Post by: Referee99 on Sun 02 Dec 2018 18:05
Post by: Readingfan on Sun 02 Dec 2018 18:19
An excellent day of officiating all round.
Kavanagh shows plenty of promise and can go on to achieve great things.
Post by: TheThingFromLewes on Sun 02 Dec 2018 18:42
Well done!
Post by: Anna1 on Sun 02 Dec 2018 18:49
Post by: reflector on Sun 02 Dec 2018 20:02
Post by: Hertsref123 on Sun 02 Dec 2018 20:29
Post by: Readingfan on Sun 02 Dec 2018 20:37
However, in fairness, it does seem that quite a lot of those who have actually been promoted to SG1 in recent years have been developed well.
We saw Craig Pawson do the first match today and he did well, and I remember him getting the likes of Spurs V Liverpool and Man Utd V Arsenal in his third full season. Chris Kavanagh has settled superbly and has had Liverpool V Everton in his second and will hopefully have further good appointments to follow over the next few months.
Stuart Attwell's development seems to have been well handled over the last few years and Paul Tierney also seems to be progressing well so I think there are some plus points - hopefully A Madley and Jones will be on the list next season and be developed just as well.
From what I've seen, I think it's generally been a good weekend for Premier League officials.
Post by: greeny on Sun 02 Dec 2018 21:52
Post by: rustyref on Sun 02 Dec 2018 22:14
Post by: voice on Sun 02 Dec 2018 23:16
Post by: Scally Bob on Mon 03 Dec 2018 07:11
Very pleased he added the further stoppage time after Everton attempted to keep the ball dead for the four minutes announced!
Post by: dave26 on Mon 03 Dec 2018 08:38
Post by: greeny on Mon 03 Dec 2018 17:43
A Kavanagh masterclass faultless imo just out of curiousity did Clattenburg Oliver or Taylor get such a big game as early in their PL career ( before their 26th PL match )
From Soccerbase:
Clattenburg got Man United v Tottenham as his 11th Premier League match (not as big as the Merseyside derby, but still quite big) - otherwise Arsenal v Liverpool in the 2006/07 was his first big match (41st match).
Oliver got Liverpool v Tottenham on his 29th Premier League match, and got his first Liverpool derby at the end of his 3rd season.
Taylor got Man City v Liverpool on his 47th match.
Post by: Readingfan on Mon 03 Dec 2018 17:58
Post by: greeny on Mon 03 Dec 2018 18:05
Martin Atkinson must have got Liverpool V Man Utd quite quickly - the one where he sent off Paul Scholes.
His 40th match according to Soccerbase. It'll be interesting to see how quickly Kavanagh gets his next 'big' match.
Post by: TheThingFromLewes on Mon 03 Dec 2018 19:29
Martin Atkinson must have got Liverpool V Man Utd quite quickly - the one where he sent off Paul Scholes.
His 40th match according to Soccerbase. It'll be interesting to see how quickly Kavanagh gets his next 'big' match.
It's interesting that Tierney hasn't received a plum game in his tenure yet reached FIFA before Kavanagh presumably will.
I don't recall Attwell having a big derby game, aside from the infamous Derby v Forest game where he made a right dogs dinner of it.
Post by: Hendo on Mon 03 Dec 2018 22:54
Martin Atkinson must have got Liverpool V Man Utd quite quickly - the one where he sent off Paul Scholes.
His 40th match according to Soccerbase. It'll be interesting to see how quickly Kavanagh gets his next 'big' match.
It's interesting that Tierney hasn't received a plum game in his tenure yet reached FIFA before Kavanagh
presumably will.
Interesting as I was just thinking the same thing.
Can anyone tell me how many games it was before Lee Mason or Roger East got the Manchester, Merseyside or North London derbies? 😂
I don't recall Attwell having a big derby game, aside from the infamous Derby v Forest game where he made a right dogs dinner of it.
Post by: bmb on Mon 03 Dec 2018 23:09
Martin Atkinson must have got Liverpool V Man Utd quite quickly - the one where he sent off Paul Scholes.
His 40th match according to Soccerbase. It'll be interesting to see how quickly Kavanagh gets his next 'big' match.
It's interesting that Tierney hasn't received a plum game in his tenure yet reached FIFA before Kavanagh
presumably will.
Interesting as I was just thinking the same thing.
