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General Refereeing => General Discussion => Topic started by: Hughesy66 on Thu 27 May 2021 16:14

Title: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Hughesy66 on Thu 27 May 2021 16:14
I have heard that the invitations are out for the promotion interviews.

I have also heard two names of assistant referees who have them (NL to SG2AR) but just wondering if these have been officially released yet, if if they ever do get formally released?
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: DublinRef on Thu 27 May 2021 16:21
Are promotion interviews in place all the way up to SG1?

What, would anyone know, is usually asked during these interviews? I would have thought on pitch performance was really all they needed to know although I suppose with it being a job now at SG1 and SG2 there's a lot more to it.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: RCG on Thu 27 May 2021 21:32
Test on LoTG, questions relating to match situations "what happens if...", questions relating to competition rules, emphasis id imagine on dealing with abuse from crowds etc
Situations to make you think, show clarity under pressure, man management skills etc
Whilst on field performance is a high priority these other things are important.
I am reasonably sure ARs from NL to FL dont have interviews, im not sure they do from FL to SG2 unless this has changed
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: DublinRef on Thu 27 May 2021 21:45
Test on LoTG, questions relating to match situations "what happens if...", questions relating to competition rules, emphasis id imagine on dealing with abuse from crowds etc
Situations to make you think, show clarity under pressure, man management skills etc
Whilst on field performance is a high priority these other things are important.
I am reasonably sure ARs from NL to FL dont have interviews, im not sure they do from FL to SG2 unless this has changed

Many thanks RCG, makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: justalino on Fri 28 May 2021 09:22
Test on LoTG, questions relating to match situations "what happens if...", questions relating to competition rules, emphasis id imagine on dealing with abuse from crowds etc
Situations to make you think, show clarity under pressure, man management skills etc
Whilst on field performance is a high priority these other things are important.
I am reasonably sure ARs from NL to FL dont have interviews, im not sure they do from FL to SG2 unless this has changed

No interviews for National League assistants being promoted to the EFL, but they do for EFL to SG2.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Ref Watcher on Fri 28 May 2021 11:00
Test on LoTG, questions relating to match situations "what happens if...", questions relating to competition rules, emphasis id imagine on dealing with abuse from crowds etc
Situations to make you think, show clarity under pressure, man management skills etc
Whilst on field performance is a high priority these other things are important.
I am reasonably sure ARs from NL to FL dont have interviews, im not sure they do from FL to SG2 unless this has changed
And also presentations by the candidates to the interviewing panel demonstrating their abilities, using video clips, etc.  Role playing scenarios.  It is what you would expect of a job interview for a senior position.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Hughesy66 on Sat 29 May 2021 07:56
Iím not sure how accurate this is but I have heard that the referees invited to interview to move to SG1 are Harrington, Gillett, Brooks, Stroud and Salisbury

FL to SG2 are Hicks, Madley, Busby, Drysdale, Bramall and Coy

FL AR to SG2 I have only heard Hunt and Liddle (Iím sure there are more)
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Mackem ref on Sat 29 May 2021 08:24
Those names would certainly fit the play off appointments. If true, Iíd be very surprised if Stroud is promoted. Whilst not wanting to be ageist, promoting him at 51 is not going to be a long term vision for the future of refereeing!

Even though Mason is the only ref leaving the list, a sensible thing to do would be to promote 3 news refs and allow them to bed in. A lot of referees on SG1 are similar in age around late 40s early 50s and wonít continue refereeing forever!

In terms of names missing, Iím surprised by the lack of Robinson and Breakspear, but itís worth remembering these names are a rumour and seemingly have no other evidence than hearsay!
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: greeny on Sat 29 May 2021 10:58
Interesting list, if accurate.  This seems to indicate that Stroud has turned it around after a big dip in performance after that penalty error he made a couple of years ago.  Salisbury must have had a good 1st year on SG2 to already be considered for SG1, but it's possibly a year too early for him.  Gillett should be a definite for SG1 next year, and then can give or take Brooks and/or Harrington.

I would definitely expect to see Madley in SG2 for next year.  However many go up to SG1 will probably determine how many will join him.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: TVOS on Sat 29 May 2021 13:58
Iím not sure how accurate this is but I have heard that the referees invited to interview to move to SG1 are Harrington, Gillett, Brooks, Stroud and Salisbury

FL to SG2 are Hicks, Madley, Busby, Drysdale, Bramall and Coy

FL AR to SG2 I have only heard Hunt and Liddle (Iím sure there are more)

Liddle? If it's who I'm thinking of, he must be one of the oldest ARs going!
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: TVOS on Sat 29 May 2021 13:59
Iím not sure how accurate this is but I have heard that the referees invited to interview to move to SG1 are Harrington, Gillett, Brooks, Stroud and Salisbury

FL to SG2 are Hicks, Madley, Busby, Drysdale, Bramall and Coy

FL AR to SG2 I have only heard Hunt and Liddle (Iím sure there are more)

Haven't you just quoted all the play-off referees there?
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: TheThingFromLewes on Sat 29 May 2021 14:38
I donít think it will be long before Madley is back in the top flight...

