Horton and Aaron Moore
Reserve Referee: Michael Smaill
Video Ref: Jack Smith
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I get that rugby league has a non-neutrality policy but it does seem odd to me to consciously put an English referee on the England-PNG game when there are Australian officials they could have used.
I could understand it for an England-Australia match but why put a referee in that position when you don't have to? Sutton/Klein easily could have taken it.
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Gerard Sutton is not in our top two referees. HE is ranked third in the NRL
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Well he was for a long while - apologies, who has taken the 2nd spot then?
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Based on appointments to the final series of the NRL Grant Atkinson is our number two.
But referees aren’t appointed by the NRL at this comp so I hope they are appointing on merit. We will be in trouble though if it is a Austral vEnand final and they go with neutrals
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For me Klein has been very good and probably deserves his second WC Final (I think Stuart Cummins is the only other to get 2 finals). I think Atkinson & Kendall were quite fussy. I like Sutton's style and Moore has been OK.
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Klein would be a sensible appointment for an England-Australia final I think (I doubt they'd use an inexperienced neutral ref) - he's Australian but has spent lots of time refereeing in England and is used to their style of play.
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Thoughts for semi finals?
I'd suggest AUS-NZL: Liam Moore
ENG - SAMOA: Ashley Klein
Then Klein for the final. Thought he was very good in a tough QF today and he would be a good 'neutral' choice for an ENG-AUS final given his English connections - I can't see them going for a neutral official given the lack of experienced officials.
Also in both 2013 and 2017 a semi final referee took the final as well.
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I'd expect those appointments to be made and tbh, both the number 1 refs in the NRL & SL were you picks for the final 3 matches.
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Semi's have been announced with Klein & Sutton getting the nod!
So, does that mean Moore for the final or it's between the 2 semi final refs?
Men's semi-finals
Friday 11 November
Australia v New Zealand, Elland Road, Leeds, 7.45pm
Referee: Ashley Klein
Touch judges: Warren Turley and Wyatt Raymond
Reserve referee: Grant Atkins
Video ref: Chris Kendall
Saturday 12 November
England v Samoa, Emirates Stadium, London, 2.30pm
Referee: Gerard Sutton
Touch judges: Jack Smith and Darian Furner
Reserve referee: Liam Moore
Video ref: Adam Gee
Women's Round 3 matches
Wednesday 9 November
Canada v Brazil, Headingley Stadium, Leeds, 5pm
Referee: Michael Smaill
Touch judges: Dean Bowmer and Geoffrey Poumes
Reserve referee: Adam Gee James Vella
Video ref: James Vella
England v Papua New Guinea, Headingley Stadium, Leeds, 7.30pm
Referee: Ben Casty
Touch judges: Rochelle Tamarua and Aaron Moore
Reserve referee: Tom Grant
Video ref: James Child
Thursday 10 November
France v Cook Islands, LNER Community Stadium, York, 5pm
Referee: Ben Thaler
Touch judges: Marcus Griffiths and Belinda Sharpe
Reserve referee: Neil Horton
Video ref: Grant Atkins
Australia v New Zealand, LNER Community Stadium, York, 7.30pm
Referee: Todd Smith
Touch judges: Paki Pakinson and Robert Hicks
Reserve referee: Liam Rush
Video ref: Kasey Badger
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That was obviously the pay off for Moore refereeing England last week, so Australia could have the semi and Final referees.
Moore is England's number one, but he's not that experienced in international rugby, mainly due to the lack of it over the last 3 years, so they wouldn't want to take the risk in a semi final.
For me Klein gets his 2nd final whoever is in it. In my opinion he was fortunate to get it in 2008 when an Australia Vs New Zealand allowed for a neutral "English" referee for the final. It was him, Ganson or the Frenchman Alibert as neutral. But he is by far the top referee in the world and deserves the final.
As previously mentioned, his experience in England sort of helps with the neutrality argument should it be an England Vs Australia final, but having been at the 2000 WC opener when England played Australia in the first game at Twickenham which was refereed by the inexperienced Pakieto from New Zealand, you do need the best referee to do a World Cup Final.
If it was football, you wouldn't put a National League referee on a WC final and that would be the equivalent of using someone not English or Australian on this one.
I look forward to watching Mr Sutton in the flesh this Saturday and then Mr Klein in the final. Although I have met Mr Klein, and had a beer with him (I think he was on soft drinks to be fair) many many years ago when he was a London RL referee before he got on Super League
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Good insight AFAref. I feel like Ben Thaler would have enough international experience to do a semi final but he has been mysteriously sidelined in this tournament for some reason!
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Good insight AFAref. I feel like Ben Thaler would have enough international experience to do a semi final but he has been mysteriously sidelined in this tournament for some reason!
Thaler imho is still our best referee but has been mysteriously sidelined most of this season to be honest, as well as in this competition. I get the feeling Ganson (for whom I personally have little time) has a downer on him for reasons I can’t fathom.
Incidentally I see a lot of similarities between Ganson and Hackett - both average referees who were not as good as they think they were and both leaving much to be desired in their dealings with folk
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Good insight AFAref. I feel like Ben Thaler would have enough international experience to do a semi final but he has been mysteriously sidelined in this tournament for some reason!