Can anyone tell me how many games it was before Lee Mason or Roger East got the Manchester, Merseyside or North London derbies? 😂
I don't recall Attwell having a big derby game, aside from the infamous Derby v Forest game where he made a right dogs dinner of it.
Have always thought that unfair on him - it was his AR that messed up big time. I know as ref the buck stops with him but the reality is the big error wasn't actually his & should not still be following him around imo. Slate the person who got it wrong, not the poor guy who has to take the blame as he had the whistle not the flag!
Post by: dave26 on Tue 04 Dec 2018 00:32
Post by: Whistleblower on Tue 04 Dec 2018 09:22
Post by: Readingfan on Tue 04 Dec 2018 13:21
Martin Atkinson must have got Liverpool V Man Utd quite quickly - the one where he sent off Paul Scholes.
His 40th match according to Soccerbase. It'll be interesting to see how quickly Kavanagh gets his next 'big' match.
It's interesting that Tierney hasn't received a plum game in his tenure yet reached FIFA before Kavanagh
presumably will.
Interesting as I was just thinking the same thing.
Can anyone tell me how many games it was before Lee Mason or Roger East got the Manchester, Merseyside or North London derbies? 😂
I don't recall Attwell having a big derby game, aside from the infamous Derby v Forest game where he made a right dogs dinner of it.
Have always thought that unfair on him - it was his AR that messed up big time. I know as ref the buck stops with him but the reality is the big error wasn't actually his & should not still be following him around imo. Slate the person who got it wrong, not the poor guy who has to take the blame as he had the whistle not the flag!
I think you are thinking of the Watford V Reading game; whilst I think Attwell was still culpable to some extent, it is true Nigel Bannister was most to blame.
Attwell made a dog's dinner of Forest V Derby all by himself.
That said, it was over 10 years ago so don't think it should especially follow him around now. He's managed to carve out a decent enough career at this level over the past few seasons, if it has not reached the heights that the authorities were perhaps expecting/hoping for a decade or so ago.
Post by: ajb95 on Tue 04 Dec 2018 16:20
Post by: bmb on Tue 04 Dec 2018 17:44
I think you are thinking of the Watford V Reading game; whilst I think Attwell was still culpable to some extent, it is true Nigel Bannister was most to blame.
Attwell made a dog's dinner of Forest V Derby all by himself.
That said, it was over 10 years ago so don't think it should especially follow him around now. He's managed to carve out a decent enough career at this level over the past few seasons, if it has not reached the heights that the authorities were perhaps expecting/hoping for a decade or so ago.
Ah yes, thanks for the correction, I was thinking of that game & the ghost goal. I know the game you mean now & no it wasn't one of his finest moments!
That said it came at a time where everyone (and yes that's an overstated generalisation) seemed to be hyper-critical of him. I've seen tiny errors that he has made be blown all out of proportion that proved the point he was 'the worst ref ever' and justified his position particularly in the media as the poster boy for poor refereeing, that wouldn't even have rated a mention had they been made by one of the more popular refs. He was just a kid back then, unfairly promoted too early (not his decision and you can't blame him for not saying I'm not sure I'm ready yet) and then left to flounder with little or no support, it's no wonder his confidence took a massive nose dive. Michael Oliver greatly benefitted from Stuart's demise in that whilst he was also pushed very young, he was also managed far better and there was a better support network in place with him so they did not repeat the same mistakes. Yes he's an all round better referee as well but he was very well managed as a kid, which helped a lot to shape his future. The same can be said for other youngsters who have come onto the scene after them in that they are managed better and protected more. A positive step by the powers that be & I'm glad the lessons were actually learned but the media/managers and even some of us on here (that's not a dig) can't resist the urge to bring up that very unhappy period for him that was not really of his making. I felt sorry for him then & I still do now, got a massive soft spot for the kid (I still think of him as a kid!) and a lot of respect for him for the way he took his demotion and turned into a positive by working his socks off to improve himself. I think his far too early promotion destroyed that early promise because of the whole knock on effect but he's a great little ref on his day & really no more error prone than anyone else. His errors though will always be jumped on that little bit quicker because of who he is.
Post by: Whistleblower on Wed 05 Dec 2018 05:31
I think you are thinking of the Watford V Reading game; whilst I think Attwell was still culpable to some extent, it is true Nigel Bannister was most to blame.
Attwell made a dog's dinner of Forest V Derby all by himself.
That said, it was over 10 years ago so don't think it should especially follow him around now. He's managed to carve out a decent enough career at this level over the past few seasons, if it has not reached the heights that the authorities were perhaps expecting/hoping for a decade or so ago.