Jarred Gillett should be there without question, the leading ex international FIFA official in one of the largest countries plus experience with VAR should make him a lock.

Stroud seems very unlikely....

Gillett and Brooks get my vote... the rest Iíve not seen much of this season.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Hendo on Sat 29 May 2021 17:31
Iím not sure how accurate this is but I have heard that the referees invited to interview to move to SG1 are Harrington, Gillett, Brooks, Stroud and Salisbury

FL to SG2 are Hicks, Madley, Busby, Drysdale, Bramall and Coy

FL AR to SG2 I have only heard Hunt and Liddle (Iím sure there are more)

I have heard a rumour that Oliver will be kept on SG1 next year, Ward and Eltringham will still be SG2 and Alan Young wonít be promoted to join them.
Oh and grandad Walton wont be coming back out of retirement
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Hughesy66 on Sat 29 May 2021 22:25
All play off referees which I suppose one would expect, with the exception of Busby in the place of Breakspear who did a play off whereas Busby didnít. That would be very strange if so
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: GameDay2021 on Sat 29 May 2021 22:53
Don't take what I say for granted but my dad's mate currently is an advisor for the board on LOI Division 1 here in Ireland which is the 2nd tier

He is a football fanatic and would watch any football you put on the TV with enthusiasm

He has refing background as well

He said that in his opinion, Gillett and Harrington are miles ahead of the rest of the SG2

He also thinks that if he was in charge, he would demote Moss and Scott. He has a slight personal grudge against Moss but won't get into that. He thinks Scott performs better in Champ

Let me know your opinions
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Mackem ref on Sun 30 May 2021 10:39
If that is the case, it seems quite peculiar that he wasnít appointed to referee any of the play off games!
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Charlieboy on Mon 31 May 2021 17:57
I donít think it will be long before Madley is back in the top flight...

On todayís display he certainly doesnít deserve it yet
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: bmb on Tue 01 Jun 2021 00:10
Well I can state with 100% certainty that the pgmol have not invited Missy bmb to take over Mike Riley's job! My hat is still in the ring for a committee role at the MLSZ JB next month when the committee is up for election... Fixtures Secretary would do me nicely Dr CsŠnyi 😘
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: ryan80 on Tue 01 Jun 2021 07:37
Iím not sure how accurate this is but I have heard that the referees invited to interview to move to SG1 are Harrington, Gillett, Brooks, Stroud and Salisbury

FL to SG2 are Hicks, Madley, Busby, Drysdale, Bramall and Coy

FL AR to SG2 I have only heard Hunt and Liddle (Iím sure there are more)

The Daily Mail are reporting the same five as having interviews.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9638039/amp/Australian-Jarred-Gillett-five-EFL-referees-interviewed-promotion.html

Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: bmb on Tue 01 Jun 2021 08:54
They probably got that reading here, it wouldn't be the first time! They've even been known to quote a post word for word and add a source revealed or words to that effect!
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Hughesy66 on Tue 01 Jun 2021 09:40
Have I potentially become regarded as Ďa source close to PGMOLíí? Now that would be amusing 😂

If so that is very lazy journalism isnít it
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: greeny on Tue 01 Jun 2021 15:31
That article has received 80 replies, and 150 retweets on Twitter, so I hope he has not just taken it from here.  However, I would not be surprised if this site was the source.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Mackem ref on Fri 04 Jun 2021 13:21
I was hoping we might have heard something this week regarding promotions - any idea when the interviews are taking place and when we might find out about promotions?
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: bmb on Fri 04 Jun 2021 13:28
I would imagine we will hear news before the Euros start.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: T on Sat 05 Jun 2021 10:32
Darren Drysdale definitely has an interview...
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Hughesy66 on Sat 05 Jun 2021 11:22
I just canít see how given the incident this season that Drysdale would be promoted. He was found guilty and suspended. A promotion in the same season would seem quite incredible
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: DER on Sat 05 Jun 2021 13:50
The referees being interviewed for promotion are the following:

Select Group 2 → Select Group 1
- John Brooks
- Jarred Gillett
- Tony Harrington
- Keith Stroud
- Michael Salisbury

National List → Select Group 2
- Thomas Bramall
- John Busby
- Martin Coy
- Darren Drysdale
- Craig Hicks
- Bobby Madley
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: RCG on Sat 05 Jun 2021 14:53
Having met (and worked with) Keith S and Darren D I commend them on their achievement of being good enough to be considered for promotion. BUT for the life of me I cannot see how promoting either or both does anything but block up the bottle neck of promotion. It seems "we" have great trouble in getting the older/more experienced guys to move out as it is, without promoting guys in their late40s/early50s - bonkers!
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Charlieboy on Sat 05 Jun 2021 15:43
Am really pleased to see Darren drysdale given an interview after his troubles earlier in the season.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: nemesis on Sat 05 Jun 2021 16:38
Am really pleased to see Darren drysdale given an interview after his troubles earlier in the season.

