Author Topic: Who was the referee? Appeals for information  (Read 3331 times)

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Acme Thunderer

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My original post has been re-posted I notice under Name the referee thread.

Am I alone in finding it confusing have two threads running 'Who was the referee?' and 'Name the referee'.  I wonder if the threads could be merged?

You are not alone and I think I must have confused myself when posting about Dunbar and Clarke. The merging of the two threads would be v useful. I must also remember to put any responses under the (/quote) to save it all coming out as one quote in blue.

Left Field

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I started these two different (to my mind) threads back on the old board some time ago. "Who was the referee?" was intended to be where someone didn't know or wasn't sure who refereed a game and could ask for answers or suggestions. "Name the referee quiz" was, as the name suggests, where a member knew the identity of a pictured or profiled referee and was setting a poser. However maybe that distinction is not always obvious and I sometimes have to give some thought to which thread to use. I wouldn't have a problem with the threads being merged, perhaps with a title such as "Who was the referee?" and then they could either ask for information or set a quiz question as they wish.

This entry is of the asking for answers / suggestions although I have an idea (no stronger than that) who the pictured referee might be. The picture below is from before a West Brom game in 1987. I don't know the opposition and the lack of attendance suggests it might be a friendly. The referee seems to be the tall, partly obscured figure at the back right - he looks a little like Ron Bridges but there may be other possibilities.

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Whistleblower

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I started these two different (to my mind) threads back on the old board some time ago. "Who was the referee?" was intended to be where someone didn't know or wasn't sure who refereed a game and could ask for answers or suggestions. "Name the referee quiz" was, as the name suggests, where a member knew the identity of a pictured or profiled referee and was setting a poser. However maybe that distinction is not always obvious and I sometimes have to give some thought to which thread to use. I wouldn't have a problem with the threads being merged, perhaps with a title such as "Who was the referee?" and then they could either ask for information or set a quiz question as they wish.

This entry is of the asking for answers / suggestions although I have an idea (no stronger than that) who the pictured referee might be. The picture below is from before a West Brom game in 1987. I don't know the opposition and the lack of attendance suggests it might be a friendly. The referee seems to be the tall, partly obscured figure at the back right - he looks a little like Ron Bridges but there may be other possibilities.

(Attachment Link)

I think a merging of the two threads as you suggest is a very good idea Left Field. I can see the original distinction of the two but now I think they have become somewhat merged in  many posters' minds so perhaps best to merge them officially.

As to your latest photo. The empty seats may indeed betoken a friendly and so bearing in mind the location, perhaps a local referee Vic Callow

Acme Thunderer

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I started these two different (to my mind) threads back on the old board some time ago. "Who was the referee?" was intended to be where someone didn't know or wasn't sure who refereed a game and could ask for answers or suggestions. "Name the referee quiz" was, as the name suggests, where a member knew the identity of a pictured or profiled referee and was setting a poser. However maybe that distinction is not always obvious and I sometimes have to give some thought to which thread to use. I wouldn't have a problem with the threads being merged, perhaps with a title such as "Who was the referee?" and then they could either ask for information or set a quiz question as they wish.

This entry is of the asking for answers / suggestions although I have an idea (no stronger than that) who the pictured referee might be. The picture below is from before a West Brom game in 1987. I don't know the opposition and the lack of attendance suggests it might be a friendly. The referee seems to be the tall, partly obscured figure at the back right - he looks a little like Ron Bridges but there may be other possibilities.

(Attachment Link)

If this is a friendly and the ref is the tall guy, then Terry Holbrook might be a possibility rather than Vic Callow who was less vertically inclined. But I'm not convinced that the hair style is Terry's. I note however that WBA were in dire trouble in Div 2 in 1986/7, with attendances reflecting this, and WBA v Barnsley on 2nd May 1987 had an attendance of 6300, just 200 more than at the Alex on Saturday. Could it be a League match with a sparse crowd and Barnsley in red? No idea on the ref but it would rule out Terry from Walsall and rule in Ron Bridges as a possibility.

