Author Topic: Final Games  (Read 3461 times)

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Acme Thunderer

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Re: Final Games
« Reply #45 on: Tue 24 Sep 2019 09:02 »
Thinking back to the old RTR, I read somewhere that Iorwerth Jones (of MOTD fame) refereed his final game at Exeter. Records show that Exeter played Cambridge on 26th April 1975. Can anyone confirm that this was his final game. Exeter's previous home game was v Newport, but I very much doubt that Iorwerth would have refereed a game involving a S Wales team.

Exeter-Cambridge was Iory Jones's final game. Another final game a couple of years earlier was Tottenham v Wolves for John Thacker (30.4.1973).

Belated thanks LF, I was away in August and overlooked your post. Database amended.

New entry on the database - L Probert, Southampton v Huddersfield, May 2019.

olddeagle

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Re: Final Games
« Reply #46 on: Wed 13 Nov 2019 19:49 »
A Daily Mirror report mentioned crowd trouble at a Forest-Burnley game on 18 April 1964 (which Burnley won 3-1) culminating in some fans trying to attack referee Horner and his linesmen at the end. I'm not sure if that were his final match (the season ended the following weekend) but it wouldn't be surprising if he decided to call it a day after such an experience.

You can see Harold Horner having a few spots of bother in a Tranmere v Chelsea  FA Cup tie in the big 62/3 freeze up at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDEAOH6LzGk
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Acme Thunderer

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Re: Final Games
« Reply #47 on: Thu 14 Nov 2019 16:49 »
Thanks olddeagle for this piece of nostalgia from long ago (pre-MOTD?). Full marks to Mr Horner in my view for letting the game go ahead despite the snow. It seemed to have been an exciting game and playable although I couldn't see the game being played nowadays. I think Hinton / (?) Hinson of Chelsea would have received at least a yellow card now for his tackle on Ronnie Moore. Tranmere playing in all white must have given them an advantage although presumably that didn't include the fans and TV viewers trying to pick out the players in the ghostly white surroundings. All-in-all a good example of how playing conditions have changed over the years and what was thought acceptable in in the v snowy winter of 1962/3. 

Hendo

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Re: Final Games
« Reply #48 on: Fri 15 Nov 2019 18:07 »
Thanks olddeagle for this piece of nostalgia from long ago (pre-MOTD?). Full marks to Mr Horner in my view for letting the game go ahead despite the snow. It seemed to have been an exciting game and playable although I couldn't see the game being played nowadays. I think Hinton / (?) Hinson of Chelsea would have received at least a yellow card now for his tackle on Ronnie Moore. Tranmere playing in all white must have given them an advantage although presumably that didn't include the fans and TV viewers trying to pick out the players in the ghostly white surroundings. All-in-all a good example of how playing conditions have changed over the years and what was thought acceptable in in the v snowy winter of 1962/3.
[/quot

At just over 6 mins for those wanting to see the Hinson/Moore scrap. Moore’s tackle provoked it and I think he exaggerated the hit to the face too.
In the days when slightly overweight, slightly unfit and slightly elderly refs chugged about the pitch wagging fingers and generally giving the impression that they weren’t overly bothered in events on the field. Loved those days!

olddeagle

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Re: Final Games
« Reply #49 on: Sun 17 Nov 2019 10:46 »
The Tranmere v Chelsea clip comes from the predecessor of MOTD which was called "Saturday Sport". It wasn't restricted to football-Rugby international highlights used to be screened then too (you can see the schedules on https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/issues which has back numbers  of Radio Times).  That match was one of only 3 third round ties out of 32 that were played that day, and the replay wasn't until 30th January when Chelsea won 3-1. 
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Acme Thunderer

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Re: Final Games
« Reply #50 on: Thu 21 Nov 2019 09:06 »
E Ilderton - Forest Green v Tranmere, May 2019 - added to the Final Game database, see separate thread under General Discussion.
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Left Field

