RateTheRef
General Refereeing => Referee / Match Official Appointments => Select Group 2 => Topic started by: aaa on Thu 23 Jul 2020 12:10
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1st Leg
Sun 26th Jul 2020
Swansea City FC (First Team) v Brentford FC (First Team)
Football League Championship
Referee: Stroud, Keith
Assistant Referee: Fox, Andrew
Assistant Referee: Russell, Mark
Fourth Official: Webb, David
Reserve Assistant Referee: Meredith, Steven
Mon 27th Jul 2020
Cardiff City FC (First Team) v Fulham (First Team)
Football League Championship
Referee: Eltringham, Geoff
Assistant Referee: Dermott, Philip
Assistant Referee: Hunt, Jonathan
Fourth Official: Bond, Darren
Reserve Assistant Referee: Lugg, Nigel
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Well I wasn’t expecting SG2 refs to handle the play offs but congratulations to all! Especially Geoff Eltringham, who has had a very strong end to the season in terms of appointments!
A possible Stroud farewell?
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Hmm, not convinced by those appointments, especially Stroud's.
I wonder if this was the plan anyway because of the 10 Premier League games requiring referees and VARs, or if it's because no Premier League referees have been used since Project Restart.
It will be interesting to see who is used for the second legs and the final - I do think these games should go to SG1 officials who, theoretically, are meant to be the best in the country.
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SG1’s will be used on second leg and finals.
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SG1’s will be used on second leg and finals.
I think that was the arrangement up until 2008 - not sure exactly when it started though. I remember in 2003 when Reading were in the play-offs and non-Premier League referees were used for all four semi-final games (both legs), including Howard Webb and Makr Clattenburg who hadn't yet made it onto SG! Steve Bennett from the SG then did the final.
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I would also expect SG1 officials to be used in the 2nd legs. Just a note about Stroud at Swansea, it seems the madness of appointing officials to teams in quick succession isn't limted to just SG1. Stroud did Swansea V Leeds 14 days and 3 match days ago. Also would of thought messers Robinson,Brooks or Linington would of got one of the games if they were using SG2 officials.
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Shocked I must say. I think I would have preferred the likes of Jones and England to referee PL games and bring SG1 refs in, as they have done previously.
Interesting to know where in any list Stroud and Eltringham fall, given that SG2 officials did all the L1 play offs as well.
Hope the ball runs kindly for all involved
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2nd Leg
Wed 29th Jul 2020
Brentford FC (First Team) v Swansea City FC (First Team)
Football League Championship
Referee: Kavanagh, Chris
Assistant Referee: Cook, Dan
Assistant Referee: Massey-Ellis, Sian
Fourth Official: Coote, David
Reserve Assistant Referee: Davies, Neil
Thu 30th Jul 2020
Fulham (First Team) v Cardiff City FC (First Team)
Football League Championship
Referee: Tierney, Paul
Assistant Referee: Hussin, Ian
Assistant Referee: Cann, Darren
Fourth Official: Scott, Graham
Reserve Assistant Referee: Lennard, Harry
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No surprise the big hitters out for the second leg. I would expect Dean or Pawson for the final now.
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I would say Oliver or Moss
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I think it will be Oliver
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Hmm, not convinced by those appointments, especially Stroud's.
I wonder if this was the plan anyway because of the 10 Premier League games requiring referees and VARs, or if it's because no Premier League referees have been used since Project Restart.
It will be interesting to see who is used for the second legs and the final - I do think these games should go to SG1 officials who, theoretically, are meant to be the best in the country.
Even less convinced by Stroud's appointment now. I think he's way past his best and have never rated him that highly anyway really. You could see why these play-offs are normally given to SG1.
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Eltringham had a very good game last night.
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my predictions for 2nd leg appointments was way out!!!
dean or Pawson for showpiece final
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do we think then that jones and England will get promotion then?
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do we think then that jones and England will get promotion then?
We don't know.
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do we think then that jones and England will get promotion then?
I think, although I could be wrong, that promotions will be announced after the domestic season has concluded (in other words, after the Championship Play Off Final). If I was a betting man, I think Jones is a shoe-in (to replace Lee Probert). But if nobody else leaves the list, they might only promote one this season.
