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Author Topic: Viktor Kassai M/C City v Shakhtar  (Read 1401 times)

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TheThingFromLewes

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Re: Viktor Kassai M/C City v Shakhtar
« Reply #15 on: Thu 08 Nov 2018 06:59 »
Oh dear..... that's all I can say really!

Microscopist

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Re: Viktor Kassai M/C City v Shakhtar
« Reply #16 on: Thu 08 Nov 2018 08:07 »
Why didn't Sterling 'own up'?
Of course it would have been to his credit if he had, but I must have missed the debate after last season's Manchester Derby criticising Ashley Young for not going up to Martin Atkinson and saying "Hey ref that was a red card challenge I made on Aguero in the penalty area, you need to send me off and award a penalty to City".

I must have mssed the debate after the previous season's Manchester Derby criticising Claudio Bravo for not going up to the referee and saying "Hey ref that was a red card challenge I made on Rooney in the penalty area, you need to send me off and award a penalty to United."
Yes, just so; thank you for expanding on my point that if one player can be criticised for not advising the referee that he has made an error in his own favour then that should apply to all players.  And for the flattery.  Of course if we could all apply the Corinthian ethos perfectly then we would see an amazing transformation in the world as a whole.  However, we could muse that that might render referees redundant and consequently lead to the demise of this forum.
 
Given that this utopia is unlikely to come about in our lifetime we should encourage the use of VAR, which would surely have reversed this decision.  If Guardiola is to be believed, Manchester City are in favour of VAR, unlike some of their rivals.  So perhaps we should direct our dismay at this decision not at the officials or players but rather at those who are resisting giving referees the benefits of modern technology to assist their decision making.
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Hadrian

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Re: Viktor Kassai M/C City v Shakhtar
« Reply #17 on: Thu 08 Nov 2018 08:33 »
What has happened to Kassai?

For a time, he was one of the best referees in Europe but he's been in decline for so long now. It's quite unusual for a career to peak so early.

It's a bit sad.

I agree.  He hasn't been a top referee for many years now.  This decision is still staggering though.

QuoCob

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Re: Viktor Kassai M/C City v Shakhtar
« Reply #18 on: Thu 08 Nov 2018 09:17 »
Why didn't Sterling 'own up'?
Of course it would have been to his credit if he had, but I must have missed the debate after last season's Manchester Derby criticising Ashley Young for not going up to Martin Atkinson and saying "Hey ref that was a red card challenge I made on Aguero in the penalty area, you need to send me off and award a penalty to City".

I must have mssed the debate after the previous season's Manchester Derby criticising Claudio Bravo for not going up to the referee and saying "Hey ref that was a red card challenge I made on Rooney in the penalty area, you need to send me off and award a penalty to United."
Yes, just so; thank you for expanding on my point that if one player can be criticised for not advising the referee that he has made an error in his own favour then that should apply to all players.  And for the flattery.  Of course if we could all apply the Corinthian ethos perfectly then we would see an amazing transformation in the world as a whole.  However, we could muse that that might render referees redundant and consequently lead to the demise of this forum.
 
Given that this utopia is unlikely to come about in our lifetime we should encourage the use of VAR, which would surely have reversed this decision.  If Guardiola is to be believed, Manchester City are in favour of VAR, unlike some of their rivals.  So perhaps we should direct our dismay at this decision not at the officials or players but rather at those who are resisting giving referees the benefits of modern technology to assist their decision making.


My initial comment wasn't intended to be a criticism.
However in hindsight he probably wishes he had now because he would have been world wide now, in a similar fashion to the di Canio incident when he caught the ball when the goalkeeper was injured.
“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.”  Laurence Binyon

QuoCob

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Re: Viktor Kassai M/C City v Shakhtar
« Reply #19 on: Thu 08 Nov 2018 09:22 »
Regarding the decision, it is an excellent example to up and coming officials that it doesn't matter how far behind the quick break you are, get yourself as wide as possible to give you that better angle for such a challenge.  He remained linear, therefore didn't give himself that opportunity.
“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.”  Laurence Binyon

ajb95

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Re: Viktor Kassai M/C City v Shakhtar
« Reply #20 on: Thu 08 Nov 2018 10:21 »
Regarding the decision, it is an excellent example to up and coming officials that it doesn't matter how far behind the quick break you are, get yourself as wide as possible to give you that better angle for such a challenge.  He remained linear, therefore didn't give himself that opportunity.

