Author Topic: I spy old refs  (Read 2490 times)

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Whistleblower

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Re: I spy old refs
« Reply #30 on: Thu 28 Nov 2019 16:05 »
Looks too long ago for John Deakin. Jim Bent was also RAF but this is not how I remember him. Will put my thinking cap on ( though it's a poor fit these days )

JCFC

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Re: I spy old refs
« Reply #31 on: Thu 28 Nov 2019 16:34 »
Given Microscopist's present residence, I had assumed that it must be a Scottish referee, as he had obtained the official's permission. It did not greatly suggest any of the few Ayrshire referees of that apparent vintage and Hong Kong was a problem - the nearest I came was Lanarkshire's Hugh Young, who moved to Singapore!

I suspect that oldeagle may well be on the right lines: The referee in the photo does look rather like John Martin and as Microscopist has already informed us that he used to live near Ash, it may be that he came across, and has remained in touch with, Mr Martin from nearby Alton. Perhaps on the platform at Effingham Junction?
« Last Edit: Thu 28 Nov 2019 17:02 by JCFC »

Whistleblower

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Re: I spy old refs
« Reply #32 on: Thu 28 Nov 2019 21:33 »
Smart thinking JCFC. It certainly does look like John Martin

Microscopist

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Re: I spy old refs
« Reply #33 on: Thu 28 Nov 2019 22:01 »
A bit more information to keep you off the wrong track.
He refereed two games at the inaugral AFC Asia Cup.
On return to the UK was posted to Norfolk and refereed in the Norfolk and Suffolk League and Eastern Counties league.  Possibly too early for even the veterans on here from that area to overlap.
A knee injury brought his career to an abrupt end and he didn't referee in the Football League but did referee an FA Cup game ay Edgelely Park.

olddeagle

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Re: I spy old refs
« Reply #34 on: Fri 29 Nov 2019 00:42 »
A bit more information to keep you off the wrong track.
He refereed two games at the inaugral AFC Asia Cup.
On return to the UK was posted to Norfolk and refereed in the Norfolk and Suffolk League and Eastern Counties league.  Possibly too early for even the veterans on here from that area to overlap.
A knee injury brought his career to an abrupt end and he didn't referee in the Football League but did referee an FA Cup game ay Edgelely Park.

I see from Wikipedia that the first Asia Cup was in 1956 so we really are in the realms of yesteryear here. If I'm right in thinking that the mention of a "posting" to Norfolk implies we are in military territory, there was a gent called W J Baxter in the RAF who was on the Southern League referees list for a long time but not the FL list. For some of that time he was at RAF Coltishall in Norfolk. He was tallish with dark hair but it's so long ago I can't really recall. Anyway that's the best I can do. Great question though.

Whistleblower

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Re: I spy old refs
« Reply #35 on: Fri 29 Nov 2019 08:54 »
A bit more information to keep you off the wrong track.
He refereed two games at the inaugral AFC Asia Cup.
On return to the UK was posted to Norfolk and refereed in the Norfolk and Suffolk League and Eastern Counties league.  Possibly too early for even the veterans on here from that area to overlap.
A knee injury brought his career to an abrupt end and he didn't referee in the Football League but did referee an FA Cup game ay Edgelely Park.

Too long even before my time in the East !   My knowledge of referees of yesteryear doesn't properly begin until the mid 1970s.

 If it is Mr Baxter and this referee is certainly still alive then he must be a very great age.

Boris10

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Re: I spy old refs
« Reply #36 on: Fri 29 Nov 2019 11:00 »
A WJ Baxter-actually,I think it was F/O WJ Baxter was a linesman at Bradford once.No idea what he looked like but I think he was by then based in the NE.Could explain FA Cup at Stockport-most ubusual for East Anglian based referees to officiate in the NW.I also have a vague recollection he has been mentioned on ISOR before.

Whistleblower

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Re: I spy old refs
« Reply #37 on: Fri 29 Nov 2019 11:46 »
Are we getting our RAF personnel and/or Baxters confused ( I probably am ) Upton tells of a WO J J Baxter who was on the Football League Referees' List from1956 to 1959. That fits in with the date of the Asia Cup but we know that this photographed Baxter did not serve on the Football League Referees' List and if J J Baxter retired in his late 40s in 1959 that would make him well over a hundred if alive now. Not impossible but unlikely. Perhaps it is W J Baxter, of whom olddeagle writes.  Strange that there were two Baxters in the RAF refereeing at quite senior level. Perhaps they were related.