Ah yes, thanks for the correction, I was thinking of that game & the ghost goal. I know the game you mean now & no it wasn't one of his finest moments!
That said it came at a time where everyone (and yes that's an overstated generalisation) seemed to be hyper-critical of him. I've seen tiny errors that he has made be blown all out of proportion that proved the point he was 'the worst ref ever' and justified his position particularly in the media as the poster boy for poor refereeing, that wouldn't even have rated a mention had they been made by one of the more popular refs. He was just a kid back then, unfairly promoted too early (not his decision and you can't blame him for not saying I'm not sure I'm ready yet) and then left to flounder with little or no support, it's no wonder his confidence took a massive nose dive. Michael Oliver greatly benefitted from Stuart's demise in that whilst he was also pushed very young, he was also managed far better and there was a better support network in place with him so they did not repeat the same mistakes. Yes he's an all round better referee as well but he was very well managed as a kid, which helped a lot to shape his future. The same can be said for other youngsters who have come onto the scene after them in that they are managed better and protected more. A positive step by the powers that be & I'm glad the lessons were actually learned but the media/managers and even some of us on here (that's not a dig) can't resist the urge to bring up that very unhappy period for him that was not really of his making. I felt sorry for him then & I still do now, got a massive soft spot for the kid (I still think of him as a kid!) and a lot of respect for him for the way he took his demotion and turned into a positive by working his socks off to improve himself. I think his far too early promotion destroyed that early promise because of the whole knock on effect but he's a great little ref on his day & really no more error prone than anyone else. His errors though will always be jumped on that little bit quicker because of who he is.
I entirely concur with bmb's analysis. Attwell's first spell on SG1 ( or whatever it was called back then ) was fair neither to himself nor the Premier League. Promoted ludicrously quickly without the experience or maturity to cope with such an intense environment, achieving a FIFA badge in no time at all ( though it has to be said nowadays if you're the right age it's hard to avoid one !) his subsequent career meant that his demotion was inevitable and justified.
He deserves enormous credit for not giving up but sticking to his trade, learning and acquiring experience and therefore beginning to develop the potential which was seen in him from early on. Now deservedly he is back in SG1 and I would say has established himself as a middle order hitter comparable to Probert, Friend and Scott. I do not think he will ever achieve the heights of Atkinson, Oliver or Dean but he is a cut above Mason, Moss and East. I have little doubt that the appointment to an FA Cup Final will one day come his way.
Post by: Whistleblower on Wed 05 Dec 2018 05:35
Mods, if you can extricate my contribution and separate it from Readingfan's I would be grateful.
Post by: Whistleblower on Wed 05 Dec 2018 05:36
Post by: Steelman on Wed 05 Dec 2018 11:15
I think you are thinking of the Watford V Reading game; whilst I think Attwell was still culpable to some extent, it is true Nigel Bannister was most to blame.
Attwell made a dog's dinner of Forest V Derby all by himself.
That said, it was over 10 years ago so don't think it should especially follow him around now. He's managed to carve out a decent enough career at this level over the past few seasons, if it has not reached the heights that the authorities were perhaps expecting/hoping for a decade or so ago.
Ah yes, thanks for the correction, I was thinking of that game & the ghost goal. I know the game you mean now & no it wasn't one of his finest moments!
That said it came at a time where everyone (and yes that's an overstated generalisation) seemed to be hyper-critical of him. I've seen tiny errors that he has made be blown all out of proportion that proved the point he was 'the worst ref ever' and justified his position particularly in the media as the poster boy for poor refereeing, that wouldn't even have rated a mention had they been made by one of the more popular refs. He was just a kid back then, unfairly promoted too early (not his decision and you can't blame him for not saying I'm not sure I'm ready yet) and then left to flounder with little or no support, it's no wonder his confidence took a massive nose dive. Michael Oliver greatly benefitted from Stuart's demise in that whilst he was also pushed very young, he was also managed far better and there was a better support network in place with him so they did not repeat the same mistakes. Yes he's an all round better referee as well but he was very well managed as a kid, which helped a lot to shape his future. The same can be said for other youngsters who have come onto the scene after them in that they are managed better and protected more. A positive step by the powers that be & I'm glad the lessons were actually learned but the media/managers and even some of us on here (that's not a dig) can't resist the urge to bring up that very unhappy period for him that was not really of his making. I felt sorry for him then & I still do now, got a massive soft spot for the kid (I still think of him as a kid!) and a lot of respect for him for the way he took his demotion and turned into a positive by working his socks off to improve himself. I think his far too early promotion destroyed that early promise because of the whole knock on effect but he's a great little ref on his day & really no more error prone than anyone else. His errors though will always be jumped on that little bit quicker because of who he is.