But there was an assistant on the far side and an AAR in the penalty area who could have helped out! If AAR are to be used then they need to start DOING SOMETHING!!
It’s decisions like this that will get an untested, rushed VAR through who will ultimately make the decisions and all referees will be robotic or redundant!

bmb

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Re: Viktor Kassai M/C City v Shakhtar
« Reply #21 on: Thu 08 Nov 2018 12:24 »
I'm gutted for him.  He has been having a great season, including in Europe. He is still one of the best referees in Europe, as his merit marks so far this season have reflected before last night, but that was an absolute howler. To a degree I can understand it from his viewpoint, the Shakatar defender does kick out literally a second before Sterling goes to ground, and his mind has filled in the rest. It's when you see the side view that he did not have, that you can really see the defender is 2 feet away and even bmb with her girly driving could have driven a double decker bus through the gap. From the behind view that he had, that gap is not so easy to judge. He needed help from his AAR that didn't come, as kelxref has already pointed out, Tamás supported the decision, when they show the replay from just a bit towards the corner from Tamás, you can see him speaking over the comms and he points his baton towards the penalty spot, so he has let Viktor down there, imo. Thereagain his view looked to be partially obscured by the goalie who was outstretched on the floor by then.  I haven't seen any reply that shows the angle/view that György had or whether he was in a better position to help. I'm pretty sure György would have been yelling "nem büntetőrúgás" down the comms if he had a good view. György is one of the best ARs going and has always been the most reliable member of Viktor's team.

It would have been nice if Sterling had owned up at the time instead of apologising to the ref and opposition in his interview after.  He did not dive, it was not a deliberate act in going down but in my mind by not owning up at the time & saying ref I tripped up he never touched me, it then becomes an attempt to deceive the referee. He knew that should not have been a pen. Whether Viktor would have reversed the decision or not I don't know but the scope is there for him to change it before the ball is back in play.  Fair play to Pep for at least saying to the 4th official straight away that Sterling had tripped & I thought he was absolute class in his post match interview when discussing it. I'm not sure what the allowance is for a 4th official to step in and say to the ref, you've ballsed up there mate, reverse the decision and give a drop ball - certainly VAR would have given him that option.

He did at least get the other 3 penalty shouts spot on! Changed his accuracy rate on the big calls from 100% wrong to 75% correct/25% wrong! Like I say I am absolutely gutted for him, he's been superb this season so far and I was so desperate for him to carry on that form. I hope this doesn't knock his confidence too much. For me he is still one of the best and most reliable (more often than not) refs out there.

My final word on the matter - we all know about my absolute obsessive hatred of yellow. It is of no coincidence in bmb's mind that the very first time he has worn yellow this season he made his very first KMI error... Perhaps now Mr K will finally believe me that it is a vile and very evil colour and should never be worn! Domestically he has worn black in every game bar one, when he wore blue, in Saudi he wore orange in one game, red in the other, in Europe/International games he has worn black & maybe blue once as well - zero errors. All big calls correct including in one domestic game where there were a total of 12 huge calls - 2 red cards, a goal disallowed, a pen given, another pen shout correctly not given - they were mostly against my team as well, we lost and were reduced to 9 men but it was an absolute masterclass ref performance - he wore black! There is an analysis of that game here if anyone is interested: http://www.hungarianfootball.com/2018/07/26/ujpest-v-mtk-a-look-at-the-big-calls/! I've not quite forgiven him yet for sending off my main man Branko, correct decision or not, mind! Currently I am certainly not in the mood to be forgiving of the vile yellow shirt last night! Take my advice Mr K and burn it!!
« Last Edit: Thu 08 Nov 2018 12:27 by bmb »
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
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bmb

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Re: Viktor Kassai M/C City v Shakhtar
« Reply #22 on: Thu 08 Nov 2018 12:46 »
I think Bmb will at the brandy and somewhat distraught or she will be giving Viktir the elbow lol

I'm on the palinká - it'll look a bit better after a few more of them! He's damn lucky he has such a cute smile!
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!