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Be interesting to see how the SG1 referee without VAR! Must be hard going back to normal referring where their decisions are final after having a computer all season to back them up or overrule then.
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Be interesting to see how the SG1 referee without VAR! Must be hard going back to normal referring where their decisions are final after having a computer all season to back them up or overrule then.
I have to say Massey-Ellis has been superb this season. I can’t recall any major errors from her even after VAR has checked.
Darren Cann has been one of the best assistants in the world for many a year now.
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Be interesting to see how the SG1 referee without VAR! Must be hard going back to normal referring where their decisions are final after having a computer all season to back them up or overrule then.
I have to say Massey-Ellis has been superb this season. I can’t recall any major errors from her even after VAR has checked.
Darren Cann has been one of the best assistants in the world for many a year now.
Very true, however, the campaign to undermine them will continue apace! They can't distinguish the length of a toe nail so they have no chance when judging offside ::)
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we could possibly have no ref promotion or a toss between jones and England?
might be a bit weird not having var in champ play-offs hope all games go well
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Darren England is not ready to be promoted sadly, the Oxford game v Portsmouth alone shows this.
Jones is probably the best bet.
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Darren England is not ready to be promoted sadly, the Oxford game v Portsmouth alone shows this.
Jones is probably the best bet.
If you made a judgement based on one game, most of SG1 wouldn't be there.
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Im using that as an example, he missed two blatant send off's in that match alone, he has done other matches were errors have been made.
I would think that Jones will be promoted to SG1 and Salisbury (Michael) to SG2, anybody else any thoughts ??
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Depends on if anyone is leaving the SG1 list. I would say Jones is a certainty, with England close behind purely based on the appointments he has had recently. They could promote someone without a trial game, like they did with Bankes, in which case, I would say Jarred Gillett would be up there, but probably only if there are a couple of departures from SG1.
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I would think that Hooper will be demoted without a doubt, and possible Mike Dean retiring ??
any other obvious ones ?
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Why do you think that hooper would be demoted, without a doubt?
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Im using that as an example, he missed two blatant send off's in that match alone, he has done other matches were errors have been made.
I would think that Jones will be promoted to SG1 and Salisbury (Michael) to SG2, anybody else any thoughts ??
Every official has done matches where errors have been made.
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Im using that as an example, he missed two blatant send off's in that match alone, he has done other matches were errors have been made.
I would think that Jones will be promoted to SG1 and Salisbury (Michael) to SG2, anybody else any thoughts ??
Every official has done matches where errors have been made.
Hackett never did (according to Hackett) 😜
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Why do you think that hooper would be demoted, without a doubt?
Cos he is overweight and not rated by Mike Riley, Id say that's 2 very good reasons.
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He's passed the fitness test and is a full time employee of PGMOL. That means is protected by UK employment law and he can't be demoted unless they can demonstrate that his performance has fallen well below the required standard, and that has to be a staged approach following performance improvement plans, written warnings, etc. It is extremely difficult to get rid of a full time employee in the UK without leaving yourself wide open at an employment tribunal.
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I think he will be demoted and be a full time SG2, problem solved.
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What problem are you actually solving though, he’s passed his fitness test as rustyref mentions above, and he’s not had any major controversies this season as far as i can remember (if he has someone correct me). Its extremely rare that a demotion of that kind happens, at this level. The last one i can remember happening was Attwell, which was done to take him out the limelight and help him regain his confidence.
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What problem are you actually solving though, he’s passed his fitness test as rustyref mentions above, and he’s not had any major controversies this season as far as i can remember (if he has someone correct me). Its extremely rare that a demotion of that kind happens, at this level. The last one i can remember happening was Attwell, which was done to take him out the limelight and help him regain his confidence.
Could anybody tell me how many premier league middles he has done this season ? I doubt it would need both my hands to count.
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What problem are you actually solving though, he’s passed his fitness test as rustyref mentions above, and he’s not had any major controversies this season as far as i can remember (if he has someone correct me). Its extremely rare that a demotion of that kind happens, at this level. The last one i can remember happening was Attwell, which was done to take him out the limelight and help him regain his confidence.
Could anybody tell me how many premier league middles he has done this season ? I doubt it would need both my hands to count.