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Re: Final Games
« Reply #51 on: Wed 15 Jan 2020 16:40 »
As an update Dennis Turner's final match now seems to be Rochdale 4 Northampton 1 on 5th May 1979. As per AT's initial post I also had thought he hadn't refereed after an Ipswich-Arsenal game in March 1979 and had left the List a little early. However the referee profile for the Rochdale game makes clear that it was due to be his final match and that he had reached retirement age. This also surprised me as I was under the impression he was short of the retirement age in 1979 (profiles suggest he was 35 in 1969 so only 45 in 1979). It's possible the earlier profiles underestimated his age or the Rochdale programme heard he was retiring and assumed it was on age grounds. Whatever the case it seems we have a new final game for him.

Acme Thunderer

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Re: Final Games
« Reply #52 on: Thu 16 Jan 2020 16:01 »
As an update Dennis Turner's final match now seems to be Rochdale 4 Northampton 1 on 5th May 1979. As per AT's initial post I also had thought he hadn't refereed after an Ipswich-Arsenal game in March 1979 and had left the List a little early. However the referee profile for the Rochdale game makes clear that it was due to be his final match and that he had reached retirement age. This also surprised me as I was under the impression he was short of the retirement age in 1979 (profiles suggest he was 35 in 1969 so only 45 in 1979). It's possible the earlier profiles underestimated his age or the Rochdale programme heard he was retiring and assumed it was on age grounds. Whatever the case it seems we have a new final game for him.

Thank you LF for the update, I will amend the database. My information on why I thought Dennis retired after the game at Ipswich came from a RA colleague who was a linesman at the game and who suggested that Dennis was in bits when Bobby Robson (the Ipswich manager) came into the room because this was his last game due to work reasons. Perhaps his boss had a temporary change of heart but it wouldn't surprise me if Dennis did retire earlier than he needed to. 

Edit - wasn't Dennis another FL retiree who went off to the USA to seek his fortune? If so, perhaps that made a difference to the date of his retirement from the FL in 1979, but would have precluded him from carrying on to the normal retirement age.   
« Last Edit: Thu 16 Jan 2020 17:04 by Acme Thunderer »

Left Field

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Re: Final Games
« Reply #53 on: Fri 17 Jan 2020 00:25 »
As an update Dennis Turner's final match now seems to be Rochdale 4 Northampton 1 on 5th May 1979. As per AT's initial post I also had thought he hadn't refereed after an Ipswich-Arsenal game in March 1979 and had left the List a little early. However the referee profile for the Rochdale game makes clear that it was due to be his final match and that he had reached retirement age. This also surprised me as I was under the impression he was short of the retirement age in 1979 (profiles suggest he was 35 in 1969 so only 45 in 1979). It's possible the earlier profiles underestimated his age or the Rochdale programme heard he was retiring and assumed it was on age grounds. Whatever the case it seems we have a new final game for him.

Thank you LF for the update, I will amend the database. My information on why I thought Dennis retired after the game at Ipswich came from a RA colleague who was a linesman at the game and who suggested that Dennis was in bits when Bobby Robson (the Ipswich manager) came into the room because this was his last game due to work reasons. Perhaps his boss had a temporary change of heart but it wouldn't surprise me if Dennis did retire earlier than he needed to. 

Edit - wasn't Dennis another FL retiree who went off to the USA to seek his fortune? If so, perhaps that made a difference to the date of his retirement from the FL in 1979, but would have precluded him from carrying on to the normal retirement age.

It's possible the game at Rochdale was an unexpected swansong. It's also possible there was some misunderstanding about the Ipswich game being his last. It may have been his last at Ipswich and the last visit to a particular club can be a poignant one for a referee and those who knew him. In those days it would have been almost certain that he wouldn't be returning to Ipswich or any club he refereed in his final couple of months on the List - these days he could have turned up there again a couple of weeks later! Of course that's because of the way referees largely operate in one Division these days and referees are now either never refereeing clubs or officiating them multiple times per season. Interesting to speculate on whether a referee such as Dennis Turner would have been a Select Group / Premier League referee had the system operated back then or whether he'd have been a "Championship" referee or in Leagues 1 and 2. I suspect he would have been a Premier referee for much of his career.

