RateTheRef

I agree it is odd how certain place-names seem to be reflected in many surnames while other places - often much bigger - are rarely encountered. As you say there are many Blackburns, Boltons and Prestons but almost never "Mr. Manchester" or "Mr. Liverpool". We have an occasional "Bermingham" but rarely if ever a "Mr. Birmingham". Some surname etymologist can no doubt explain this apparent anomaly.

Going back almost 60 years one of our top referees had a surname suggesting he should have hailed from the Second City.

Linesmen / assistants are less well-known but Mr. Mansfield was based in a town beginning with the same letter and with the same ending. Breaking the rule about larger places and surnames there was a linesman called Mr. Nottingham who came from... Mansfield. Even further back in time there was a Mr. Brighton who was based in various North London locations.

As regards nations, "Holland" is a very common surname and "Ireland" pops-up not infrequently (though very rarely with people actually from Ireland). A rarer example was linesman Alan Poland who was based in... Worthing.

Quote from: Left Field on Sat 29 Jun 2019 19:18

Don Shaw did not reside near TVOS territory and the Salisburys do not hail from Wiltshire. The Oldhams are not found near Manchester either.

Can anyone work out which referee was once erroneously billed as "A. Glasgow" - he was certainly based a very long way from there! The initial and part of the surname are correct.

Has anyone come across a referee or other person whose surname was actually the same as the place where they lived?

Perhaps "A Glasgow" had a Dock near Lancaster. Alex Glasgow did write some amusing songs - notably "How different from the home life of our own dear Queen" and "As soon as this pub closes."

It is unusual to find a "home town" surname , as John Arlott used to point out concerning Ian Buxton (from Buxton) as the name was not really relevant within the local area - where it would apply to most people. Only when one moved outside the area might one become Bob from Paisley, for example.

What is curious (sorry to hijack your interesting thread, Left Field) is why some places feature very commonly, while others do not. Blackburn and Preston, for example, are widespread - Burnley much rarer. There was an entertainer of sorts by the name of Stanley Accrington, but this may well have been a stage name. Oldhams are ten a penny, Rochdale as a surname virtually unknown - and would probably be confused with Rotherham!

Yes, Tony Glasson from Salisbury rather than the lovely W Lancs town of Glasson Dock which I remember well from my Blackpool days. Glasson was (and may still be) the home of a famous dual sign - 'Community Playing Fields' at the top and 'Danger Quicksands' underneath. 

Gordon Hill -from Leicester rather than a stop on the TFL network.

2nd city mystery man - Ken Aston? 

Don Shaw did not reside near TVOS territory and the Salisburys do not hail from Wiltshire. The Oldhams are not found near Manchester either.

Can anyone work out which referee was once erroneously billed as "A. Glasgow" - he was certainly based a very long way from there! The initial and part of the surname are correct.

Has anyone come across a referee or other person whose surname was actually the same as the place where they lived?

Does Keith Stroud now live anywhere near the town of the same name?

When appointed to umpire at Great Harwood, I used to find the best way of getting home was to walk over the Nab and down to catch the bus in Whalley. So, at a couple of miles, Jim Whalley would seem to be as close as anyone - until he moved to Southport, that is.

Not far from Whalley would be the village of Read which was certainly a very long way from the two locations of Eric. Speaking of distant locations Seville is a pretty long way and if he had actually been based there Alan would have had to plough his trade in La Liga rather than the Football League. This of course gives rise to the thought of how officials like our 1991-1992 cohort would have fared in other national leagues.

Just looking at the original list of Aldershot's referees, I realise that there is another person I do not remember ( though the surname itself is familiar but through someone else ) and that is Alan Bennett. Again Upton shows a very short tenure on the FL. Anyone remember him and what happened to him ?

It is quite surprising, looking through Upton, how many referees of yesteryear only served two seasons on the FL. Some on the Supplementary but many on the Full List. Were demotions much more common in those days or was there an arrangement by which some referees just served for a brief time ?

