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General Refereeing => General Discussion => Topic started by: GameDay2021 on Fri 07 May 2021 18:30

Title: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: GameDay2021 on Fri 07 May 2021 18:30
Now that Turkey is on the red list for the UK, we have a dilemma over where the final will now be held

Will we be in the UK for the final. However, there is a small matter of a Championship Play Off Final at the main contender for a stadium on the same day

Will we be in Lisbon. A safe country that hosted last years final and an easy commute for the favourite referee for the game

Or will we be surprised

Leave your opinions here!
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: GameDay2021 on Fri 07 May 2021 18:36
UEFA announce they will need 'a little bit of time' to come up with a solution for the UCL final
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: bmb on Fri 07 May 2021 20:15
Puskás Aréna - Budapest




I have a press pass for the game & it would be an extra trip home!
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: GameDay2021 on Fri 07 May 2021 20:17
Puskás Aréna - Budapest




I have a press pass for the game & it would be an extra trip home!


It doesn't look like it but its a great stadium. Hope for your sake its there!



Edited to fix quote thingamajigga
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Whistleblower on Fri 07 May 2021 20:20
Hampden Park or the Principality Stadium if they have any sense.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: bmb on Fri 07 May 2021 20:24
Hampden Park or the Principality Stadium if they have any sense.

Agree but "if they have any sense" probably rules them out!
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: bmb on Fri 07 May 2021 20:28
Puskás Aréna - Budapest




I have a press pass for the game & it would be an extra trip home!


It doesn't look like it but its a great stadium. Hope for your sake its there!



Edited to fix quote thingamajigga

I get 3 weeks there next month for the Euro's. Sadly we didn't get any of the reallocated games But I do have permission to stay for the whole 3 weeks with quite strict restrictions outside of attending games! I'm not complaining I get to annoy Mr bmb for 3 weeks straight!
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Whistleblower on Fri 07 May 2021 21:36
Hampden Park or the Principality Stadium if they have any sense.

Agree but "if they have any sense" probably rules them out!

Never was a truer word spoken.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: GameDay2021 on Fri 07 May 2021 21:59
Hampden Park or the Principality Stadium if they have any sense.

Agree but "if they have any sense" probably rules them out!

Never was a truer word spoken.

Have to agree
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Claretman on Fri 07 May 2021 22:15
I suppose Villa Park is the ground about Half Way between the two sides competing for the trophy.
Quite an upgrade needed for the media though.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Ben on Fri 07 May 2021 22:22
Surely it has to be moved.

UK Gov have said they’re happy to host it, I’m sure it’ll be arranged somehow.

Villa Park, Spurs Ground, Old Trafford...

There’s plenty of options.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Ashington46 on Sat 08 May 2021 08:48
Playing Devil's Advocate my question is "Why should UEFA move the final?"

These two teams have recently been part of a breakaway movement that wanted to play most of their matches in Europe with no thought whatsoever for their fans so why shouldn't UEFA give them the opportunity.

If they do move it, will they allow fans to attend and, if they do, how can anyone reconcile that with the fact that, although they allowed a limited number of fans for a cup semi-final featuring two PL sides, they would not allow fans for the Vase and Trophy finals which took place two weeks later, ostensibly in a much healthier country.

Will it be a case of 'money talks'? Watch  this space with interest.




Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: rustyref on Sat 08 May 2021 09:27
Playing Devil's Advocate my question is "Why should UEFA move the final?"

These two teams have recently been part of a breakaway movement that wanted to play most of their matches in Europe with no thought whatsoever for their fans so why shouldn't UEFA give them the opportunity.

If they do move it, will they allow fans to attend and, if they do, how can anyone reconcile that with the fact that, although they allowed a limited number of fans for a cup semi-final featuring two PL sides, they would not allow fans for the Vase and Trophy finals which took place two weeks later, ostensibly in a much healthier country.

Will it be a case of 'money talks'? Watch  this space with interest.

Because it is due to be played in a country with one of the highest Covid infection rates in the World.  That alone is a valid enough reason, it doesn't need to move to England and could be anywhere with a low infection rate.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: edy on Sat 08 May 2021 10:39
I am certain that Erdoğan won't be happy if they take the final from Turkey second year in a row....
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Claretman on Sat 08 May 2021 11:18
Playing Devil's Advocate my question is "Why should UEFA move the final?"

