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Author Topic: Wroxham v Hashtag  (Read 862 times)

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RefGod

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Wroxham v Hashtag
« on: Wed 01 Feb 2023 17:29 »
Looking for thoughts on this fixture, particularly the two red cards for the away. It is still being discussed amongst the contrib scene.



05:20 - 1st caution away 3.
06:45 - 2nd caution away 3.
07:30 - caution away 12.
09:45 - 1st caution away 15.
12:30 - foul on away 15.
14:30 - 2nd caution away 15.
15:45 - penalty for away 9.
« Last Edit: Wed 01 Feb 2023 17:37 by RefGod »

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adcr85

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Re: Wroxham v Hashtag
« Reply #1 on: Thu 02 Feb 2023 13:34 »
Watched this last night, as you say some interesting decisions.

First red card (2 yellows for left back in first 10 mins) both in isolation are probably cautions at that level, one slide in late and one shirt pull. Its one of those as the ref where though we deal with whats in front of us, you probably wouldn't want that in the first 10 mins of a game you are reffing that you know being filmed. Only slight issue with ref (though it may be editing) is he seemed to take a long time to get cards out which makes it look like he was reacting to the calls for a red, rather than working it out for himself.

Now I have no idea, but the 15 is an ex PL player, who Hashtag bring on after the first red card and with no evidence, I think they bring on to kill the game, sit in centre mid and potentially 'manage' the ref a little, and ends up getting 2 soft yellows - for dissent and simulation in his own third. The commentators argue that it was unfair but I think more he just kept on at the ref, was trying to ref the game itself and then the ref finds an excuse to get rid of him. Not saying right or wrong, but probably understandable.

Late penalty was a funny one, i think striker is already on the way down and defender falls on top of him - actually not as clear cut as some may think - but as it ends with defender lyign on top of striker, so penalty was correct.

Overall i think management of the game would have been hard after giving 2 yellows/red in first 10, as then every slide in and shirt pull became a yellow, thus leading to dissent and a bit of a farce. Potential answer would have been to manage the situation in the first 10 mins rather than give 2 yellows (potentially manage the first one), but also see if someone dives in after 3 mins giving yellow is fine, but you would hope that would calm the player down

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RefGod

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Re: Wroxham v Hashtag
« Reply #2 on: Thu 02 Feb 2023 18:03 »
Watched this last night, as you say some interesting decisions.

First red card (2 yellows for left back in first 10 mins) both in isolation are probably cautions at that level, one slide in late and one shirt pull. Its one of those as the ref where though we deal with whats in front of us, you probably wouldn't want that in the first 10 mins of a game you are reffing that you know being filmed. Only slight issue with ref (though it may be editing) is he seemed to take a long time to get cards out which makes it look like he was reacting to the calls for a red, rather than working it out for himself.

Now I have no idea, but the 15 is an ex PL player, who Hashtag bring on after the first red card and with no evidence, I think they bring on to kill the game, sit in centre mid and potentially 'manage' the ref a little, and ends up getting 2 soft yellows - for dissent and simulation in his own third. The commentators argue that it was unfair but I think more he just kept on at the ref, was trying to ref the game itself and then the ref finds an excuse to get rid of him. Not saying right or wrong, but probably understandable.

Late penalty was a funny one, i think striker is already on the way down and defender falls on top of him - actually not as clear cut as some may think - but as it ends with defender lyign on top of striker, so penalty was correct.

Overall i think management of the game would have been hard after giving 2 yellows/red in first 10, as then every slide in and shirt pull became a yellow, thus leading to dissent and a bit of a farce. Potential answer would have been to manage the situation in the first 10 mins rather than give 2 yellows (potentially manage the first one), but also see if someone dives in after 3 mins giving yellow is fine, but you would hope that would calm the player down

Saw on social media that the away club admit the editing does not give the full picture.
I am surprised this thread has not taken off considering the extensive debate that's still ongoing amongst officials at differing levels all over the country.

rustyref

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Re: Wroxham v Hashtag
« Reply #3 on: Thu 02 Feb 2023 18:22 »
First caution is stopping a promising attack so mandatory caution, especially at that level.  Ditto second caution, once a foul is given it can only be a caution and red.

Away 12 caution, he has clearly said something so been cautioned for dissent (no sin bin at this level).  Likewise away 15 seems to be dissent.

Foul on away 15.  Possible contact, but he has gone down very easily and was definitely looking for it.  Same really for his second caution, there may have been a tiny bit of contact but he has then flung himself down very dramatically.  Perhaps him being an ex-Premier League player means he has learned the dark arts but referees at this level are less likely to fall for it or turn a blind eye.

I'm really struggling to see the cause of the penalty, the attacker just seems to fall over then the defender falls on top of him.  There's a possible arm on his back, but he was already almost on his knees by that point.

Something that a lot of people in football don't understand, backed up by the comments on the video, is that when a player is fouled when moving into space it has to be a caution for stopping a promising attack.  It doesn't matter if the foul was "soft" or was totally accidental, it can only be a caution.

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MCPridz

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Re: Wroxham v Hashtag
« Reply #4 on: Thu 02 Feb 2023 23:03 »
Slightly off-topic so apologies but it is about Hashtag but I didn't know until looking up earlier today who the ex-prem player was that played for Hashtag which is Greg Halford, but the thing I found that is since 2018 Cesar Apzilicueta was a co-owner I did not know that, but it was this blog that did actually lead me to see who the ex-prem player was

Game of Throw Ins

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Re: Wroxham v Hashtag
« Reply #5 on: Fri 03 Feb 2023 11:22 »
I’m often the first to complain when referees ‘manage the game’ instead of enforcing the laws but I think that I would prefer to see a greater element of that in this case.

That being said I didn’t see any yellow cards that appeared to be obviously wrong. Not sure at all about the penalty decision though.

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RefGod

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Re: Wroxham v Hashtag
« Reply #6 on: Fri 03 Feb 2023 16:30 »
I’m often the first to complain when referees ‘manage the game’ instead of enforcing the laws but I think that I would prefer to see a greater element of that in this case.

That being said I didn’t see any yellow cards that appeared to be obviously wrong. Not sure at all about the penalty decision though.

This is without discussing decisions that were not given, particularly against Wroxham, of which many are evident in the video and could be considered cautionable utilising the rationale referenced by previous posts.
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