I was also under the impression that he had gone to referee in the USA but that may be a misapprehension. Tom Reynolds (who was on the List for the exact same years) certainly did leave the List early to go and referee over there and it's possible Dennis Turner might have joined him or perhaps not. Various FL referees did go to the USA to referee (most notably Gordon Hill) - some emigrating but others just over the summer.   

Boris10

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Re: Final Games
« Reply #54 on: Fri 17 Jan 2020 09:54 »
Denis did get a reasonable share of First Division matches.Always seemed a steady referee-can't remember seeing any incidents-may have been elsewhere.Any offers?

reflector

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Re: Final Games
« Reply #55 on: Sat 18 Jan 2020 18:33 »
Denis did get a reasonable share of First Division matches.Always seemed a steady referee-can't remember seeing any incidents-may have been elsewhere.Any offers?
Yes,  I think he did get a number  of key First Division games.  I don't  recall any in particular but I think I am right in saying that he was the referee of the famous Hereford United v Newcastle cup tie with rhe Ronnie Radford  goal of the season winning goal which still gets shown today.
reflector

Whistleblower

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Re: Final Games
« Reply #56 on: Sat 18 Jan 2020 19:55 »
Denis did get a reasonable share of First Division matches.Always seemed a steady referee-can't remember seeing any incidents-may have been elsewhere.Any offers?
Yes,  I think he did get a number  of key First Division games.  I don't  recall any in particular but I think I am right in saying that he was the referee of the famous Hereford United v Newcastle cup tie with rhe Ronnie Radford  goal of the season winning goal which still gets shown today.

I am certain you are right reflector.

On my only visit to Old Trafford, back in the 1970s, Dennis Turner was the referee and I saw him quite a few times at Ipswich. Steady and sure are the words I would employ to describe  him. No histrionics, little fuss, got on with officiating which he looked as if he enjoyed. I wonder if he is still with us?
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Acme Thunderer

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Re: Final Games
« Reply #57 on: Sun 19 Jan 2020 11:53 »
Denis did get a reasonable share of First Division matches.Always seemed a steady referee-can't remember seeing any incidents-may have been elsewhere.Any offers?
Yes,  I think he did get a number  of key First Division games.  I don't  recall any in particular but I think I am right in saying that he was the referee of the famous Hereford United v Newcastle cup tie with rhe Ronnie Radford  goal of the season winning goal which still gets shown today.

...or the sight of Dennis being pursued back to the halfway line by most of the crowd from behind the goal after Hereford's winning goal was scored. Scary!
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Acme Thunderer

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Re: Final Games
« Reply #58 on: Sun 19 Jan 2020 12:12 »
Another game which Dennis refereed and which is remembered by many in South London was Leeds v Wimbledon (and replay) in the 4th round of the FA Cup in 1975. The game at Leeds was best remembered for a late penalty save by Wimbledon keeper Dickie Guy. No VAR needed as Gray was bundled over in the penalty area by Bassett. Guy was the hero but he was helped by Lorimer's penalty which was frankly pathetic by his standards. The game ended 0-0 and Leeds won the replay 1-0. A 10 minute clip of the game - with good sightings of Dennis - is on YouTube. 

TVOS

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Re: Final Games
« Reply #59 on: Wed 22 Jan 2020 16:49 »
Denis did get a reasonable share of First Division matches.Always seemed a steady referee-can't remember seeing any incidents-may have been elsewhere.Any offers?
Yes,  I think he did get a number  of key First Division games.  I don't  recall any in particular but I think I am right in saying that he was the referee of the famous Hereford United v Newcastle cup tie with rhe Ronnie Radford  goal of the season winning goal which still gets shown today.

I just caught up with an archive episode of The Big Match on BT Sport this morning and he was the referee for Leeds v Wimbledon in the FA Cup in January 1975, a game made famous for the performance of Dons' goalkeeper Dickie Guy.