These two teams have recently been part of a breakaway movement that wanted to play most of their matches in Europe with no thought whatsoever for their fans so why shouldn't UEFA give them the opportunity.

If they do move it, will they allow fans to attend and, if they do, how can anyone reconcile that with the fact that, although they allowed a limited number of fans for a cup semi-final featuring two PL sides, they would not allow fans for the Vase and Trophy finals which took place two weeks later, ostensibly in a much healthier country.

Will it be a case of 'money talks'? Watch  this space with interest.

Because it is due to be played in a country with one of the highest Covid infection rates in the World.  That alone is a valid enough reason, it doesn't need to move to England and could be anywhere with a low infection rate.

Time for the players and clubs to stand up, if eufa wont move the final, they should refuse to travel to a country
With a very high infection rate on health and safety grounds.

Agree rustyref the game could be played in any european country with low infection rates.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Ashington46 on Sat 08 May 2021 11:59
Should be played in a country that is on the 'Green' list with no need to quarantine --- Portugal. Gibraltar, Israel, Iceland and Faroe Islands are all within reach.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: bmb on Sat 08 May 2021 13:25
Windsor Park Belfast
Lansdowne Road Dublin (well Aviva Stadium I think it's called now)

Both in the CTA anyway so no quarantine etc
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Irrelohe on Sat 08 May 2021 13:27
Again playing devil's advocate,  I think most of the responses on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically, for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned.. The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I await the brickbats.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: greeny on Sat 08 May 2021 13:31
It's not just fans - it affects both teams as well.  Everyone on both sides would have to self isolate for 10 days on their return if it stays in Istanbul.  I just don't understand why they would play it in a country with huge numbers of Covid cases when there are numerous countries around Europe which would be much safer.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: TVOS on Sat 08 May 2021 13:46
Again playing devil's advocate,  I think most of the responses on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically, for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned.. The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I await the brickbats.

When Turkey was awarded the final, there wasn't a global pandemic. Moving it away from there - and letting them host it another time - is the most sensible decision in what are very unprecedented times, rather like letting Taylor and Oliver referee their second FA Cup Finals.

Also saying "UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final" is extremely insensitive and immoral.

Sounds to me like you're "Anti-Britocentric"!
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Whistleblower on Sat 08 May 2021 13:48
Again playing devil's advocate,  I think most of the responses on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically, for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned.. The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I await the brickbats.


This is a perfectly well thought out position but I don't agree with it so no brickbats from me but a counter argument. I think if the match went ahead in Turkey, with no fans present, it would be another step along the road of seeing major football competitions as primarily for a (paying) TV audience and further removed from the fan base. Slight shades of the Super League controversy. It's certainly one way to go but I think there would have to be an end to the mantra of "without fans nothing". I hold very little brief for the present UK Government but its primary responsibility is to keep its citizens safe and if that entails Lists of countries deemed safe or unsafe to visit then so be it. If one wants to elevate the autonomy of UEFA above other considerations then go ahead in Turkey; I think it would be to the overall detriment of the game as I have sought to outline.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: GameDay2021 on Sat 08 May 2021 13:53
Windsor Park Belfast
Lansdowne Road Dublin (well Aviva Stadium I think it's called now)


Both in the CTA anyway so no quarantine etc

Ireland aren't able to have fans. Windsor Park could be an option tho as rules are different in NI and ROI

Edited to fix quote thingamajigga
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Whistleblower on Sat 08 May 2021 13:57
There is a pub in Ipswich called The Case Is Altered. As TVOS points out that is precisely what the pandemic has done to the honour of Turkey being awarded the honour of staging the Champions League Final. Due consideration of the case being altered should be made with subsequent decisions flowing from that.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Hendo on Sat 08 May 2021 14:07
Again playing devil's advocate,  I think most of the responses on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically, for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned.. The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I await the brickbats.


This is a perfectly well thought out position but I don't agree with it so no brickbats from me but a counter argument. I think if the match went ahead in Turkey, with no fans present, it would be another step along the road of seeing major football competitions as primarily for a (paying) TV audience and further removed from the fan base. Slight shades of the Super League controversy. It's certainly one way to go but I think there would have to be an end to the mantra of "without fans nothing". I hold very little brief for the present UK Government but its primary responsibility is to keep its citizens safe and if that entails Lists of countries deemed safe or unsafe to visit then so be it. If one wants to elevate the autonomy of UEFA above other considerations then go ahead in Turkey; I think it would be to the overall detriment of the game as I have sought to outline.