Really?  It all seems rather perverse. All those seasons of, for me, steady, safe performances and then he goes of the rails, gets suspended and subsequently gets shortlisted for promotion. Simply unfathomable, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: TVOS on Sat 05 Jun 2021 16:48
Am really pleased to see Darren drysdale given an interview after his troubles earlier in the season.

Really?  It all seems rather perverse. All those seasons of, for me, steady, safe performances and then he goes of the rails, gets suspended and subsequently gets shortlisted for promotion. Simply unfathomable, I'm afraid.

Agree. I've seen an awful lot of him and his performances are usually in the 'average' category.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Whistleblower on Sat 05 Jun 2021 17:00
Fortunes rise and fortunes fall.  It wasn't that long ago that Joyce and Backhouse looked set fair for promotion to SG2. Now, if this list is to be believed, they don't even get an interview for it.

The powers that be clearly want Bobby Madley back at the top of English refereeing so I have little doubt he will progress and no doubt up to SG1 at the end of this next season. Whether he should or not is another matter but once the decision has been made to rehabilitate offenders then promotion should be decided on ability alone. No doubt the fans of Newport would have a view ! I suspect Hicks will join him and then it depends on how many places there are to fill.

Gillett and Harrington seem to be regarded as the best of the current crop of SG2 so may well make a move up. However, I believe the powers that be clearly see a glittering future for Brooks and Salisbury and so they cannot be discounted.

I guess position on the Merit Table determines whether one is called for interview. Or it jolly well should be. Then of course the process becomes far more subjective. It is not unknown, in many professions, if a marking grid is employed by an interview panel,  that whom they want to promote come out of the interview process with the best marks. Whatever systems are put in place it is nigh impossible to discount the power of patronage.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: ARF on Sat 05 Jun 2021 17:06
I find it strange that people are saying that the likes of Stroud and Drysdale shouldn't be considered for promotion due to their age or a minor disciplinary issue - if they have been two of the best performing referees this season then they deserve to be considered. I'm sure some would be quick to point the finger at the PGMOL if there were considering 'lesser' performing referees instead.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: TVOS on Sat 05 Jun 2021 17:52
I find it strange that people are saying that the likes of Stroud and Drysdale shouldn't be considered for promotion due to their age or a minor disciplinary issue - if they have been two of the best performing referees this season then they deserve to be considered. I'm sure some would be quick to point the finger at the PGMOL if there were considering 'lesser' performing referees instead.

I think the point is it doesn't really help the succession planning.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Hendo on Sat 05 Jun 2021 18:11
Is it only me or does someone else detect a bit of a pattern?
Clattenberg suspended for a few months - comes back, and the rest is history (even ignoring the Ed Sheehan fiasco)
Coote suspended for reasons which never became fully clear - returns to SG2, gets promoted to SG1 and FIFA
Stroud - demoted after 2 years in SG1 - now at 51 being offered a chance to return (age alone makes this staggering)
Madley for the reasons well documented is sacked - returns and looks likely he is now the prodigal son
Drysdale suspended earlier in season - now being interviewed for promotion (at 50 too!)

Maybe a hint to all aspiring for promotion but not getting noticed - donít just be an ordinary, genuine nice guy towing the line, step out of line a bit, be a rebel and see where that gets you!

Incidentally do we know how many in each category will be promoted? I assume being invited for interview does not necessarily mean promotion is a certain.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Mackem ref on Sat 05 Jun 2021 18:14
Well there will definitely be at least 1 to SG1 to replace Lee Mason - I personally believe they should promote 3 as there could well be a few more SG1 refs who opt for the specialised VAR route in the not too distant future!

As for SG2, it will depend how many go up to SG1. I think that they will replace those promoted to SG1 plus one more as I personally can't see Scott Duncan making a return!
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: DER on Sat 05 Jun 2021 18:18
All those that are being interviewed, have ranked on the top end of their respective merit tables.

In terms of those that have been suspended previously, I would not be surprised if these matters were brought up at interview-level with it informing further parts of the recruitment/shortlisting process, rather than individuals not being shortlisted for an interview at all - if that makes sense...

Apparently - three are to be promoted to Select Group 2, and two - but potentially three - are to be promoted to Select Group 1.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: JCFC on Sat 05 Jun 2021 18:21
It won't happen, of course, but I would like to see no promotions to SG1. In the fulness of time, SG! could gradually be limited to FIFA and ex-FIFA officials. The remainder could operate in SG2, allowing much greater flexibility in appointments for Premier League matches. It would take quite a few years to work its way through, but offers clear (to me, at least) advantages.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: JCFC on Sat 05 Jun 2021 22:10
...

In which case, would it not have been wise to refrain from making the posts you did?
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: bmb on Sat 05 Jun 2021 22:48
...

In which case, would it not have been wise to refrain from making the posts you did?


