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General Refereeing => General Discussion => Topic started by: Boz on Mon 31 May 2021 16:00

Title: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Boz on Mon 31 May 2021 16:00
A few incidents in the first half where Mr Madley has let things go when perhaps intervention required;

Morecambe keeper goes to punch the ball clear and makes no contact with the ball but does hit the Newport player, no penalty given.

Handball by Morecambe player where the ball is then crossed into the box, but nothing comes of it. AR was on the opposite side, couldn't be sure what Mr Madley saw.

Two footed challenge by Newport's Sheehan in Morecambe half , winning the ball but taking out the player in the follow through. Mr Madley plays on.

Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Ashington46 on Mon 31 May 2021 16:10
Good to see that he has lost his PL hat and is refereeing a proper game of football instead of the sterile game which is played at the elite level.
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Charlieboy on Mon 31 May 2021 17:24
If I were a Newport fan I'd be feeling a little sore about the subjective decisions made today. Not a bad performance by any means but surely not sg2 either His questionable decisions have clearly decided a promotion and I think bobby will be disappointed when he looks back on this game .
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: John Treleven on Mon 31 May 2021 17:44
To have your whole season decided by a decision like that will rankle for a long time
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: ajb95 on Mon 31 May 2021 18:03
Sorry but that penalty decision is nothing short of a disgrace. Looked like was in initially going to wave it away and then is pressured into giving it. One itís not even a foul and 2 itís outside the box.

Considering the penalty he didnít give to Newport they can feel very much aggrieved.

Deary me! :-[
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Boz on Mon 31 May 2021 18:10
The penalty Mr Madley did award appeared to be as a result of contact outside the area and wasn't convinced at first glance there was enough to justify any foul. I also felt the YC for Newport's Demetriou seemed harsh two players seemed to be jumping for the ball and contact made in the context of cards he didn't issue elsewhere. Overall I'd agree with Charlieboy's assessment and after the plaudits for his handling of the L1 semi-final definitely a step backwards today.
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Ashington46 on Mon 31 May 2021 18:56
The penalty Mr Madley did award appeared to be as a result of contact outside the area and wasn't convinced at first glance there was enough to justify any foul. I also felt the YC for Newport's Demetriou seemed harsh two players seemed to be jumping for the ball and contact made in the context of cards he didn't issue elsewhere. Overall I'd agree with Charlieboy's assessment and after the plaudits for his handling of the L1 semi-final definitely a step backwards today.

Sadly, this is the way the modern game has been going for a few seasons with players 'feeling contact' and going down which is exactly what happened with the penalty. Minimal contact which was made just outside the box, however, I can understand how it looked a foul from the referee's positioning which was behind the players.
I think that Demetriou was cautioned for something he said because the Morecambe player stayed down and Demetriou definitely said something to the referee and that was when the card was produced.
Newport will feel aggrieved, however, they missed chances to win the game and Morecambe grabbed their opportunity when it was presented.
League One teams will be able to go to the seaside in Lancashire having thought that they had missed out with Blackpool's promotion.
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: JCFC on Mon 31 May 2021 19:10
League One teams will be able to go to the seaside in Lancashire having thought that they had missed out with Blackpool's promotion.


Don't forget Fleetwood!
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: nemesis on Mon 31 May 2021 22:04
Sorry but that penalty decision is nothing short of a disgrace. Looked like was in initially going to wave it away and then is pressured into giving it. One itís not even a foul and 2 itís outside the box.

Considering the penalty he didnít give to Newport they can feel very much aggrieved.

Deary me! :-[

Dear me indeed. That was the sort of match defining, injustice ridden performance that I thought we had seen the back of from him 3 years ago.

He must have a soft spot for Morecambe as it was there he started his comeback from exile. Would that his exile had been as long as Newport's.
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: GameDay2021 on Mon 31 May 2021 22:26
Just watching back highlights

Newport should've had a pen in first half

Multiple cases let go throughout game

Pen is a free kick

I'd suggest going to Andy for some help Bobby
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Hendo on Mon 31 May 2021 22:40
Well if that game was intended as a test to see if he is worthy of promotion to SG2 it was pretty conclusive - not good enough by a country mile. Very poor, random performance.
It will be an injustice if he does get the nod bit I very much suspect that the powers that be have already made up their minds and sadly we will see this overrated individual in SG2 next season. 🤬
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Hughesy66 on Tue 01 Jun 2021 00:19
I donít remember seeing a comment from Nemesis and Hendo when Mr Madley had a fine performance at Oxford in the semi finals and yet here they are today. It would almost seem like an agenda against this individual.