As ever, and as we have come to expect, Whistleblower the voice of reason! 👍🏻
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: bmb on Sat 08 May 2021 14:45
Windsor Park Belfast
Lansdowne Road Dublin (well Aviva Stadium I think it's called now)


Both in the CTA anyway so no quarantine etc

Ireland aren't able to have fans. Windsor Park could be an option tho as rules are different in NI and ROI

Edited to fix quote thingamajigga

Of course they aren't hence why they lost the Euros games - completely forgot that! Was just thinking for somewhere not in England that would be easier in terms of travel restrictions!
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: rustyref on Sat 08 May 2021 14:47
Again playing devil's advocate,  I think most of the responses on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically, for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned.. The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I await the brickbats.

It isn't Britocentric as most people are just saying don't hold it in Turkey.  Not because it is two English teams, but because Turkey is currently one of the worst affected countries for Covid.  If for some bizarre reason they'd decided to hold the final in India would you still be taking the same stance?
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: bmb on Sat 08 May 2021 15:11
Again playing devil's advocate,  I think most of the responses on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically, for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned.. The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I await the brickbats.

I don't believe that the final should be moved because of who is playing in it but I do believe it should be moved if there is a risk to the health and well being of the players, club staff and match officials involved. I believe that risk exists due to the pandemic and the current situation in Turkey. I personally do not believe that if the hosting nation is moved due to the pandemic that it should be moved to England just because the teams are from there - anywhere but imo. It should then be awarded to Turkey automatically next year when hopefully they can host it in its full glory.

UEFA have an obligation to protect the health and well being of the players, club staff, match officials and supporters. That should be above anything else. If they feel that there is no risk to the players, club staff and the match officials then they have the option to have the game go ahead with no supporters.  I think however that would be in a direct conflict on their stance on the Euro 2020(1) matches where host nations that could not comply with a minimum % of fans being allowed to attend had their games taken away from them.  Either the fans matter or they don't - their stance on the Euros is that they do matter and stadiums that can't have them have therefore lost out. I believe they should apply the same principle to this match.

It is simply not true however, that "The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government".  Every country within Europe (probably the world right now actually) have their own list of red, amber and green countries - it is not unique to the UK, nor were the UK the first to implement such lists.  Hungary has been implementing them since March 2020 right at the start of the pandemic, well before the UK government ever considered having them. Quite frankly the UK have been well behind everyone else in terms of their response to a global pandemic with the exception of the vaccine roll out & that is down to the NHS more than the government, imo.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: LateTackle on Sat 08 May 2021 15:24
It isn't Britocentric as most people are just saying don't hold it in Turkey.  Not because it is two English teams, but because Turkey is currently one of the worst affected countries for Covid.  If for some bizarre reason they'd decided to hold the final in India would you still be taking the same stance?
I would agree with that.  Turkey would seem to be no longer a reasonable option but that doesn't mean it has to come to England.  I believe Estadio da Luz in Lisbon would be an ideal venue, great stadium and a fantastic city.  Otherwise, looking at the so-called green list, how about Gibraltar?  Or the Falklands??
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: RCG on Sat 08 May 2021 15:35
Didnt Lisbon have it last year during first lockdown?
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: GameDay2021 on Sat 08 May 2021 15:36
Didnt Lisbon have it last year during first lockdown?


Yep
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: ajb95 on Sat 08 May 2021 16:58
Playing Devil's Advocate my question is "Why should UEFA move the final?"

These two teams have recently been part of a breakaway movement that wanted to play most of their matches in Europe with no thought whatsoever for their fans so why shouldn't UEFA give them the opportunity.

If they do move it, will they allow fans to attend and, if they do, how can anyone reconcile that with the fact that, although they allowed a limited number of fans for a cup semi-final featuring two PL sides, they would not allow fans for the Vase and Trophy finals which took place two weeks later, ostensibly in a much healthier country.

Will it be a case of 'money talks'? Watch  this space with interest.