Which is exactly why I have removed both posts!
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Hughesy66 on Sat 05 Jun 2021 22:50
Apologies
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Whistleblower on Sat 05 Jun 2021 23:40
Is it only me or does someone else detect a bit of a pattern?
Clattenberg suspended for a few months - comes back, and the rest is history (even ignoring the Ed Sheehan fiasco)
Coote suspended for reasons which never became fully clear - returns to SG2, gets promoted to SG1 and FIFA
Stroud - demoted after 2 years in SG1 - now at 51 being offered a chance to return (age alone makes this staggering)
Madley for the reasons well documented is sacked - returns and looks likely he is now the prodigal son
Drysdale suspended earlier in season - now being interviewed for promotion (at 50 too!)

Maybe a hint to all aspiring for promotion but not getting noticed - donít just be an ordinary, genuine nice guy towing the line, step out of line a bit, be a rebel and see where that gets you!

Incidentally do we know how many in each category will be promoted? I assume being invited for interview does not necessarily mean promotion is a certain.


A most interesting observation. My take on it is that if someone is "anointed" and adopted by powerful and influential people then they are fireproof. A small slap on the wrist and then full restitution. I suppose naked criminality could not be so easily overlooked ( and in the past there have been senior referees whose criminal records have cast them into the refereeing outer darkness ) but these days, honestly I am not so certain. I suspect only such things as overt racism or sexism would render  someone unfit for office and permanently dismissed. Mind you, Bobby Madley's disgusting behaviour in regard to disabled people appears not to carry the ultimate sanction. I cannot help but wonder if such restitution would have been offered to a humble FL toiler had he made a similar egregious comment. I have my doubts.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: T on Sun 06 Jun 2021 11:29
The referees being interviewed for promotion are the following:

Select Group 2 → Select Group 1
- John Brooks
- Jarred Gillett
- Tony Harrington
- Keith Stroud
- Michael Salisbury

National List → Select Group 2
- Thomas Bramall
- John Busby
- Martin Coy
- Darren Drysdale
- Craig Hicks
- Bobby Madley

My predictions are:
ē Jarred Gillett
ē Tony Harrington
ē John Brooks


ē Bobby Madley
ē Thomas Bramall
ē Martin Coy


What does everyone else think?
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Mikael W on Sun 06 Jun 2021 12:16
Well if the clear penalty missed in the last minute(s) to Newport in the L2 playoff final cost Ross Joyce SG2 in 2019, then Bobby Madley will surely miss out this time too.

Without offering thoughts on others, I'd be really chuffed to see Brooks and Salisbury promoted to SG1 personally.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: RCG on Sun 06 Jun 2021 13:07
T - certainly agree with your SG2 to SG1 - Gillet, Brooks and Harrington all performed well. Salisbury I think is a season too early, yet to be tested fully in Championship. Stroud, as commented elsewhere, great to see him up there but purely from a succession perspective I cannot see what SG1 or he gain from promotion. He will go from 25/30 games a season to 6, get very used to waving a board around, which I think is a waste of his experience.

I also agree that if (big if) the penalty decision in L2 play off was deemed to be wrong then Madley should not be promoted. Likewise, Busby. Hicks looks fairly nailed on.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: highfieldlatic on Sun 06 Jun 2021 14:15
It has been said numerous times on these boards that one game does not define/decide a season, so why should 1 decision (in 1 game) define/decide a season or promotion???
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Charlieboy on Sun 06 Jun 2021 15:14
It has been said numerous times on these boards that one game does not define/decide a season, so why should 1 decision (in 1 game) define/decide a season or promotion???
It sort of did define morecombe and Newportís season/promotion.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Ashington46 on Sun 06 Jun 2021 15:32
It has been said numerous times on these boards that one game does not define/decide a season, so why should 1 decision (in 1 game) define/decide a season or promotion???
It sort of did define morecombe and Newportís season/promotion.

Possibly could be said that Joss Labadie blazing over the bar from a couple of yards out in extra time also was the defining moment, however, this was just one match and Cheltenham, Cambridge and Bolton had their defining moments during 46 matches when Newport were not good enough.
Had they been good enough they would not have had to rely on three extra matches and a referee's decision and we would not be discussing whether or not that one decision should affect the promotion of an official.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: RCG on Sun 06 Jun 2021 15:55
My only issue with that, is had it been a regular season game and deemed to be a KM error the mark would have reflected that and possibly reduced that referees average sufficiently that they were no longer in the top 3 or so. Previously as mentioned Ross Joyce's season finished on one wrong decision and there have been examples elsewhere too.
It will come down to interpretation - correct or supportable, wont affect him, wrong match defining incident should. Love to know if asked at interview did he believe (in hindsight) he was correct, what would he say?
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: ECity77 on Sun 06 Jun 2021 18:34
I thought Charles Breakspear would of been on the interview list.
Having refereed the Pizza Cup final and having had play off games for the last couple of seasons.


Surprised not to see Tim Robinson too as he gets a lot of the bigger and TV games.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: TVOS on Sun 06 Jun 2021 20:24
It has been said numerous times on these boards that one game does not define/decide a season, so why should 1 decision (in 1 game) define/decide a season or promotion???
It sort of did define morecombe and Newportís season/promotion.

Possibly could be said that Joss Labadie blazing over the bar from a couple of yards out in extra time also was the defining moment, however, this was just one match and Cheltenham, Cambridge and Bolton had their defining moments during 46 matches when Newport were not good enough.
Had they been good enough they would not have had to rely on three extra matches and a referee's decision and we would not be discussing whether or not that one decision should affect the promotion of an official.