I felt some of the decisions were questionable, the early penalty decision with the challenge on the goalkeeper in slow motion is clear to see but in full speed I donít think is as clear.

As for the penalty, I may be in a minority here but there is clearly a push albeit the attacker makes the most of it. The contact begins outside the area and the push ends inside the area, Sky said exactly this point. That therefore makes it a penalty kick.

Throughout the game it was very clear that Mr Madley commanded the respect of the players and smiled a lot with them. No cautions in 90 minutes and I just find it very sad that none of the people on here have ever had the pressure of such a game to deal with so we cannot possibly understand how that must feel to referee. It just seems like the same names every week cannot wait to jump on certain referees at any opportunity.

On reflection, Iíd say a soft penalty to win the game but by no means incorrect and totally wrong to say it was outside as some have. As an observer I would be saying a well controlled game, a confident referee who moved well throughout, experience was clear to see to slow the game down when needed...but a referees life hinges on one or two big decisions. For me the first could be given on another day, the one that was is absolutely not incorrect. A push is a foul and it continued into the penalty area. Iím staggered to see how people can say that is such a bad decision. In my opinion that would never have been overturned by VAR which maybe says enough.

*****(Last comment edited do not abuse other posters , not acceptable on this forum !)****
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: REDSTRIPE on Tue 01 Jun 2021 08:34
I donít remember seeing a comment from Nemesis and Hendo when Mr Madley had a fine performance at Oxford in the semi finals and yet here they are today. It would almost seem like an agenda against this individual.

I felt some of the decisions were questionable, the early penalty decision with the challenge on the goalkeeper in slow motion is clear to see but in full speed I donít think is as clear.

As for the penalty, I may be in a minority here but there is clearly a push albeit the attacker makes the most of it. The contact begins outside the area and the push ends inside the area, Sky said exactly this point. That therefore makes it a penalty kick.

Throughout the game it was very clear that Mr Madley commanded the respect of the players and smiled a lot with them. No cautions in 90 minutes and I just find it very sad that none of the people on here have ever had the pressure of such a game to deal with so we cannot possibly understand how that must feel to referee. It just seems like the same names every week cannot wait to jump on certain referees at any opportunity.

On reflection, Iíd say a soft penalty to win the game but by no means incorrect and totally wrong to say it was outside as some have. As an observer I would be saying a well controlled game, a confident referee who moved well throughout, experience was clear to see to slow the game down when needed...but a referees life hinges on one or two big decisions. For me the first could be given on another day, the one that was is absolutely not incorrect. A push is a foul and it continued into the penalty area. Iím staggered to see how people can say that is such a bad decision. In my opinion that would never have been overturned by VAR which maybe says enough.

***Edited removed comment from original post***
(edited)if you think that was a penalty!!
You seem to be the only one who does............bad bit of observing that!
I thought he was poor throughout.......the players weren't respecting him.....in fact Newport were getting more and more frustrated with his odd decisions.......poor understanding of what a foul is or isn't etc
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Hughesy66 on Tue 01 Jun 2021 09:38
Well letís break it down then. Is there a push? Yes there is. Thatís fact. It then becomes a matter of opinion as to whether you (or Mr Madley in this case) believe it was sufficient force to make him fall over. Moving at speed as they were, itís possible. I did say the play makes the most of it which he clearly does but the angle that shows it from where the referee is looks a very clear penalty in my opinion so I can accept why he awarded it.

Did the Ďfoulí continue into the penalty area? Yes it did. That is a fact. So again it is purely down to the interpretation of whether the push had enough force for a foul. The Sky pundits accepted the foul, their expert analysis however said even though it started outside and finished inside a free kick was a better decision. Clearly they are wrong in law here.

So Iím not the only one in cloud cuckoo land at all as you suggest. The Sky pundits accept it was a foul but questioned the restart. I think from the angle the referee had it looks a clear foul, the referee gets one view remember, only their view. They donít have the benefit of a replay to decide if it was a bit soft or not
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: ajb95 on Tue 01 Jun 2021 12:08
How many times do we see a penalty given for the goalkeeper missing the ball and punching the attacker in the head?