QuoCob

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Re: Viktor Kassai M/C City v Shakhtar
« Reply #23 on: Thu 08 Nov 2018 13:25 »
Regarding the decision, it is an excellent example to up and coming officials that it doesn't matter how far behind the quick break you are, get yourself as wide as possible to give you that better angle for such a challenge.  He remained linear, therefore didn't give himself that opportunity.

But there was an assistant on the far side and an AAR in the penalty area who could have helped out! If AAR are to be used then they need to start DOING SOMETHING!!
It’s decisions like this that will get an untested, rushed VAR through who will ultimately make the decisions and all referees will be robotic or redundant!

You are confusing my comment by applying it to this incident, I am applying it to up and coming 'grassroots' officials as a learning message.
“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.”  Laurence Binyon

TheThingFromLewes

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Re: Viktor Kassai M/C City v Shakhtar
« Reply #24 on: Thu 08 Nov 2018 17:17 »
What kind of mark would Kassai get from the observer for making such a dreadful error?

rustyref

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Re: Viktor Kassai M/C City v Shakhtar
« Reply #25 on: Thu 08 Nov 2018 17:25 »
What kind of mark would Kassai get from the observer for making such a dreadful error?


7.9, assuming that was his only incorrect KMI in the game.

Boz

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Re: Viktor Kassai M/C City v Shakhtar
« Reply #26 on: Thu 08 Nov 2018 19:02 »
While I would have preferred Sterling to try and alert Mr Kassai to the mistake in awarding a penalty, I also accept Microscopist's points that the typical modern player wouldn't do so and VAR could have rectified things here. Also recall Robbie Fowler telling a referee (Mr Elleray?) a penalty he'd awarded against Arsenal was wrong, but the official didn't change his mind.

bmb

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Re: Viktor Kassai M/C City v Shakhtar
« Reply #27 on: Thu 08 Nov 2018 20:00 »
I think Bmb will at the brandy and somewhat distraught or she will be giving Viktir the elbow lol

I'm on the palinká - it'll look a bit better after a few more of them! He's damn lucky he has such a cute smile!

Turkish ref in the Vidi game was kinda cute, albeit a bit young! Mr K needs to up his game - less yellow & more smiles or his top totty spot might also be in jeopardy!
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!

Wollongong Ref

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Re: Viktor Kassai M/C City v Shakhtar
« Reply #28 on: Thu 08 Nov 2018 22:50 »
As a MUFC  fan (please do not throw things at me) can I throw something into the mix to defend the City player..... In that split second of kicking the turf would he have known? or would his instinctive response been to think he was tripped/ tackled from behind and there for that is why he fell over?
As for the referee.... clearly no width. This has become the default position for referees around the world. While it works generally well, when it goes wrong it goes very wrong.
Has the amount of refereeing over the last 15 years taken a toll mentally and in terms of fatigue. We see in Australia our top referees burn out well before their retirement age

robbie_scouse

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Re: Viktor Kassai M/C City v Shakhtar
« Reply #29 on: Fri 09 Nov 2018 08:11 »
Also recall Robbie Fowler telling a referee (Mr Elleray?) a penalty he'd awarded against Arsenal was wrong, but the official didn't change his mind.
It was the late Gerald Ashby who gave the penalty and, as you say, refused to change his mind in spite of Robbie Fowler's protests.  Fowler took, and missed, the subsequent spot kick, although Jason McAteer (IIRC) netted the rebound.