Although, having said all that, a defining error by a referee in the forthcoming Euros could end his tournament.

Different competition, I know, but the same principle.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: DER on Sun 06 Jun 2021 20:49
I thought Charles Breakspear would of been on the interview list.
Having refereed the Pizza Cup final and having had play off games for the last couple of seasons.


Surprised not to see Tim Robinson too as he gets a lot of the bigger and TV games.

Charles Breakspear was among the three referees out of six last year who were interviewed for SG2 but did not make the cut. The others were Darren Handley and Marc Edwards.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: TVOS on Mon 07 Jun 2021 10:27
I thought Charles Breakspear would of been on the interview list.
Having refereed the Pizza Cup final and having had play off games for the last couple of seasons.


Surprised not to see Tim Robinson too as he gets a lot of the bigger and TV games.

Charles Breakspear was among the three referees out of six last year who were interviewed for SG2 but did not make the cut. The others were Darren Handley and Marc Edwards.

Darren Handley? Are you sure? He had fitness issues and was never really appointed to any games of relative importance.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: DER on Mon 07 Jun 2021 10:52
I thought Charles Breakspear would of been on the interview list.
Having refereed the Pizza Cup final and having had play off games for the last couple of seasons.


Surprised not to see Tim Robinson too as he gets a lot of the bigger and TV games.

Charles Breakspear was among the three referees out of six last year who were interviewed for SG2 but did not make the cut. The others were Darren Handley and Marc Edwards.

Darren Handley? Are you sure? He had fitness issues and was never really appointed to any games of relative importance.

I am sure.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: TVOS on Mon 07 Jun 2021 12:42
I thought Charles Breakspear would of been on the interview list.
Having refereed the Pizza Cup final and having had play off games for the last couple of seasons.


Surprised not to see Tim Robinson too as he gets a lot of the bigger and TV games.

Charles Breakspear was among the three referees out of six last year who were interviewed for SG2 but did not make the cut. The others were Darren Handley and Marc Edwards.

Darren Handley? Are you sure? He had fitness issues and was never really appointed to any games of relative importance.

I am sure.

Bizarre!
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: ajb95 on Mon 07 Jun 2021 14:00
I thought Charles Breakspear would of been on the interview list.
Having refereed the Pizza Cup final and having had play off games for the last couple of seasons.


Surprised not to see Tim Robinson too as he gets a lot of the bigger and TV games.

Charles Breakspear was among the three referees out of six last year who were interviewed for SG2 but did not make the cut. The others were Darren Handley and Marc Edwards.

Darren Handley? Are you sure? He had fitness issues and was never really appointed to any games of relative importance.

I am sure.

Bizarre!

Darren handley had a few injury issues last year so left to become an observer at level 2B and 3
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: JohnCoyle on Mon 07 Jun 2021 14:14
Any word on promotions from the National League (2A) to the National Group (1)? I dare say the referees and assistants chosen for the NL play-offs are among the front runners. Simon Mather and Rebecca Welch will also be under consideration having had trial matches and I would think it likely that one of those two will do the NL Promotion Final.

PS. Is the David Richardson who will referee the Stockport vs Hartlepool PO semi the same one that was a FIFA Assistant some time ago?
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: RCG on Mon 07 Jun 2021 14:36
P.S yes
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: WaitAndSee on Mon 07 Jun 2021 18:22
Any word on promotions from the National League (2A) to the National Group (1)? I dare say the referees and assistants chosen for the NL play-offs are among the front runners. Simon Mather and Rebecca Welch will also be under consideration having had trial matches and I would think it likely that one of those two will do the NL Promotion Final.

PS. Is the David Richardson who will referee the Stockport vs Hartlepool PO semi the same one that was a FIFA Assistant some time ago?

I believe Simon finished top of the merit list, so will highly likely referee the final at Ashton Gate👍🏼
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Boris10 on Mon 07 Jun 2021 18:57
I did refer to D.Richardson a few weeks ago.On a different tack,I accidently caught 5 minutes of a WHU-Villa game of many years ago.The referee was David Richardson.In only 5 minutes watching ,both linesmen seemed flag happy and the kits of the officials had amazingly short shorts.......................
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Mikael W on Mon 07 Jun 2021 22:11
Any word on promotions from the National League (2A) to the National Group (1)?

Officials promoted have been already been notified by PGMOL.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Mackem ref on Mon 07 Jun 2021 22:34
Indeed, I assume news will filter through over the coming days.

First cab off the rank is Cpl Dec OíShea promoted to EFL line for next season as confirmed by Army FA on Twitter!
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: WaitAndSee on Mon 07 Jun 2021 23:32
Also Nick Dunn and Darren Williams
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: DER on Tue 08 Jun 2021 12:42
According to Twitter, seven assistant referees have been promoted to the National Group.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: RCG on Tue 08 Jun 2021 13:27
Seven? That seems very small in comparison to years gone by
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: LateTackle on Tue 08 Jun 2021 14:57
I find it strange that people are saying that the likes of Stroud and Drysdale shouldn't be considered for promotion due to their age or a minor disciplinary issue - if they have been two of the best performing referees this season then they deserve to be considered. I'm sure some would be quick to point the finger at the PGMOL if there were considering 'lesser' performing referees instead.