I always thought that Stuart Attwell was an easy target in his first spell on the Premier League list. And, I also think that some of that came from him being the "favoured child" of David Elleray who seemed to want to push Attwell as far and as fast as he could. This did not sit well with people whether that was out of jealousy or out of a disliking for Lord Elleray as he was referred to I don't know, could be both. It does show the character of Attwell to bounce back and to a large extent prove his critics wrong.
Post by: bmb on Wed 05 Dec 2018 12:30
My use of technology has again failed me. In my last post I have somehow managed to attribute my words to a quote by Readingfan to whom I apologise. I should point out that the first two paragraphs are my thoughts, the last three are Readingfan's.
Mods, if you can extricate my contribution and separate it from Readingfan's I would be grateful.
Fixed along with your spelling
C- for you! ;D
Post by: JCFC on Wed 05 Dec 2018 12:35
C- for you! ;D
In best pantomime tradition "Oh no you haven't!"
Post by: bmb on Wed 05 Dec 2018 12:44
Fixed ... your spelling
C- for you! ;D
In best pantomime tradition "Oh no you haven't!"
Did I miss one? I got wil not will!!!
C+ for bmb ;D
Post by: JCFC on Wed 05 Dec 2018 12:49
Post by: Whistleblower on Wed 05 Dec 2018 13:47
Post by: JCFC on Wed 05 Dec 2018 15:15
Post by: Whistleblower on Wed 05 Dec 2018 16:20
Poor Lucia, once or twice in my refereeing career, when I know I've lost control of the match , I've felt somewhat like her !!
Post by: bmb on Wed 05 Dec 2018 17:23
Look again at reply #24
Ah hahahaha!!! I was only looking at the post that he messed up the quote on and not his next post!! I have just spent 5 mins reading and re-reading that one & then running it through word to find the spelling error I missed
That's it enough of you lot I'm off to watch the rest of Kaposvári Rákóczi v Újpest in the Magyar Kupa Round 8! Got to love the professionalism in Hungary - there are 12 rounds in total in the Magyar Kupa, the equivalent of the FA Cup in England, so the next stage is the round of 16, then quarter finals, semi final & final. There's not even a 4th official appointed at this stage, let alone AAR's!
Post by: Microscopist on Thu 06 Dec 2018 23:30
Poor Lucia, once or twice in my refereeing career, when I know I've lost control of the match , I've felt somewhat like her !!"
I must admit to wondering whether this was a slightly oscure metaphorical reference to Mrs May's dilemma.
"Based on Walter Scott’s novel The Bride of Lammermoor, the story traces how Lucia, an innocent woman, is manipulated by the men in her life until, no longer willing to submit to their control, she descends into insanity."
Post by: JCFC on Fri 07 Dec 2018 09:11
Post by: Whistleblower on Fri 07 Dec 2018 09:12
Post by: Whistleblower on Fri 07 Dec 2018 09:25
We have come a long way from Chris Kavanagh, perhaps more than six degrees of separation although, you never know, he may be an opera fan.
Post by: guest42 on Sat 08 Dec 2018 19:56
Post by: bmb on Sat 08 Dec 2018 20:13
Hearing reports that he’s been awarded the FIFA Badge for 2019
Yes he was named on the list Vlad published on here yesterday or the day before.
Post by: nemesis on Sat 08 Dec 2018 21:24
Look again at reply #24
Ah hahahaha!!! I was only looking at the post that he messed up the quote on and not his next post!! I have just spent 5 mins reading and re-reading that one & then running it through word to find the spelling error I missed
That's it enough of you lot I'm off to watch the rest of Kaposvári Rákóczi v Újpest in the Magyar Kupa Round 8! Got to love the professionalism in Hungary - there are 12 rounds in total in the Magyar Kupa, the equivalent of the FA Cup in England, so the next stage is the round of 16, then quarter finals, semi final & final. There's not even a 4th official appointed at this stage, let alone AAR's!
The FA Cup has 14 rounds.