I canít remember any...
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: nemesis on Tue 01 Jun 2021 13:41
I donít remember seeing a comment from Nemesis and Hendo when Mr Madley had a fine performance at Oxford in the semi finals and yet here they are today.

Haters gonna hate though arenít they Hendo and Nemesis...such a shame

That'd be because I didn't see that "fine" performance.

My hate generally centres on injustice. No shame in that.
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Hughesy66 on Tue 01 Jun 2021 14:02
Hate?? Wow

The injustice of what? I have seen certain members have these views for a long time, I read the page for a long time before becoming a member and this always intrigued me.
Genuinely, was there an incident that Mr Madley did that would lead to your hatred?
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Ashington46 on Tue 01 Jun 2021 15:13
How many times do we see a penalty given for the goalkeeper missing the ball and punching the attacker in the head?

I canít remember any...

Certainly not in the way that this actually played out. Keeper was committed and it did not affect the header which the attacker got in.
It is an imposiibilty for a player to stop when he is in mid air as the keeper was.
I suppose that the next thing IFAB can bring in will be that a keeper is not allowed to punch a ball because it constitutes a danger to an opponent ----oh I forgot ------and it might hurt the ball.

It is interesting that the clamour for VAR comes about when it isn't there, however, the clamour to get rid of it is consistently mentioned when it is there!
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: REDSTRIPE on Tue 01 Jun 2021 15:18
How many times do we see a penalty given for the goalkeeper missing the ball and punching the attacker in the head?

I canít remember any...

Certainly not in the way that this actually played out. Keeper was committed and it did not affect the header which the attacker got in.
It is an imposiibilty for a player to stop when he is in mid air as the keeper was.
I suppose that the next thing IFAB can bring in will be that a keeper is not allowed to punch a ball because it constitutes a danger to an opponent ----oh I forgot ------and it might hurt the ball.

It is interesting that the clamour for VAR comes about when it isn't there, however, the clamour to get rid of it is consistently mentioned when it is there!
Use VAR correctly and it's ok..............but they don't even follow their own 'rules'!
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: BAFRA #217 on Tue 01 Jun 2021 17:32
Hate?? Wow

The injustice of what? I have seen certain members have these views for a long time, I read the page for a long time before becoming a member and this always intrigued me.
Genuinely, was there an incident that Mr Madley did that would lead to your hatred?

To play Devilís advocate here - youíre the one who brought the word ďhateĒ into this first.

Nemesis simply defending the slur on his character you threw his way.
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Hendo on Tue 01 Jun 2021 23:10
I donít remember seeing a comment from Nemesis and Hendo when Mr Madley had a fine performance at Oxford in the semi finals and yet here they are today.

Haters gonna hate though arenít they Hendo and Nemesis...such a shame

That'd be because I didn't see that "fine" performance.

My hate generally centres on injustice. No shame in that.

My own negative view of Madley has been aired for a long time - a very overrated ref who was promoted to SG1 and FIFA for reasons I could never fathom. He then proceeded to get a spate of top games, in many of which he displayed a certain degree of arrogance in his attitude towards the player - ďI am the great Booby Madley and nobody messes with meĒ. (Yes I know others claim he is not at all like that but that is the impression he gave me and I know he gave others too).
He then had a season of very underwhelming performances, during which as we know he was suspended and then fired by the PGMOL. His crime, in case Hughes66 is not aware, was sending what he thought was a hilarious text to a friend about a disabled person - to me another show of arrogance on his part - which his shocked friend shared with Madleys employers who terminated his contract.
As someone who has worked extensively with disabled and special needs adults and children I have found them some of the loveliest and bravest people who bear their difficulties with great courage and dignity, which made my blood boil at Madleys attitude. To me that alone was unforgivable and should have been the end of his career.
But no; a spell in Norway trying to climb the ladder there while living with a new partner was followed by a return here for some reason, a contrite cap in hand approach to the FA and they amazingly took him back. One year on there is talk already of him being back to SG2 and SG1, which must rankle with those honest toilers in the lower divisions who give 109% each week hoping for the chance of a step up the ladder and yet this arrant individual walks back into the frame and gets immediate promotion.
I know many wonít agree with me but this will always be my attitude towards Madley.,
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Irishref1985 on Tue 01 Jun 2021 23:17
I'll hold my hands up and say that I have often come onto this forum with my rose tinted glasses of seeing an incident and going on a rant because a referee annoys me so much. I accept I have done that in the past, and for that I apologise. I held back yesterday because I find it hard to accept how any referee, never mind one who was a FIFA official, could give a penalty like the one Bobby gave. It was an astonishing decision in my view. If he sees a push then he is in a very, very, very small minority. To make a decision in such a high profiled game of that magnitude he has to be 200% correct. Shocking in my view.
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: justalino on Wed 02 Jun 2021 09:28
Lots of opinions here and I start from the neutral position of not having seen the game or any of the incidents mentioned.  But some of the comments are literally staggering.