Because it is due to be played in a country with one of the highest Covid infection rates in the World.  That alone is a valid enough reason, it doesn't need to move to England and could be anywhere with a low infection rate.

Time for the players and clubs to stand up, if eufa wont move the final, they should refuse to travel to a country
With a very high infection rate on health and safety grounds.

Agree rustyref the game could be played in any european country with low infection rates.

Not UK then
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: ajb95 on Sat 08 May 2021 17:03
Again playing devil's advocate,  I think most of the responses on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically, for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned.. The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I await the brickbats.

When Turkey was awarded the final, there wasn't a global pandemic. Moving it away from there - and letting them host it another time - is the most sensible decision in what are very unprecedented times, rather like letting Taylor and Oliver referee their second FA Cup Finals.

Also saying "UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final" is extremely insensitive and immoral.

Sounds to me like you're "Anti-Britocentric"!

There was a global pandemic last year which Is why it was moved to Lisbon. Turkey survived last year with very few cases and deaths but has been hit badly by variants.

I don’t know why players coaches etc are worries about self isolating considering it is the last match of the season and the euros doesn’t start for another 3 weeks after so plenty of time to rest and isolate 👍
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Irrelohe on Sat 08 May 2021 19:02
Some very sensible comments since my original contribution to this thread. I certainly wasn't trying to be (or suggesting that UEFA were) "sensitive and immoral". I entirely agree that if UEFA consider that it is not safe for players, staff, officials, fans (if relevant) etc to attend then they should seek to move the venue - subject of course to the precise terms of the contract which awarded the final to Istanbul. However, as far as I am aware, UEFA have not - to date - concluded that it would be unsafe to go ahead with the final in Turkey. As long as that remains the case, it seems appropriate for the final to go ahead as scheduled, and in particular I don't think UEFA should allow themselves to be swayed by the fact that the final is being contested by two English teams and that the UK government's position is that (if indeed this is the case) those involved would have to self-isolate etc on returning to the UK. The latter point arises entirely from the actions of the UK government and is surely no concern of UEFA. (That last point explains my reference to Britocentricity). I doubt the same furore would have arisen had only one English team made it to the final; and if no English team had made it, this thread would not even have been started. (And no, I do not regard myself as Britocentric - I have no shame in saying I am a fervent remainer, and as someone with Continental European heritage I like to think that I can see both sides of these issues).

With reference to Whistleblower's comments re fans, my apologies but I've not kept up with the issue as to whether fans are to be allowed in Istanbul. If not, you could perhaps argue that there is an inconsistency with UEFA's stance on the Euros, but of course one difference is that the CL final was awarded to a specific stadium whereas these Euros were always intended to be spread around, and one could perhaps understand UEFA taking the view that in the current situation only countries which allowed fans in should have Euros hosting rights. I don't really think a precedent would be set.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: rustyref on Sat 08 May 2021 19:47
Again playing devil's advocate,  I think most of the responses on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically, for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned.. The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I await the brickbats.



When Turkey was awarded the final, there wasn't a global pandemic. Moving it away from there - and letting them host it another time - is the most sensible decision in what are very unprecedented times, rather like letting Taylor and Oliver referee their second FA Cup Finals.

Also saying "UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final" is extremely insensitive and immoral.

Sounds to me like you're "Anti-Britocentric"!

There was a global pandemic last year which Is why it was moved to Lisbon. Turkey survived last year with very few cases and deaths but has been hit badly by variants.

I don’t know why players coaches etc are worries about self isolating considering it is the last match of the season and the euros doesn’t start for another 3 weeks after so plenty of time to rest and isolate 👍

Apart from lots of them are due to join their international squads a few days after.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: GameDay2021 on Sat 08 May 2021 19:53
Again playing devil's advocate,  I think most of the responses on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically, for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned.. The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I await the brickbats.



When Turkey was awarded the final, there wasn't a global pandemic. Moving it away from there - and letting them host it another time - is the most sensible decision in what are very unprecedented times, rather like letting Taylor and Oliver referee their second FA Cup Finals.

Also saying "UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final" is extremely insensitive and immoral.

Sounds to me like you're "Anti-Britocentric"!

There was a global pandemic last year which Is why it was moved to Lisbon. Turkey survived last year with very few cases and deaths but has been hit badly by variants.