Post by: bmb on Sun 09 Dec 2018 02:07
Look again at reply #24
Ah hahahaha!!! I was only looking at the post that he messed up the quote on and not his next post!! I have just spent 5 mins reading and re-reading that one & then running it through word to find the spelling error I missed
That's it enough of you lot I'm off to watch the rest of Kaposvári Rákóczi v Újpest in the Magyar Kupa Round 8! Got to love the professionalism in Hungary - there are 12 rounds in total in the Magyar Kupa, the equivalent of the FA Cup in England, so the next stage is the round of 16, then quarter finals, semi final & final. There's not even a 4th official appointed at this stage, let alone AAR's!
The FA Cup has 14 rounds.
There's a lot more teams here in the UK compared to Hungary! Are your 14 rounds including the preliminary rounds to even qualify for the proper rounds? Ours is 12 including right from county level up! No matter the amount of rounds, it doesn't change the fact that at the round of 32 ie round 8 we don't even have 4th officials appointed - these are games that include the top league teams, who join in from round 6. Oh and my team lost! Only the 4th time in 22 years that the cup holders have been eliminated before the winter break according to my lovely friend Gergely, who is a walking, talking encyclopedia of Magyar Foci!!
Post by: nemesis on Sun 09 Dec 2018 12:24
Look again at reply #24
Ah hahahaha!!! I was only looking at the post that he messed up the quote on and not his next post!! I have just spent 5 mins reading and re-reading that one & then running it through word to find the spelling error I missed
That's it enough of you lot I'm off to watch the rest of Kaposvári Rákóczi v Újpest in the Magyar Kupa Round 8! Got to love the professionalism in Hungary - there are 12 rounds in total in the Magyar Kupa, the equivalent of the FA Cup in England, so the next stage is the round of 16, then quarter finals, semi final & final. There's not even a 4th official appointed at this stage, let alone AAR's!
The FA Cup has 14 rounds.
There's a lot more teams here in the UK compared to Hungary! Are your 14 rounds including the preliminary rounds to even qualify for the proper rounds? Ours is 12 including right from county level up! No matter the amount of rounds, it doesn't change the fact that at the round of 32 ie round 8 we don't even have 4th officials appointed - these are games that include the top league teams, who join in from round 6. Oh and my team lost! Only the 4th time in 22 years that the cup holders have been eliminated before the winter break according to my lovely friend Gergely, who is a walking, talking encyclopedia of Magyar Foci!!
Yep, the whole lot starting in early August and finishing in May.
Are Hungarian winters more predictable than ours. The idea of a true weather-induced break seems a bit hit or miss to me. Of course if it's just to give our pampered superstars a couple of weeks off to work on their image rights and the like I guess it doesn't matter.
Post by: bmb on Sun 09 Dec 2018 14:29
Are Hungarian winters more predictable than ours. The idea of a true weather-induced break seems a bit hit or miss to me. Of course if it's just to give our pampered superstars a couple of weeks off to work on their image rights and the like I guess it doesn't matter.
Very predictable! Even during the last international break the ref was wearing gloves in one of the Hungary games as it was -6 in Budapest pre-match, he stopped short of a wooly hat & gloves but the poor lad looked frozen! It had edged up (or down I guess) to -10 by the end of the game. They obviously cope overall better with the snow & ice because they are used to it and good job too because there is lots of it! Mr bmb was stuck there last winter for a few of weeks because the road leading to the Hungarian branch of bmb towers was under 10 feet of snow & it's not that rural! It is up a hill and the houses are up on a bank about 6 feet high on either side, the road just disappeared completely and the snow was up to about ground floor window height at the house. Time it had cleared enough to safely pass, he was then unable to fly because Luton airport was closed due to 1 inch of snow! Time that cleared we had 6 feet in Hungary again!! Winter sports are quite popular, lots of places to ski in the mountainous region to the North. The Duna often freezes in places, not the whole way across but last year I did stand watching huge chunks of ice, 3-4 feet wide floating past which was mad! A few of the games early in the spring season were called off due to snow on the pitch or frozen pitches, even in the NB1 where the teams all have undersoil heating. This year we break up a week later than last season and start back a week or maybe 2 later. It is a true weather break not just a chance for the pampered superstars to sun themselves in Bali!
Our road last winter, once it was passable!! Photo taken end of Feb.
(https://ratetheref.createaforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmygdesign.co.uk%2Fimages%2FZetaThemes%2FDXYJ6BZW4AMP56q.jpg&hash=fd78cde53dd73b8ec0414da70100f3fa824dba23)