The implication that any decision Bobby did or didn't give 'decided promotion' is frankly ludicrous.  I'm a Northampton fan and our team in 2015 with Chris Wilder in charge absolutely wiped the floor with everyone in L2 (this is a once in a 70 year occurrence). When pressed by a journalist for a soundbite on a controversial refereeing decision he said 'Referees will make mistakes.  Some will go for you, some will go against you.  I set up my team to be good enough for neither of those things to matter'. One poster here has said Newport missed numerous chances - maybe that's the root cause of the result.  Get your own house in order first.

And one person said the referee needs to be '200% correct before giving a decision in a game like that'. I'm not even sure where to start with that.  I think you'll find it's the referee's job to give decisions, so if he waits until he's '200% correct' we'll have 90 minutes without him blowing his whistle.

It sounds like Bobby hasn't covered himself in glory and as the showpiece game of his season I would imagine no-one will be more disappointed in that than him.  But whatever the opposite saying is for 'one swallow doesn't make a summer' applies here.  His suitability to be an SG2 referee won't be judged on that one game and nor should it.  His performances over the season have made him number 1, unsurprising as you don't become a FIFA referee by accident.

A disappointing end to an outstanding season for him.
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: PhiltheRef on Wed 02 Jun 2021 09:32
I will agree with Hughesy66 that there wasn't a plethora of congratulatory posts about the Semi Final performance.

There seldom are when there is a performance of a level you would expect from a former SG1 and FIFA Official.

The performance in the final was, IMHO, well beneath the level required of a Referee aspiring to return even to SG2.

Maybe we had been spoiled by the Champions League performance?
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Skydank on Wed 02 Jun 2021 09:34
I've watched Mr Madley a couple of times this season via ifollow and I thought his self confidence at times moved into the realm of arrogance as mentioned by a previous poster...it did seem at times it was all about him and league 1 was a bit below him... A shame because when he just concentrated on the refereeing he was very good
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Ref Watcher on Wed 02 Jun 2021 09:36
How many times do we see a penalty given for the goalkeeper missing the ball and punching the attacker in the head?

I canít remember any...

Certainly not in the way that this actually played out. Keeper was committed and it did not affect the header which the attacker got in.
It is an imposiibilty for a player to stop when he is in mid air as the keeper was.
But the same is true of a tackle which brings a player down rather than wins the ball because their opponent got there first.  If the tackler / puncher is committed and unable to withdraw when they are beaten to the ball by their opponent, they have been careless at best and possibly reckless.  Either way it is a foul.
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Hughesy66 on Wed 02 Jun 2021 09:48
Iím sure if Madley had been that arrogant all season and acted like these leagues were below him then he wouldnít have been appointed to this game which I assume shows he finished as number 1.

I believe referees are marked by observers and clubs at this level so clearly the people who watched him week in week out over the last 9 months felt he was the best performing referee.

I also think itís unfair to criticise when a referee is felt to be under par but when they have an excellent game we have the attitude of we we expect that. If an excellent performance is expected of this referee every game then that doesnít quite fit the narrative on here that he isnít good enough for the next level?? You would expect excellence because the referee is in your opinion excellent generally to have gained that reputation...surely you canít say you expect him to be excellent and then say heís always rubbish in the same breath 😂
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Leggy on Wed 02 Jun 2021 10:07
Lots of opinions here and I start from the neutral position of not having seen the game or any of the incidents mentioned.  But some of the comments are literally staggering.

The implication that any decision Bobby did or didn't give 'decided promotion' is frankly ludicrous.  I'm a Northampton fan and our team in 2015 with Chris Wilder in charge absolutely wiped the floor with everyone in L2 (this is a once in a 70 year occurrence). When pressed by a journalist for a soundbite on a controversial refereeing decision he said 'Referees will make mistakes.  Some will go for you, some will go against you.  I set up my team to be good enough for neither of those things to matter'. One poster here has said Newport missed numerous chances - maybe that's the root cause of the result.  Get your own house in order first.