I don’t know why players coaches etc are worries about self isolating considering it is the last match of the season and the euros doesn’t start for another 3 weeks after so plenty of time to rest and isolate 👍

Apart from lots of them are due to join their international squads a few days after.

There is such thing as the general public who they may contact with
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: rustyref on Sat 08 May 2021 20:08
Again playing devil's advocate,  I think most of the responses on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically, for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned.. The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I await the brickbats.



When Turkey was awarded the final, there wasn't a global pandemic. Moving it away from there - and letting them host it another time - is the most sensible decision in what are very unprecedented times, rather like letting Taylor and Oliver referee their second FA Cup Finals.

Also saying "UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final" is extremely insensitive and immoral.

Sounds to me like you're "Anti-Britocentric"!

There was a global pandemic last year which Is why it was moved to Lisbon. Turkey survived last year with very few cases and deaths but has been hit badly by variants.

I don’t know why players coaches etc are worries about self isolating considering it is the last match of the season and the euros doesn’t start for another 3 weeks after so plenty of time to rest and isolate 👍

Apart from lots of them are due to join their international squads a few days after.

There is such thing as the general public who they may contact with

My point was that there isn't a lot of time for them to rest and isolate as was suggested.

Also, it isn't just down to isolation.  It is illegal to travel to Turkey from the UK, all direct flights are banned (including chartered flights), and unless the government change their stance from what they have done previously there will be no exception for elite sports.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: rustyref on Sat 08 May 2021 20:12
Playing Devil's Advocate my question is "Why should UEFA move the final?"

These two teams have recently been part of a breakaway movement that wanted to play most of their matches in Europe with no thought whatsoever for their fans so why shouldn't UEFA give them the opportunity.

If they do move it, will they allow fans to attend and, if they do, how can anyone reconcile that with the fact that, although they allowed a limited number of fans for a cup semi-final featuring two PL sides, they would not allow fans for the Vase and Trophy finals which took place two weeks later, ostensibly in a much healthier country.

Will it be a case of 'money talks'? Watch  this space with interest.

Because it is due to be played in a country with one of the highest Covid infection rates in the World.  That alone is a valid enough reason, it doesn't need to move to England and could be anywhere with a low infection rate.

Time for the players and clubs to stand up, if eufa wont move the final, they should refuse to travel to a country
With a very high infection rate on health and safety grounds.

Agree rustyref the game could be played in any european country with low infection rates.

Not UK then

That comment makes no sense at all, as the UK now have one of the lowest case rates in Europe, despite carrying out more tests than most.  On Friday the UK had 2,613 positive tests.  France had almost 22000, Italy nearly 12000, Germany 17000, and Turkey over 22,000.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: bruntyboy on Sun 09 May 2021 00:20
Again playing devil's advocate,  I think most of the responses on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically, for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned.. The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I await the brickbats.

It isn't Britocentric as most people are just saying don't hold it in Turkey.  Not because it is two English teams, but because Turkey is currently one of the worst affected countries for Covid. If for some bizarre reason they'd decided to hold the final in India would you still be taking the same stance?

It won't be a long time coming.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Ted on Sun 09 May 2021 07:18
Coventry become European City of Culture in the next few weeks so play it there. Its halfway between London and Manchester and just off the motorway.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Whistleblower on Mon 10 May 2021 09:33
The Times today reporting that most likely the Champions League Final will be at Wembley with the EFL prepared to move Play Off matches to different venues or different dates. Have to wait and see whether this is just paper talk but the Times usually gets these things right in the event that they publish a story. I imagine the Clubs who got to  aPlay Off final would be consulted about whether change of date or venue. At least I would hope so.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: ajb95 on Mon 10 May 2021 12:11
The Times today reporting that most likely the Champions League Final will be at Wembley with the EFL prepared to move Play Off matches to different venues or different dates. Have to wait and see whether this is just paper talk but the Times usually gets these things right in the event that they publish a story. I imagine the Clubs who got to  aPlay Off final would be consulted about whether change of date or venue. At least I would hope so.

As much as that makes sense why should the EFL be forced to change or move its finals when they’ve been agreed years in advance in order to cater for a final between 2 clubs who disowned the competition just over a fortnight ago?
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Ashington46 on Mon 10 May 2021 12:53
The Times today reporting that most likely the Champions League Final will be at Wembley with the EFL prepared to move Play Off matches to different venues or different dates. Have to wait and see whether this is just paper talk but the Times usually gets these things right in the event that they publish a story. I imagine the Clubs who got to  aPlay Off final would be consulted about whether change of date or venue. At least I would hope so.

