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Author Topic: Name the referee quiz  (Read 559 times)

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Whistleblower

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Re: Name the referee quiz
« Reply #15 on: Fri 21 Sep 2018 20:35 »
On doing my Upton research, I came across other ( to me ) unknown referees who enjoyed a short tenure on the National List at that time  Mr Bone of Sunderland, Mr Ellis of Goole, Mr Quinn of Middlesbrough, Mr Fieldsend of Sheffield to name but a few. Anyone remember any of them ?

Grahamexref

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Re: Name the referee quiz
« Reply #16 on: Fri 21 Sep 2018 21:40 »
Wow, Whistleblower, I bow to your superlative memory, and knowledge; what an excellent identification !. ;)

Whistleblower

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Re: Name the referee quiz
« Reply #17 on: Sat 22 Sep 2018 08:38 »
Thank you Grahamexref. I have to say memory has precious little to do with it. I have always enjoyed delving into texts and source material and so Gilbert Upton's magisterial tome Football League and Premiership Referees 1888 to 2005 is my source on this and Upton should have most of the credit.

I always thought it was the case ( though for how long I couldn't say ) that a referee could not be demoted after just one season. They had to have a minimum of two seasons in order for a judgement to be made that they couldn't properly officiate at that level. What then is very interesting are those referees (post Second World War ) who Upton lists as only serving for one year. Quite a few on the Supplementary List, which perhaps only afforded the referee one season to make his mark, but some also on the Full List, being  Mr Bradbury of Burton-on-Trent (1958/59, Mr Brooks of Edmonton N18 (1959/60), Mr Hayward of Bournemouth (1968/69), Mr Reid of Letchworth (1960/61), Mr Stott of Boston (1958/59), plus a whole host of referees who were only on for two seasons.  Theer must be some stories there of why such short a tenure.

Acme Thunderer

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Re: Name the referee quiz
« Reply #18 on: Sun 23 Sep 2018 15:32 »
On doing my Upton research, I came across other ( to me ) unknown referees who enjoyed a short tenure on the National List at that time  Mr Bone of Sunderland, Mr Ellis of Goole, Mr Quinn of Middlesbrough, Mr Fieldsend of Sheffield to name but a few. Anyone remember any of them ?

Alan Bone featured fairly recently on the old ISOR site, including a clip of him refereeing a TV game. H W Ellis of Goole achieved some fame in March 1969 when he refereed a top of the table clash, Derby v Palace in Div 2. Palace won 1-0 but the game featured five disallowed goals, surely something of a record, even in those days when offside was much more strictly interpreted than now. Both teams were promoted at the end of the season. Doug Fieldsend abandoned the Blackburn v Palace game on 1st Feb 1969 after just 18 minutes due to 'rain and mud'. Amazingly the game was replayed on 28th April, nine days after the Palace had achieved promotion on the last Saturday of the season and two days after the Cup Final. The game was played in front of just 4777 spectators although I am not sure whether Doug was in charge again. I know nothing about Mr Quinn nor any of the other short-term'ers mentioned in your more recent post.   

Whistleblower

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Re: Name the referee quiz
« Reply #19 on: Sun 23 Sep 2018 17:39 »
This truly is a superlative memory AT. Thank you for this information.

Left Field

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Re: Name the referee quiz
« Reply #20 on: Sun 23 Sep 2018 18:07 »
On doing my Upton research, I came across other ( to me ) unknown referees who enjoyed a short tenure on the National List at that time  Mr Bone of Sunderland, Mr Ellis of Goole, Mr Quinn of Middlesbrough, Mr Fieldsend of Sheffield to name but a few. Anyone remember any of them ?

John (Jack) Quinn had one particularly notable appointment as a late replacement for Kevin Howley for a Newcastle-Leeds fixture on Boxing Day 1969. He cautioned five players - a remarkable figure for the time - and Newcastle manager Joe Harvey was notably unhappy with his performance while two Leeds players unsuccessfully challenged their cautions. Forty years later there was another refereeing Quinn from Middlesbrough (Peter) and I wonder if they were related although Quinn isn't an unusual surname so possibly a coincidence.