I think the point is it doesn't really help the succession planning.
I find it quite incredible that Stroud is being considered for a return to SG1.  I never liked his style of refereeing, but that is not really the point.  The fact that someone the wrong side of 50 is in contention shows the desperate lack of quality coming through from SG2.  I feel that some SG1 are getting rather long in the tooth but it seems there is nobody waiting in the wings to take over.  Clearly PGMOL's development programmes are failing to produce top talent. Who will be the first 60-y-o to take a Premier game, I wonder.

Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: bmb on Tue 08 Jun 2021 15:24
Who will be the first 60-y-o to take a Premier game, I wonder.

Mike Dean!
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Ashington46 on Tue 08 Jun 2021 15:36
Who will be the first 60-y-o to take a Premier game, I wonder.

Mike Dean!

I predict that Mike will retire before then because he will be hacked off with the technology having taken over from the human element. Time will tell!
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: DER on Tue 08 Jun 2021 17:53
I would bet money that this will be Mikeís final season - especially with fans returning to games.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: TheThingFromLewes on Tue 08 Jun 2021 20:40
Who will be the first 60-y-o to take a Premier game, I wonder.

Mike Dean!

Grandad is the oldest so far isnít he?
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Mackem ref on Tue 08 Jun 2021 21:31
Does anybody know if those promoted to EFL middle have been informed or is it just the assistants so far?
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: WaitAndSee on Tue 08 Jun 2021 22:25
Does anybody know if those promoted to EFL middle have been informed or is it just the assistants so far?

I have heard (unofficially) that the top 5 National League Referees on the merit list (all those appointed as referee to play off matches) plus Rebecca Welch have been invited for an interview. Potentially looking at 4 referees to progress into the FL next season.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: RCG on Tue 08 Jun 2021 23:14
Interesting how you phrased that W&S, implication being Ms Welch is not number 6?
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Hughesy66 on Tue 08 Jun 2021 23:24
I also heard that although 6 are being interviewed, the referee who finished 6th is not one of them.

If this is the case then I am absolutely for equality but this cannot be right and would be purely positive discrimination. It would be very interesting to hear how this would be justified to the referee who finished in 6th position as to how or why somebody below them was interviewed rather than them. That could make for a very uncomfortable explanation.
It would seem that given the press coverage much earlier in the season that colours were pinned to a certain mast. I for one sincerely hope this is not the case as that would do more damage to the question of equality than anything else.

Out of interest at this level is it the FA who would nominate for interview or PGMOL? Iím not sure how far down the influence of PGMOL goes
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: RCG on Wed 09 Jun 2021 07:28
PGMO is very much involved with 2 to 1, although the FA make the day to day appointments (I believe)
In years past referees lower down merit lists have been interviewed/promoted as some above them may not have been eligible through age. But as we have seen with other lists (Stroud and Drysdale) this is no longer a factor.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: WaitAndSee on Wed 09 Jun 2021 07:37
I also heard that although 6 are being interviewed, the referee who finished 6th is not one of them.

If this is the case then I am absolutely for equality but this cannot be right and would be purely positive discrimination. It would be very interesting to hear how this would be justified to the referee who finished in 6th position as to how or why somebody below them was interviewed rather than them. That could make for a very uncomfortable explanation.
It would seem that given the press coverage much earlier in the season that colours were pinned to a certain mast. I for one sincerely hope this is not the case as that would do more damage to the question of equality than anything else.

Out of interest at this level is it the FA who would nominate for interview or PGMOL? Iím not sure how far down the influence of PGMOL goes

Yes I totally agree, it is my understanding that Rebecca finished around the halfway point on the merit list, but is still being considered on the basis that she had a development game.

I would certainly be very disappointed if I was one of the referees who finished above her and didn't receive the same opportunity and I imagine it will cause a lot of resentment amongst refereeing colleagues should she be successful.

It would be fantastic to see a female referee on the Football League, but it absolutely must be on the basis of merit, otherwise what is the point in having a merit list.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: ajb95 on Wed 09 Jun 2021 08:10
I also heard that although 6 are being interviewed, the referee who finished 6th is not one of them.

If this is the case then I am absolutely for equality but this cannot be right and would be purely positive discrimination. It would be very interesting to hear how this would be justified to the referee who finished in 6th position as to how or why somebody below them was interviewed rather than them. That could make for a very uncomfortable explanation.
It would seem that given the press coverage much earlier in the season that colours were pinned to a certain mast. I for one sincerely hope this is not the case as that would do more damage to the question of equality than anything else.

Out of interest at this level is it the FA who would nominate for interview or PGMOL? Iím not sure how far down the influence of PGMOL goes

Yes I totally agree, it is my understanding that Rebecca finished around the halfway point on the merit list, but is still being considered on the basis that she had a development game.