Alan Bennett always reminded me in physical appearance of David Elleray but he certainly didn't match him in length of career. I also remember him as referee of probably the most miserable and depressing match I've seen as Preston were easily beaten 2-0 at home by Cambridge United on a cold and wet New Year's Day - no blame attaches to Mr. Bennett I should stress. He was later featured in a brief magazine profile which revealed he was born in 1951, wished that something would be done about the offside trap spoiling games and said that his wife attended all his matches. He stood down not long after in 1992 so it was clearly not an age-related departure.

You're right that departures after just two years were very common up until the 1980s, then becoming more infrequent and now they are very rare. The League didn't appoint new referees with only two or three years to retirement age so these would not have been age-related departures. Although some left due to injury or personal circumstances I think it's very likely that many more referees in the past were removed on the grounds of performance but it's hard to be sure as understandably reasons for referees leaving are rarely given and very few officials would want to say they'd lost their place. Perhaps taking lots of referees off the list suggested a tough stance with high standards but it can also suggest prematurely removing referees who could have improved to a good standard over time with more support. It can also mean that those who replace them are often no better or even worse, they get removed and the process goes on. It's probably true that systems for supporting new referees are now much better while selection for promotion is also better organised and more informed so those who are promoted are more likely to make the grade.

It's also worth bearing in mind that until the 1990s any referee who was removed (or lost their place due to injury or resignation) had no real prospect of return. Therefore it wasn't "demotion" as might happen now to the National League but going right back to the bottom and refereeing on the parks or perhaps amateur football at best. I imagine some referees after losing their place simply gave up the game due to the disappointment. Even those who had performed poorly at League level would still have achieved levels far above 99% of active referees. Others would have been very unlucky to lose their place and potentially very good careers might have been ended. Some may even have wondered if it would have been better not to have been promoted and then had that status taken away but maybe for others even a couple of years refereeing at the top level would have still been very worthwhile and a great source of pride.

The only 'two season' referees who I can remember seeing live were Mike Bidmead and John Penrose. Neither gentleman covered themselves in glory when I saw them. However, I do not know the reason for their short tenure on the FL so cannot assume it was failing to maintain the required standard, though if what I saw was replicated on many other occasions, that would not surprise me.

One of the most memorable comments I've come across on RTR was you likening Mike Bidmead in appearance to Rene from "Allo Allo". Another favourite which I think was yours was about a referee whose name I don't recall - "(he) was a prison officer and refereed like one"! It might have been someone else who said it but a captivating image all the same. The best-known refereeing prison officer of yesteryear was Ron Crabb but I don't think it was him.

Maintaining the short-term theme two referees of 1991-1992 not on the Aldershot list had even shorter careers than Dave Shadwell. Paul Scoble of Portsmouth (unlikely to handle Aldershot for geographical reasons) last refereed in March 1993. Jeff Smith of Stafford was another newcomer in 1991 but never refereed a match, I think due to injury. He was appointed to a game at Rochdale, was unable to officiate and did not feature again. As far as I know he is the only referee to be appointed to the full list and never referee a game.

Returning for a moment to more famous referees at Aldershot, I recall seeing a TV programme which featured Jack Taylor and was (I believe) shown on ITV shortly after he refereed the 1974 World Cup Final. It showed Jack preparing for a midweek fixture at Aldershot in the (?) 4th Div and greeting his linesmen, one of whom was the genial Bill Cleare from High Wycombe. I recall bmb posted a pic of Bill at a 'do' in Darset with John Martin, which must have been on the 'old' RTR. 

My one visit to Aldershot was in 1975 when the Palace played there on Boxing Day in front of 14,000 spectators. Aldershot scored after 5 minutes and the rest of the game was spent camped in the Aldershot penalty area as the Palace did everything but score. And I couldn't find my car afterwards in the back streets of the town. Ref was Alex Lees who was good.

I've not got my Upton's with me so can't really comment on the 'two season' refs, but yes, my understanding was that refs were given two seasons to prove themselves after which they were dropped if they didn't reach the required standard. I recall John Homewood saying that he came within a mark or two of being dropped after two seasons which would have meant not seeing one of the best refs on the League list.