Acme Thunderer

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Re: Name the referee quiz
« Reply #21 on: Sun 23 Sep 2018 22:14 »
This truly is a superlative memory AT. Thank you for this information.

Not entirely, Mrs AT has said that she will publicly burn my copy of 'Crystal Palace, The Complete Record, 1905 -2011', along with 'Upton's'  if I don't stop reading them after lights out! However the information about Mr Ellis and Mr Fieldsend are from my memory. Thanks   ;D 

Acme Thunderer

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Re: Name the referee quiz
« Reply #22 on: Mon 24 Sep 2018 09:22 »
Thank you Grahamexref. I have to say memory has precious little to do with it. I have always enjoyed delving into texts and source material and so Gilbert Upton's magisterial tome Football League and Premiership Referees 1888 to 2005 is my source on this and Upton should have most of the credit.

I always thought it was the case ( though for how long I couldn't say ) that a referee could not be demoted after just one season. They had to have a minimum of two seasons in order for a judgement to be made that they couldn't properly officiate at that level. What then is very interesting are those referees (post Second World War ) who Upton lists as only serving for one year. Quite a few on the Supplementary List, which perhaps only afforded the referee one season to make his mark, but some also on the Full List, being  Mr Bradbury of Burton-on-Trent (1958/59, Mr Brooks of Edmonton N18 (1959/60), Mr Hayward of Bournemouth (1968/69), Mr Reid of Letchworth (1960/61), Mr Stott of Boston (1958/59), plus a whole host of referees who were only on for two seasons.  There must be some stories there of why such short a tenure.

Stott and Hayward in particular must have felt aggrieved since they came from areas which produced top FL refs (Tinkler and Nippard) at about the same time.

Not one on your list, but mutn3's very good book on Old Nottinghamshire FL Referees mentions J (Jimmy) R Dunbar from Stapleford, a supplementary ref for two seasons from 1951 to 1953:-

"Everything seemed to be going well. In his second season on the Supplementary List, he was appointed to referee Arsenal v Blackpool in the FA Cup Quarter Final at Highbury, with over 69,000 spectators. Jimmy believed an assistant wasn't having the best of games, and when that assistant beckoned him over Jimmy feared the worse. Joe Mercer, the former England wartime captain, and now coming to the end of his career, had sworn at the assistant.
Jimmy decided, wisely or otherwise, just to issue a booking and felt that he had managed a tricky situation well. The end of the season came and Jimmy was shocked to be removed from the list, the only game he could think of that had jeopardised his role was the altercation with Mercer!"

Another short term ref who dropped off the list after refereeing a top game (as happened in those days) was J W J Clarke from Studley in Warwickshire. He refereed Man Utd v Sunderland in May 1968 at the end of his 2nd season on the list when Man Utd could have won the League title if they had won and Man City had lost at Newcastle. United lost and City won and Mr Clarke came off the list immediately after the game. The suggestion (a while back on ISOR) was that the Man Utd Chairman influenced the decision to have Clarke removed from the list but I don't think this can be confirmed.


Acme Thunderer

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Re: Name the referee quiz
« Reply #23 on: Mon 24 Sep 2018 09:25 »
Thank you Grahamexref. I have to say memory has precious little to do with it. I have always enjoyed delving into texts and source material and so Gilbert Upton's magisterial tome Football League and Premiership Referees 1888 to 2005 is my source on this and Upton should have most of the credit.

I always thought it was the case ( though for how long I couldn't say ) that a referee could not be demoted after just one season. They had to have a minimum of two seasons in order for a judgement to be made that they couldn't properly officiate at that level. What then is very interesting are those referees (post Second World War ) who Upton lists as only serving for one year. Quite a few on the Supplementary List, which perhaps only afforded the referee one season to make his mark, but some also on the Full List, being  Mr Bradbury of Burton-on-Trent (1958/59, Mr Brooks of Edmonton N18 (1959/60), Mr Hayward of Bournemouth (1968/69), Mr Reid of Letchworth (1960/61), Mr Stott of Boston (1958/59), plus a whole host of referees who were only on for two seasons.  There must be some stories there of why such short a tenure.