I would certainly be very disappointed if I was one of the referees who finished above her and didn't receive the same opportunity and I imagine it will cause a lot of resentment amongst refereeing colleagues should she be successful.

It would be fantastic to see a female referee on the Football League, but it absolutely must be on the basis of merit, otherwise what is the point in having a merit list.

In my brief experience of refereeing promotion this is unfortunately quite common at a lot of levels. If your face fits youíre in, if not youíll never get anywhere on merit!
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: justalino on Wed 09 Jun 2021 09:30
I also heard that although 6 are being interviewed, the referee who finished 6th is not one of them.

If this is the case then I am absolutely for equality but this cannot be right and would be purely positive discrimination. It would be very interesting to hear how this would be justified to the referee who finished in 6th position as to how or why somebody below them was interviewed rather than them. That could make for a very uncomfortable explanation.
It would seem that given the press coverage much earlier in the season that colours were pinned to a certain mast. I for one sincerely hope this is not the case as that would do more damage to the question of equality than anything else.

Out of interest at this level is it the FA who would nominate for interview or PGMOL? Iím not sure how far down the influence of PGMOL goes

Yes I totally agree, it is my understanding that Rebecca finished around the halfway point on the merit list, but is still being considered on the basis that she had a development game.

I would certainly be very disappointed if I was one of the referees who finished above her and didn't receive the same opportunity and I imagine it will cause a lot of resentment amongst refereeing colleagues should she be successful.

It would be fantastic to see a female referee on the Football League, but it absolutely must be on the basis of merit, otherwise what is the point in having a merit list.

I always take these rumours with a little bit of a pinch of salt, bearing in mind the only person who can see your merit table position is you and the powers that be and you are unable to see anyone else's.  If I had a pound for everytime an official has told me they finished one place outside the promotion places last season.....

Every year there are rumours that female/gay/BAME referees have been promoted on their belonging to a particular demographic rather than merit table position.  None of us will ever know if that's true of course, and if it is then that is totally counter productive to the equal society we all want.  Tokenism is equally damaging in my opinion.

The moral of the story for me is to not concern oneself with the politics.  Control the controllables.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Ref Watcher on Wed 09 Jun 2021 09:46
I also heard that although 6 are being interviewed, the referee who finished 6th is not one of them.

If this is the case then I am absolutely for equality but this cannot be right and would be purely positive discrimination.
This is exactly what the Rooney Rule proposes in order to give opportunities to ethnic minority candidates - an guarantee that at least one such person will be interviewed to offset any (perceived or real) prejudices faced along the way.  It doesn't guarantee a job; just the chance to be considered.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: bmb on Wed 09 Jun 2021 13:02
I'm going to take this opportunity to point out to some of you newbies - we are not a gossip column. We are not interested in rumours, what you've heard or speculation - never have been. Most of it is way off base anyway! Opinion is fine, facts are even better, rumour, gossip and speculation is just something to be ignored, the whole reason it is rumour, gossip and speculation is because it has little to no bearing on fact...  As justalino says "the only person who can see your merit table position is you and the powers that be and you are unable to see anyone else's". Anyone outside of the powers that be or the referee themselves who is genuinely in the know doesn't spout off on a forum saying "I've heard..."  which is partly why they are genuinely in the know - they can be trusted with matters of 'in confidence'.

Add in that the position on the merit table is not the only factor that will be considered, although it will be one of the most important factors, developmental progress will be considered, the referee as a whole in terms of can they handle the next step up will be considered, their attitude, their desire and willingness to work hard, keep learning, keep progressing will be considered, someone might be excellent at x level but would not handle the next step up or have the ability at the next level, the level they are at might be the peak of their ability so they may well finish top of the merit table year in year out and never get called for interview to the next level.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: T on Wed 09 Jun 2021 14:39
The referees being interviewed for promotion are the following:

Select Group 2 → Select Group 1
- John Brooks
- Jarred Gillett
- Tony Harrington
- Keith Stroud
- Michael Salisbury

National List → Select Group 2
- Thomas Bramall
- John Busby
- Martin Coy
- Darren Drysdale
- Craig Hicks
- Bobby Madley


Darren Drysdale has withdrawn from the interview process for promotion to Select Group 2 - according to Ref Support UK, citing his commitment to family and his role in the armed forces.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Carter on Wed 09 Jun 2021 16:22
Speaking as someone who appoints officials and collates merit tables, it has always been based on merit.

I cant and wont begin to comment on something I dont know in regards the national league promotions.

What I will say is refs are now given their position rather than bandings, so for example a ref is 6 of 60.
However they have their own whats app groups or some other medium where they discuss each others position so it wouldnt be difficult to figure out if most posted on the group.
This would be more likely to be the case I would suggest  in geographical areas where they all know each other.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Nowayreferee on Wed 09 Jun 2021 16:42
Now letís be real.  Of course they can pick or choose who they want.
They will invite everyone up to a certain position to the interview / selection.  And then they can select and reject from there.
Last season for instance both referees and assistant promotions.  Please donít tell me there was no positive discrimination in that process.  I wonít name names but you can work them out.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: justalino on Wed 09 Jun 2021 16:50
Speaking as someone who appoints officials and collates merit tables, it has always been based on merit.