I do enjoy these little puzzles about referees of yesteryear. It is so much better than working !   

olddeagle

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Re: I spy old refs
« Reply #38 on: Fri 29 Nov 2019 12:25 »
Are we getting our RAF personnel and/or Baxters confused ( I probably am ) Upton tells of a WO J J Baxter who was on the Football League Referees' List from1956 to 1959. That fits in with the date of the Asia Cup but we know that this photographed Baxter did not serve on the Football League Referees' List and if J J Baxter retired in his late 40s in 1959 that would make him well over a hundred if alive now. Not impossible but unlikely. Perhaps it is W J Baxter, of whom olddeagle writes.  Strange that there were two Baxters in the RAF refereeing at quite senior level. Perhaps they were related.

I do enjoy these little puzzles about referees of yesteryear. It is so much better than working !   
Both Baxters were on the Southern League refs and FL linesmen's lists,  but only JJ made it to the FL refs list, while stationed at Bassingbourn near Royston (Herts). They both turn up a lot in programmes of the 50s but also both moved around a lot while in the RAF and may well have been confused with each other. I don't know if they were related.  Whoever the ref in the HK photo might be, if he was in the Asia Cup in 1956 he will be pretty elderly now. 

Whistleblower

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Re: I spy old refs
« Reply #39 on: Fri 29 Nov 2019 12:42 »
Sounds to me as if olddeagle is right with his suggestion of W J Baxter for the photograph at the Asia Cup. Looking at the photograph again it could well be a man in his mid/late 20s thus making him now in his late 80s/early 90s

Microscopist

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Re: I spy old refs
« Reply #40 on: Fri 29 Nov 2019 13:43 »
You are getting close, the age is about right and the RAF connection is correct.  Perhaps if I tell you that in the Asian Nations Cup he refereed in the (then) newly built Taipei Stadium in 1956 as the stadium's opening game and the away team were South Korea.   I think that you will have to depart from Wikipedia to find him.

Acme Thunderer

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Re: I spy old refs
« Reply #41 on: Fri 29 Nov 2019 14:03 »
Probably a red herring, but I recall my father saying that he once played with or against Ron Challis soon after he was posted to RAF Changi in Singapore in mid to late 1957. I assume Ron was doing his national service although whether it was the RAF or the Army who were also based at Changi, I don't know. And although I arrived with my family at Changi in early 1958 and was always keen on the RAF and Army football played there, I was still too young to recall Ron who (I think) died a few years ago anyway. 
« Last Edit: Fri 29 Nov 2019 14:07 by Acme Thunderer »

Microscopist

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Re: I spy old refs
« Reply #42 on: Fri 29 Nov 2019 14:12 »
I'm guessing that this referee left Hong Kong 1957, he had stopped playing but did coach the RAF team out there.

Whistleblower

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Re: I spy old refs
« Reply #43 on: Fri 29 Nov 2019 15:55 »
Probably a red herring, but I recall my father saying that he once played with or against Ron Challis soon after he was posted to RAF Changi in Singapore in mid to late 1957. I assume Ron was doing his national service although whether it was the RAF or the Army who were also based at Changi, I don't know. And although I arrived with my family at Changi in early 1958 and was always keen on the RAF and Army football played there, I was still too young to recall Ron who (I think) died a few years ago anyway.

The late great Ron Challis, my refereeing mentor, did indeed serve in the Armed Forces ( I do not remember which branch ) in Singapore. I believe it was there that he took up refereeing seriously. Sadly,the Final Whistle sounded for him in the great Stadium in the sky some years ago and at not a terribly great age.

I lived in Singapore during the late 1970s and therefore I had the privilege of watching Ron refereeing the FA Cup Final in 1979 while lying on a couch having just enjoyed a very fine and bibulous dinner. It was the match with the extraordinary ending of three goals being scored in very swift time, Arsenal edging out Manchester Utd 3 : 2  The match finished well after midnight Singapore time.  How the circles of time and place are joined.

Whistleblower

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Re: I spy old refs
« Reply #44 on: Sun 01 Dec 2019 13:14 »
Wikipedia is a most unreliable source of information as they list all 6 matches in the 1956 Asisan Nations Cup as taking place in the same Stadium and the first match they record as Hong Kong v Israel refereed by H A Sheppard of England. The only other English referee Wikipedia mentions is a Tommy Tucker so I guess the photograph is of one of those two gentlemen, unless there was a third English referee present at the tournament. Some of the 6 matches do not specify a referee but as microscopist tells us this referee officiated at two matches my strong suspicion is that it is either Sheppard or Tucker.