11
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Im using that as an example, he missed two blatant send off's in that match alone, he has done other matches were errors have been made.
I would think that Jones will be promoted to SG1 and Salisbury (Michael) to SG2, anybody else any thoughts ??
Every official has done matches where errors have been made.
Hackett never did (according to Hackett) 😜
K S Hackett.... one of the best officials for strolling around the pitch with excessive bulk.
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What problem are you actually solving though, he’s passed his fitness test as rustyref mentions above, and he’s not had any major controversies this season as far as i can remember (if he has someone correct me). Its extremely rare that a demotion of that kind happens, at this level. The last one i can remember happening was Attwell, which was done to take him out the limelight and help him regain his confidence.
Could anybody tell me how many premier league middles he has done this season ? I doubt it would need both my hands to count.
11
The same number incidentally as Peter Bankes
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He's passed the fitness test and is a full time employee of PGMOL. That means is protected by UK employment law and he can't be demoted unless they can demonstrate that his performance has fallen well below the required standard, and that has to be a staged approach following performance improvement plans, written warnings, etc. It is extremely difficult to get rid of a full time employee in the UK without leaving yourself wide open at an employment tribunal.
I'm not disagreeing but it seemed many more were removed 10-20 years ago. I'd also suggest the PGMO should be structuring contracts in such a way that enables them to make demotions where relevant, just as football teams can let players go or ITV recently demoted Clive Tyldesley, etc. I'm not sure open-ended, full-time contracts are sensible.
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jones for promotion then?
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jones for promotion then?
Probably - we don't know!
Possibly for Robinson/England.
Maybe an outside chance for a few others.
Probably not for Ward, Woolmer, Martin, Duncan...
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I hate to frighten you but given his appointments Ward must be up there on the merit list. I agree he is not good enough for PL.
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I would love to see the merit list as I’m confused who is near the top and who isn’t!?!
* Rob Jones - PL trial, PL teams in the cups and L1 play off final - must be near the top
* Darren England - PL trial, PL teams in the cups, plenty of PL 4O appointments, L1 play off semi final - again, suggests near the top
* Tim Robinson - PL trial, decent cup matches but no play off game and some pretty non-entity appointments since lock down - star faded?
* Geoff Eltringham - some fantastic appointments since lockdown (e.g. West Brom v Fulham) and Championship play off semi final - perhaps a quiet outsider for promotion, but appointments show he must have had a good season
* Keith Stroud - championship play off semi final, but that seems outkeeping with other appointments
* Tony Harrington - decent appointments in the season (e.g. Cardiff v Swansea), decent FA Cup run and L1 play off semi - highly thought of?
* Gavin Ward- decent appointments and L1 play off semi - must’ve had decent season, but can’t imagine him being in the promotion frame
* John Brooks - Always seems to get canny appointments - one being pushed for the future?
* Jarred Gillet - vastly experienced in Aus, touted for a potential PL trial but none forthcoming. However, I can’t imagine it will be long before he makes his PL bow
As for the rest of SG 2, I think they are nowhere near the discussion!
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What problem are you actually solving though, he’s passed his fitness test as rustyref mentions above, and he’s not had any major controversies this season as far as i can remember (if he has someone correct me). Its extremely rare that a demotion of that kind happens, at this level. The last one i can remember happening was Attwell, which was done to take him out the limelight and help him regain his confidence.
Could anybody tell me how many premier league middles he has done this season ? I doubt it would need both my hands to count.
Why do you need your hands to count?
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Final
Tue 4th Aug 2020
Brentford FC (First Team) v Fulham (First Team)
Football League Championship
Referee: Atkinson, Martin
Assistant Referee: Betts, Lee
Assistant Referee: Hatzidakis, Constantine
Fourth Official: Bankes, Peter
Reserve Assistant Referee: Lennard, Harry
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Atkinson's second Championship play-off final I think?
Quite possibly Oliver/Pawson are tied up with European games and he's a better choice than Moss!
I don't think he's had his best season at all, although been better since the restart. Should be a steady pair of hands - and he might enjoy doing a game without VAR!
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Congrats To Martin And The Team.
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Unless this is an Atkinson farewell, to me this appointment stinks of the 'Gentlemans club' ( Mikes friends)There are so many others who are deserving before him. If however this is his last game then fair enough.