As much as that makes sense why should the EFL be forced to change or move its finals when they’ve been agreed years in advance in order to cater for a final between 2 clubs who disowned the competition just over a fortnight ago?

As I said previously, 'money' talks ---it will be interesting to see how much is involved, however, I don't think that we will ever know.
I am in total agreement that, should they wish to use Wembley, it is the Champions League Final which should change date and not the EFL play-off finals.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: bmb on Mon 10 May 2021 16:30
Bang out of order if that happens
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: rustyref on Mon 10 May 2021 19:14
Seems to be looking like Portugal as the UK government won't back down on allowing sponsors and general UEFA bigwigs to enter without quarantine measures.

To me that would be the best outcome.  I never thought it should be in England, but it was very clear it couldn't be in Turkey, so it is looking like a sensible compromise might be reached.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57051804
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: LateTackle on Thu 13 May 2021 14:19
Coventry become European City of Culture in the next few weeks so play it there. Its halfway between London and Manchester and just off the motorway.
While I would love to see such a high profile game in my home city, I dread to think what the state of the pitch would be like after a season of egg-chasing all over it.  I am just hoping there will be a playable pitch for our return next season.

It seems that the final is to be played in Porto at the splendid Estadio do Dragao.  Porto is a wonderful city that I've had the pleasure of visiting several times.  Not much can beat Frango Peri Peri washed down with Super Bock.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: nemesis on Thu 13 May 2021 15:29
Seems to be looking like Portugal as the UK government won't back down on allowing sponsors and general UEFA bigwigs to enter without quarantine measures.

To me that would be the best outcome.  I never thought it should be in England, but it was very clear it couldn't be in Turkey, so it is looking like a sensible compromise might be reached.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57051804

Sensible if the supporters are viewed as the least important aspect.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Whistleblower on Thu 13 May 2021 16:43
Seems to be looking like Portugal as the UK government won't back down on allowing sponsors and general UEFA bigwigs to enter without quarantine measures.

To me that would be the best outcome.  I never thought it should be in England, but it was very clear it couldn't be in Turkey, so it is looking like a sensible compromise might be reached.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57051804

Sensible if the supporters are viewed as the least important aspect.


Oh, I think it's very nice of UEFA to help the ailing airline industry to get back on its feet.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: rustyref on Thu 13 May 2021 17:23
Seems to be looking like Portugal as the UK government won't back down on allowing sponsors and general UEFA bigwigs to enter without quarantine measures.

To me that would be the best outcome.  I never thought it should be in England, but it was very clear it couldn't be in Turkey, so it is looking like a sensible compromise might be reached.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57051804

Sensible if the supporters are viewed as the least important aspect.

Was never going to be in the UK as UEFA were insistent that their bigwigs and sponsors were allowed in without quarantine.  Portugal must have agreed to that, but it would have been political suicide for the UK government to agree.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: ajb95 on Thu 13 May 2021 17:45
Seems to be looking like Portugal as the UK government won't back down on allowing sponsors and general UEFA bigwigs to enter without quarantine measures.

To me that would be the best outcome.  I never thought it should be in England, but it was very clear it couldn't be in Turkey, so it is looking like a sensible compromise might be reached.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57051804

Sensible if the supporters are viewed as the least important aspect.

Was never going to be in the UK as UEFA were insistent that their bigwigs and sponsors were allowed in without quarantine.  Portugal must have agreed to that, but it would have been political suicide for the UK government to agree.

Hardly political suicide going off what has been going on for the last 12+ months - sorry. Our government agreeing to this would havent even been in the top 10 misgivings they have done in this horrible period
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: nemesis on Thu 13 May 2021 18:44
Seems to be looking like Portugal as the UK government won't back down on allowing sponsors and general UEFA bigwigs to enter without quarantine measures.

To me that would be the best outcome.  I never thought it should be in England, but it was very clear it couldn't be in Turkey, so it is looking like a sensible compromise might be reached.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57051804

Sensible if the supporters are viewed as the least important aspect.