I cant and wont begin to comment on something I dont know in regards the national league promotions.

What I will say is refs are now given their position rather than bandings, so for example a ref is 6 of 60.
However they have their own whats app groups or some other medium where they discuss each others position so it wouldnt be difficult to figure out if most posted on the group.
This would be more likely to be the case I would suggest  in geographical areas where they all know each other.

Assuming everyone tells the truth ;)
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: rustyref on Wed 09 Jun 2021 18:12
There are always likely to be variations from the merit table to who gets promoted.  For example, a level 5 might finish top of observation marks, but if his leagues tell the CFA that his admin is rubbish and he has turned down loads of games on open dates the CFA are extremely unlikely to put him at the top of their priority list as their reputation will be on the line.  The same applies at supply league with 4 to 3 promotions, there the RefsSec will know how reliable his referees are and that will be reflected in his comments to the FA.

At higher levels it won't, or at least shouldn't be, down to administration but could be other things.  Is their timekeeping questionable and they have repeatedly been late for games, have they missed group training sessions or meetings with no valid reason, etc.
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: nemesis on Fri 11 Jun 2021 15:01
I also heard that although 6 are being interviewed, the referee who finished 6th is not one of them.

If this is the case then I am absolutely for equality but this cannot be right and would be purely positive discrimination. It would be very interesting to hear how this would be justified to the referee who finished in 6th position as to how or why somebody below them was interviewed rather than them. That could make for a very uncomfortable explanation.
It would seem that given the press coverage much earlier in the season that colours were pinned to a certain mast. I for one sincerely hope this is not the case as that would do more damage to the question of equality than anything else.

Out of interest at this level is it the FA who would nominate for interview or PGMOL? Iím not sure how far down the influence of PGMOL goes

Yes I totally agree, it is my understanding that Rebecca finished around the halfway point on the merit list, but is still being considered on the basis that she had a development game.

I would certainly be very disappointed if I was one of the referees who finished above her and didn't receive the same opportunity and I imagine it will cause a lot of resentment amongst refereeing colleagues should she be successful.

It would be fantastic to see a female referee on the Football League, but it absolutely must be on the basis of merit, otherwise what is the point in having a merit list.

I always take these rumours with a little bit of a pinch of salt, bearing in mind the only person who can see your merit table position is you and the powers that be and you are unable to see anyone else's.  If I had a pound for everytime an official has told me they finished one place outside the promotion places last season.....

Every year there are rumours that female/gay/BAME referees have been promoted on their belonging to a particular demographic rather than merit table position.  None of us will ever know if that's true of course, and if it is then that is totally counter productive to the equal society we all want.  Tokenism is equally damaging in my opinion.

The moral of the story for me is to not concern oneself with the politics.  Control the controllables.

People not concerning themselves with politics enables politicians to get away with murder. (You may decide for yourself whether I'm using that phrase figuratively or not.)
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: highfieldlatic on Fri 11 Jun 2021 18:58
Nemesis - you overlooked the definite article
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Mackem ref on Fri 18 Jun 2021 10:41
Itís all gone quiet in this front recently - any ideas when we can expect an announcement?
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Vissla7 on Fri 18 Jun 2021 14:15
Itís all gone quiet in this front recently - any ideas when we can expect an announcement?

With the National League Play-off final being held on Sunday, I'd imagine that announcements will follow in the weeks shortly after.

The last "normal" season saw the National League Play-off final taking place on 11th May 2019 and the announcements followed around w/c 20th May
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: ajb95 on Fri 18 Jun 2021 14:16
Some time in the future..
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: Hughesy66 on Fri 18 Jun 2021 16:39
I believe that Madley got injured in the fitness test and therefore as the fitness test wasnít passed he is no longer eligible for promotion.

I have to say that sounds extremely harsh that a referee can perform well for a whole season and then an injury or medical incident would stop them from being promoted. Surely if itís an injury a referee should be given another opportunity to pass that? Is that the normal procedure? I thought officials had a number of opportunities to pass a test especially if injury was the reason for not passing first time?
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: WaitAndSee on Fri 18 Jun 2021 19:46
The final National League to Football League Referee interview took place today, so I would expect that we should hear something next week 👍🏼
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: BabyRef on Mon 28 Jun 2021 13:45
Tony Harrington promoted to the PL according to the Hartlepool Mail

https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/sport/football/hartlepool-referee-tony-harrington-promoted-to-the-premier-league-for-2021-22-campaign-after-starring-in-efl-3281302
Title: Re: Promotion Interviews 2021
Post by: TVOS on Mon 28 Jun 2021 14:16
Tony Harrington promoted to the PL according to the Hartlepool Mail

https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/sport/football/hartlepool-referee-tony-harrington-promoted-to-the-premier-league-for-2021-22-campaign-after-starring-in-efl-3281302

https://ratetheref.createaforum.com/general-discussion-5/promotions-2596/