And one person said the referee needs to be '200% correct before giving a decision in a game like that'. I'm not even sure where to start with that.  I think you'll find it's the referee's job to give decisions, so if he waits until he's '200% correct' we'll have 90 minutes without him blowing his whistle.

It sounds like Bobby hasn't covered himself in glory and as the showpiece game of his season I would imagine no-one will be more disappointed in that than him.  But whatever the opposite saying is for 'one swallow doesn't make a summer' applies here.  His suitability to be an SG2 referee won't be judged on that one game and nor should it.  His performances over the season have made him number 1, unsurprising as you don't become a FIFA referee by accident.

A disappointing end to an outstanding season for him.

I would almost always disagree with a statement - whether it is made by a player, manager or fan - that a single decision cost their team the game, promotion or forced them to be relegated.  Over a season the best teams in a league end up at the top and the worst ones end up at the bottom.

But the play-offs (exciting that they can be) are a cup semi-final and final used to decide which of four sides should receive a final promotion place.  And a penalty decision in the second half of extra time of a tight final (no goals, few clear-cut chances) does come close to being a game decider.  And if that decision is incorrect it makes the argument that "the referee's decision cost us promotion" harder to refute.

The first-half penalty decision, however, does not justify the same argument.  The penalty kick might not have been converted.  Had Newport scored a very different (more open?) game would have ensued.

Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: TVOS on Wed 02 Jun 2021 11:47
I've watched Mr Madley a couple of times this season via ifollow and I thought his self confidence at times moved into the realm of arrogance as mentioned by a previous poster...it did seem at times it was all about him and league 1 was a bit below him... A shame because when he just concentrated on the refereeing he was very good

Yet in contrast, I saw him referee Rochdale twice in League 1 and once in the EFL Trophy and didn't see anything whatsoever of this perceived arrogance and the games being beneath him.

I did see him make some poor decisions that weren't befitting someone of his (previous) status and ability, but he seemed to have full respect of all the players and they of him.
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Charlieboy on Wed 02 Jun 2021 13:13
I've watched Mr Madley a couple of times this season via ifollow and I thought his self confidence at times moved into the realm of arrogance as mentioned by a previous poster...it did seem at times it was all about him and league 1 was a bit below him... A shame because when he just concentrated on the refereeing he was very good

Yet in contrast, I saw him referee Rochdale twice in League 1 and once in the EFL Trophy and didn't see anything whatsoever of this perceived arrogance and the games being beneath him.

I did see him make some poor decisions that weren't befitting someone of his (previous) status and ability, but he seemed to have full respect of all the players and they of him.
I too saw him referee in league one and thought him very good , in fact I felt his big positive was his attitude towards and relationship with the players , like I said earlier the performance in the final was below par and Iím sure he will be disappointed but letís not hang him out to dry as Iím certain he didnít do it on purpose.
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: ECity77 on Wed 02 Jun 2021 16:21
I think Bobby Madley will be back in the premier league very soon. As he use to get a lot of the big games when he  refereed in the premier league.
If you look at the select group referees like Mike Dean, Martin Atkinson, Jon Moss, Lee Mason, Andre Marriner and Graham Scott. They must be coming to an end to there refereeing career.
So that leaves Micheal Oliver, Stuart Attwell, Antony Taylor, Paul Tierney and Chris Kavanagh who will referee the bigger and majority of PL games.
I just think they will re-promote Bobby Madley because of his past PL experience and that is something they could lose a lot in the next coming seasons. As who in select group 2 will be seen as PL material in the coming seasons? Jarred Gillett?
As Andrew Madley, Robert Jones, Simon Hooper and Peter Banks never get a look in for PL games.
Title: Re: Robert Madley L2 Play-off Final Morecambe v Newport
Post by: Acme Thunderer on Wed 02 Jun 2021 20:16
In agreeing with what you say ECity77, ref your last line, I do believe that any of the four you mention will start to get games in greater numbers if they stand out from the crowd, and particularly if/when they gain their FIFA badges as I think A Madley and Bankes have already done. Slow beginnings seems to be the order of the day and some, like Hooper and Scott, stay that way on the fringes whilst others progress to bigger games and more frequent PL appointments. And I see no harm in that at all, particularly if it means the 'blue-eyed Attwell' scenario (first time around) can be avoided in the future.