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Yes. He had Crystal Palace - Watford in 2013.
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Final
Tue 4th Aug 2020
Brentford FC (First Team) v Fulham (First Team)
Football League Championship
Referee: Atkinson, Martin
Assistant Referee: Betts, Lee
Assistant Referee: Hatzidakis, Constantine
Fourth Official: Bankes, Peter
Reserve Assistant Referee: Lennard, Harry
Atkinson has not been a good omen for us in the play offs after his appalling decision when we lost to Reading in 2016.
However at least it’s not Moss.
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Congratulations to Martin and his team. Excellent appointment for Bankes in his first year on too.
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Yes. He had Crystal Palace - Watford in 2013.
Yes, I was there, and he had a good game, with the match-winning penalty to the Palace in extra time spot on. Congrats to Martin and his team, I hope you have a good game at Wembley.
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Final
Tue 4th Aug 2020
Brentford FC (First Team) v Fulham (First Team)
Football League Championship
Referee: Atkinson, Martin
Assistant Referee: Betts, Lee
Assistant Referee: Hatzidakis, Constantine
Fourth Official: Bankes, Peter
Reserve Assistant Referee: Lennard, Harry
Atkinson has not been a good omen for us in the play offs after his appalling decision when we lost to Reading in 2016.
However at least it’s not Moss.
Glad to hear it. No referees have been a good omen for Brentford in the whole history of the play offs. Eight attempts, no promotions so far. :(
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jones for promotion then?
How many more times... ::)
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Final
Tue 4th Aug 2020
Brentford FC (First Team) v Fulham (First Team)
Football League Championship
Referee: Atkinson, Martin
Assistant Referee: Betts, Lee
Assistant Referee: Hatzidakis, Constantine
Fourth Official: Bankes, Peter
Reserve Assistant Referee: Lennard, Harry
Fantastic! Him and Marriner easily the two most reliable officials in the Select Group IMO.
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a toss between Atkinson and Marriner for showpiece play off final
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Well I'm surprised it's not Oliver as I thought this would offer a degree of parity with Taylor. Seems they aren't interested in that. I think Atkinson is the very safe choice and Marriner
and Dean would have been very worthy recipients also. Good it's not Moss who quite simply isn't in the same class as Atkinson, Marriner or Dean
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has Oliver done a play-off final?
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has Oliver done a play-off final?
League 1 play off final 08/09
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oh a long time ago
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has Oliver done a play-off final?
League 1 play off final 08/09
His dad did the League Two Final the day before --the streets of Ashington were very quiet ;D
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has Oliver done a play-off final?
League 1 play off final 08/09
His dad did the League Two Final the day before --the streets of Ashington were very quiet ;D
Are they a particularly rowdy pair?
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has Oliver done a play-off final?
League 1 play off final 08/09
His dad did the League Two Final the day before --the streets of Ashington were very quiet ;D
Are they a particularly rowdy pair?
Haha --not at all, in fact, they are both smashing people and have both done their bit for local football. This is reflected in their status in the local community and the fact that Ashington had two townsfolk appearing at Wembley meant that there was a lot of interest ---the streets were quite and the pubs were busy!
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2 of the nicest guys I ever met. Clive had a touch of the John Cleese about him when he was running, legs and brain not always in same page
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2 of the nicest guys I ever met. Clive had a touch of the John Cleese about him when he was running, legs and brain not always in same page
Could well have been the damage to his knees that he suffered when playing the game. He was a decent player and he turned out to be a decent referee and he now goes observing and maintains his interest.
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Olivers dad was good in his day then?
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2 of the nicest guys I ever met. Clive had a touch of the John Cleese about him when he was running, legs and brain not always in same page
Could well have been the damage to his knees that he suffered when playing the game. He was a decent player and he turned out to be a decent referee and he now goes observing and maintains his interest.
I remember Clive Oliver refereeing one of our earliest Conference matches, away at Barrow. He seemed of much superior quality to a lot of the referees we encountered at that level so I wasn't surprised that he reached the National List. In 2007 he did a game at the Keepmoat (against Northampton, I think) and Michael was on the line. I think it was Michael's last season (possibly last Football League game) as an assistant.