There is an International panel of referees, just like the ICC cricket list, and England gets 3 nominations. This is then supplemented by additional Super League referees for lower ranked internationals. The England nominations are Hicks, Kendall and Moore, so Thaler was never in the equation to get a "big" Men's game at the tournament.
Stuart Cummins is in charge of the International list and appointments.
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I recall the news about the international panel but as soon as it was announced it went very quiet. We haven't heard a thing from Stuart Cummins at all which I find very strange.
Maybe some RL experts can add some light on this ?
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Good insight AFAref. I feel like Ben Thaler would have enough international experience to do a semi final but he has been mysteriously sidelined in this tournament for some reason!
There is an International panel of referees, just like the ICC cricket list, and England gets 3 nominations. This is then supplemented by additional Super League referees for lower ranked internationals. The England nominations are Hicks, Kendall and Moore, so Thaler was never in the equation to get a "big" Men's game at the tournament.
Stuart Cummins is in charge of the International list and appointments.
I understand - but my query was more about why he wasn't put on the International Panel in the first place. He has done several international games involving England, New Zealand and Australia before and he could easily handle big World Cup games in my opinion
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Wow, what a 1st semi final, and Mr Klein showing why he is the world number one
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Never been an avid fan of rugby league but this World Cup has been fantastic! The game tonight was incredible, the fitness and stamina of those lads out there. I can say I 100% understand the rules but the referee dealt with all the bad-tempered moments well. Shame NZ couldnt hold on
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Very positive write up about Klein's performance last night on the BBC - surely odds on for the final now?
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You know it's been a good game when even the referee is being praised. Tempers flared a couple of times in the second half but Ashley Klein chose not to send anyone to the sin-bin.
"I thought he was outstanding," said Jones-Buchanan. "He was quick, concise, accurate and he didn't invite himself into the game, and the game just kept flowing. It was a really well-officiated game."
Klein began officiating in England but was born in Australia and has been refereeing in the NRL for more than 10 years.
"I was arguing that it should've been a neutral referee but I take that all back," Hunter-Paul added. "He had a wonderful game."
"If we're going to show people how we want the game to look, and how we want it to be officiated, show them that game," said Wilkin.
"For me, who's watched thousands of rugby league games, I struggle sometimes to really get entertained by a game. I've watched that and been blown away - I've got goosebumps, I'm excited. The quality of it was amazing."
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Could Liam Moore get final now England not in it,
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I wouldn't be surprised at all!!
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RL arent usually that sentimental and I would still expect to see Klein in the middle.
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"This will be followed by a spectacular double header at Old Trafford with the women’s final up first.
Belinda Sharpe will be in charge as Australia and New Zealand meet in a clash of the southern hemisphere giants and she will be supported by Wyatt Raymond and Darian Furner as touch judges. Reserve referee will be Kasey Badger and video referee will be Adam Gee.
The men’s final between Australia and Samoa will be officiated by Ashley Klein, who will take charge of a second World Cup final, having previously done so in 2008. Jack Smith and Warren Turley will be touch judges and the video referee will be Chris Kendal. Reserve official will be Gerard Sutton."
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Can't complain about that really - he was excellent in his semi final
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Congratulations to all, very deserved appointments.
I wonder - does it say something about the standard of refereeing in this country when, despite Australia being in both finals, all 5 officials in the Ladies Final are Australian and we can only provide touch judges and video ref for the Mens Final in which both referee and reserve are Aussies too.
Any thoughts from those more au fait than myself?
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Absolutely unbelievable scenes in the wheelchair final just now - the French touch judge got overruled and had an absolute meltdown, shouting at his fellow official and gesturing at him and the crowd. Never seen anything like it. He later stood behind the posts during a conversation and started hurling the flag around!
https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1593714389856751619
https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/1593734635644542976
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Obviously not fully aware of the rules etc and how the 2 officials are meant to work and who is senior, but it did appear that he had already disallowed an England try in the 1st half which was considered very harsh by those better informed than me.
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He also objected to the winning try that was very clearly a clean try - extraordinary
https://twitter.com/Rhinoshaund_VI/status/1593730155129831424
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Hi Can anyone provide a link as the BBC is geoblocked here in Australia. And clearly it is not on the official highlights from the RLWC
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This is a small segment of it https://twitter.com/Nick_Metcalfe/status/1593714741838495744
But it went on for a lot longer - he was hurling flags around when he was behind the posts, and he refused to put the medal around his neck during the medal ceremony. Extraordinary.
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https://twitter.com/M_Shaw1/status/1593982136599674880
Footage has emerged of that official kicking off at the tournament director as well and having to get escorted off the pitch, also reports that he stuck up his middle finger at the crowd.
Think it's safe to say he won't be officiating again!
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Yes, I think he might be 'rested' for a while, in the same way as the French football referee who took instant retribution after he was accidentally bowled over!
Babyref - 'sad', the whole darn saga not your post! Thank you for posting.
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Don’t let this idiot take away from what was a fantastic final! My first taste of wheelchair rugby league, was terrific!
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On more positive news, I thought Klein was very good in the final.