Edit - this programme was produced uniquely for the WBA v Sunderland League game on 4/4/87 and is therefore definitely not Barnsley in red which was played a month later. In consequence, I think this has to be a League match, played in front of a sparse crowd, rather than a friendly but I do not know who the opponents could be.
« Last Edit: Tue 25 Sep 2018 11:09 by Acme Thunderer »

Left Field

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I would previously have put this "challenge" in the "Name the referee quiz" thread but I think for now it's best to put all these refereeing conundrums - quizzes or otherwise - in the same thread. Maybe just a change to the title of this thread to "Who was the referee? Quizzes and queries" might be an option instead of a formal merge.

On to the profile for others to uncover. It's from exactly fifty years ago - September 1968 - and the referee in question had a rather curious career of which more I'll say when he is identified. As a clue his surname sounds and reads very similar (though not identical) to a recent referee from Yorkshire:

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« Last Edit: Tue 25 Sep 2018 23:41 by Left Field »

Acme Thunderer

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'A' B-ing the C-lue no D-oubt, not 'E'?  :D
« Last Edit: Tue 25 Sep 2018 20:44 by Acme Thunderer »

JCFC

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You get a decent Mark for that AT.

Acme Thunderer

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You get a decent Mark for that AT.

Yes, at least I wasn't Wayward as I so often am!  ;D

Whistleblower

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One of our 'One Season Wonders' ?

Left Field

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As has been worked out the latest mystery official is PW Hayward of Bournemouth who only served one season on the Referees List (1968-1969). However that only tells a small amount of the story. That match profile is the only evidence I've come across of him refereeing a match (Colchester v Stockport) and it's possible he didn't actually take charge of the game as Gordon Hill is also credited as the official. It's therefore possible that he either refereed no games or just a very small number.

Normally that would be the end of a referee's Football League career but Mr. Hayward then reappeared on the Football League linesmen's list in 1969, completing two seasons before finally stepping down in 1971. Until the early 1990s only three referees in the post-war era went back to the line. Quite what happened is a mystery - maybe he had an injury which prevented him refereeing, or he asked to go back on the line?

In the eighties and nineties a PW (Peter?) Hayward was a member of the AFC Bournemouth board - being vice-chairman at one stage. It's possibly a coincidence and they are two people with the same surname and initials from the same town but it may be the man on the Bournemouth board and the referee are the same person. Perhaps bmb with her Bournemouth connections might be able to find out the answer.
« Last Edit: Wed 26 Sep 2018 18:11 by Left Field »

Whistleblower

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Very interesting Left Field. Do I detect from your latest post that you have access to lists of Linesman for years past? Now that would be a most interesting document to put into the public domain or at least share with fellow aficionados.

As to the three referees going back to the Line. I know Paul Danson did so in the early 2000s. I wonder if others are known ?

Left Field

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In more recent times (since 1993) there have been quite a number of FL referees returning to the line and sometimes back again. However before that time it was exceptionally rare. Very occasionally linesmen went off the list and came back for a second spell (two of whom later became FL referees) but that was very uncommon as well. The policy seemed to be that if an official went off the list for whatever reason there was no return with just a tiny number of exceptions. I'm not sure if this were the rationale but I suppose it would then allow other officials who hadn't been on the FL before more chance of promotion.

Left Field

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Looking at the picture below you might be wondering if you're seeing Ajax in total football mode. It is in fact... Oldham Athletic from the mid-1960s, the jinking player being winger Tony Bartley. In the background is a referee unknown to me, sporting the very Sixties refereeing fashion of very long white turnovers. I'd be surprised if anyone recognises this referee but I think it's a striking picture nonetheless.

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olddeagle

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Looking at the picture below you might be wondering if you're seeing Ajax in total football mode. It is in fact... Oldham Athletic from the mid-1960s, the jinking player being winger Tony Bartley. In the background is a referee unknown to me, sporting the very Sixties refereeing fashion of very long white turnovers. I'd be surprised if anyone recognises this referee but I think it's a striking picture nonetheless.

(Attachment Link)

Maurice Fussey?

Whistleblower

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Could very well be