Was never going to be in the UK as UEFA were insistent that their bigwigs and sponsors were allowed in without quarantine.  Portugal must have agreed to that, but it would have been political suicide for the UK government to agree.

Hardly political suicide going off what has been going on for the last 12+ months - sorry. Our government agreeing to this would havent even been in the top 10 misgivings they have done in this horrible period

I don't think you've spelled corruptions quite right.

Strangely it all seems to have gone down well with the voters.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: bmb on Fri 14 May 2021 00:59
Seems to be looking like Portugal as the UK government won't back down on allowing sponsors and general UEFA bigwigs to enter without quarantine measures.

To me that would be the best outcome.  I never thought it should be in England, but it was very clear it couldn't be in Turkey, so it is looking like a sensible compromise might be reached.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57051804

Sensible if the supporters are viewed as the least important aspect.

Was never going to be in the UK as UEFA were insistent that their bigwigs and sponsors were allowed in without quarantine.  Portugal must have agreed to that, but it would have been political suicide for the UK government to agree.

Match officials, UEFA referee observer, UEFA match delegate, UEFA safety officer, so required and not corporates, were not allowed in without quarantine either. Personally I view them as more important to the match going ahead.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Ref Watcher on Fri 14 May 2021 10:02
Seems to be looking like Portugal as the UK government won't back down on allowing sponsors and general UEFA bigwigs to enter without quarantine measures.

To me that would be the best outcome.  I never thought it should be in England, but it was very clear it couldn't be in Turkey, so it is looking like a sensible compromise might be reached.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57051804

Sensible if the supporters are viewed as the least important aspect.

Was never going to be in the UK as UEFA were insistent that their bigwigs and sponsors were allowed in without quarantine.  Portugal must have agreed to that, but it would have been political suicide for the UK government to agree.

Match officials, UEFA referee observer, UEFA match delegate, UEFA safety officer, so required and not corporates, were not allowed in without quarantine either. Personally I view them as more important to the match going ahead.
UEFA gets all its money from corporates.  They view the presence of sponsors at its events to be as important as that of the players and other participants.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: bmb on Fri 14 May 2021 11:15
Seems to be looking like Portugal as the UK government won't back down on allowing sponsors and general UEFA bigwigs to enter without quarantine measures.

To me that would be the best outcome.  I never thought it should be in England, but it was very clear it couldn't be in Turkey, so it is looking like a sensible compromise might be reached.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57051804

Sensible if the supporters are viewed as the least important aspect.

Was never going to be in the UK as UEFA were insistent that their bigwigs and sponsors were allowed in without quarantine.  Portugal must have agreed to that, but it would have been political suicide for the UK government to agree.

Match officials, UEFA referee observer, UEFA match delegate, UEFA safety officer, so required and not corporates, were not allowed in without quarantine either. Personally I view them as more important to the match going ahead.
UEFA gets all its money from corporates.  They view the presence of sponsors at its events to be as important as that of the players and other participants.

More importantly probably, the football is just a sideshow for the corporate entity, and I get that but it's not just them that are affected by the UK government's refusal to allow exceptions. There are also those that are actually vital to the sideshow even going ahead affected by it.
Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: Toprefm on Fri 14 May 2021 11:17
So how will the fact that Portugal according to news this morning may not to be open to UK visitors as from Monday 17th but from potentially now the 30th May affect the final!!!


Title: Re: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021
Post by: rustyref on Fri 14 May 2021 17:21
Seems to be looking like Portugal as the UK government won't back down on allowing sponsors and general UEFA bigwigs to enter without quarantine measures.

To me that would be the best outcome.  I never thought it should be in England, but it was very clear it couldn't be in Turkey, so it is looking like a sensible compromise might be reached.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57051804



Sensible if the supporters are viewed as the least important aspect.

Was never going to be in the UK as UEFA were insistent that their bigwigs and sponsors were allowed in without quarantine.  Portugal must have agreed to that, but it would have been political suicide for the UK government to agree.

Match officials, UEFA referee observer, UEFA match delegate, UEFA safety officer, so required and not corporates, were not allowed in without quarantine either. Personally I view them as more important to the match going ahead.

Only from red zone countries.  Orsato refereed the semi-final at Stamford Bridge, along with a Belgian delegate, and they didn't have to quarantine as there is an exemption for professional sports, just not for the red zone.