Author Topic: The VAR thread  (Read 33043 times)

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nemesis

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #30 on: Sun 06 Jan 2019 11:50 »

I also agree with Nemesis about opening up the VAR's role although I guess for them to have credibility, they would need to have refereeing experience at a decent level.


They don't need to have regularly got things wrong in the middle to have credibility as a VAR !

QuoCob

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #31 on: Sun 06 Jan 2019 13:06 »
I’m surprised that this thread has not mentioned the poor handling by Simon Hooper. Penalty awarded. The player taking had actually started his run up when he stopped him and awarded an offside. Very messy. Surely he should have told the players they had to wait and it might have been better if he had kept possession of the ball. Maybe the VAR is right and that’s important but the refs need to utilise it properly.

TBH I don't think he handled it poorly, he wasn't aware that VAR were continuing to be involved following the initial decision/advice and probably got a STOP STOP STOP in his earpiece just as the player was about to run up to take the PK.
Did anyone else notice the wry smile and joke with the players following his award of the second penalty?
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Acme Thunderer

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #32 on: Sun 06 Jan 2019 16:31 »
It seems that the use of VAR in England will more commonly involve the referee simply accepting the information from the VAR rather than going to the screen as we saw at the World Cup.

I know this has raised debate on here previously.

Personally I generally prefer the process of the referee going to the monitor, partly because it is more standardised across the world. I also think it helps preserve the referee's authority if they are the one making the decision and prevents cases of a referee making a decision they wouldn't actually have given with the benefit of replays, whilst also making it clearer to the crowd/viewers who then know to expect the decision to be changed rather than a yellow card suddenly becoming a red card as happened at Palace today for instance. I can understand the arguments for not incorporating this element however.

I still think the end objective has to be to mic the officials up so everyone can hear what is being discussed to help fill the time waiting for the decision.

I presume UEFA will follow a policy more closely related to that which we saw in the World Cup when VAR is introduced in the Champions League next month.

Biased, yes perhaps, but I applaud the decision of Martin Atkinson, via the VAR, to change from a yellow card to a red in the second minute of the Palace v Grimsby game. OK, a second rate game but the decision to change needed to be made and was perfectly correct, as TV replays showed. If only VAR had been available to Taylor when Kompany launched himself into a very similar tackle in the top-of-the PL game at City the other day.   

Boz

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #33 on: Sun 06 Jan 2019 16:44 »
Talking of Mr Taylor, I will be interested to see the penalty awarded to Fulham. Reports suggest strong suspicsion of a dive by Tom Cairney, referred to VAR but not overturned.

Boz

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #34 on: Sun 06 Jan 2019 18:36 »
Have now seen the Fulham penalty awarded by Mr Taylor and endorsed by Mr Probert the VAR official. The contact appeared minor, shouldn’t have caused Cairney to go down and a poor initial decision by Mr Taylor. Unsure how the VAR role works here, would Mr Probert only be able to advise overturning if there was NO contact as opposed to the minimal contact/exaggerated response here?

RCG

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #35 on: Sun 06 Jan 2019 19:22 »
We are back to was it a clear and obvious error? From TV you can only judge what contact has been seen. Would be nice to think they could suggest exaggerated movement but i doubt it. Could we 100% say it was not a penalty?

SuffolkRef

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #36 on: Sun 06 Jan 2019 19:42 »
I’m surprised that this thread has not mentioned the poor handling by Simon Hooper. Penalty awarded. The player taking had actually started his run up when he stopped him and awarded an offside. Very messy. Surely he should have told the players they had to wait and it might have been better if he had kept possession of the ball. Maybe the VAR is right and that’s important but the refs need to utilise it properly.

TBH I don't think he handled it poorly, he wasn't aware that VAR were continuing to be involved following the initial decision/advice and probably got a STOP STOP STOP in his earpiece just as the player was about to run up to take the PK.
Did anyone else notice the wry smile and joke with the players following his award of the second penalty?

While it may not be Hooper's fault, surely those hidden away in a room near London should be informing him that they were still reviewing the potential of an offside ?

Readingfan

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #37 on: Sun 06 Jan 2019 20:03 »
As I said, I think Hooper was delaying the penalty until the review was over and when he blew the whistle it was to reverse the decision but Vydra thought it was the penalty to be taken and so started his run-up.

Sean Dyche suggested the referee should hold the ball whilst the VAR review is ongoing. I suppose it could make it clearer although equally it would result in slight delays if he then got the all clear because they'd have to set up the set piece.

rustyref

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #38 on: Sun 06 Jan 2019 20:35 »
Surely the simple answer is for the referee to stand in front of the ball and put his finger to his ear?

Matt

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #39 on: Sun 06 Jan 2019 20:48 »
Surely the simple answer is for the referee to stand in front of the ball and put his finger to his ear?
Do be serious!

Simplicity in the UK game?

BabyRef

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #40 on: Sun 06 Jan 2019 21:10 »
Couldn't ref stand in front of the ball like they do for a free kick?

Carter

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #41 on: Sun 06 Jan 2019 21:32 »
It seems that the use of VAR in England will more commonly involve the referee simply accepting the information from the VAR rather than going to the screen as we saw at the World Cup.

I know this has raised debate on here previously.

Personally I generally prefer the process of the referee going to the monitor, partly because it is more standardised across the world. I also think it helps preserve the referee's authority if they are the one making the decision and prevents cases of a referee making a decision they wouldn't actually have given with the benefit of replays, whilst also making it clearer to the crowd/viewers who then know to expect the decision to be changed rather than a yellow card suddenly becoming a red card as happened at Palace today for instance. I can understand the arguments for not incorporating this element however.

I still think the end objective has to be to mic the officials up so everyone can hear what is being discussed to help fill the time waiting for the decision.

I presume UEFA will follow a policy more closely related to that which we saw in the World Cup when VAR is introduced in the Champions League next month.

Biased, yes perhaps, but I applaud the decision of Martin Atkinson, via the VAR, to change from a yellow card to a red in the second minute of the Palace v Grimsby game. OK, a second rate game but the decision to change needed to be made and was perfectly correct, as TV replays showed. If only VAR had been available to Taylor when Kompany launched himself into a very similar tackle in the top-of-the PL game at City the other day.


I would more worry that a top select group referee failed to see a dangerous tackle, without referall.
Im also not sure Atkinson overturned it as he didnt go t the camera position

nemesis

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #42 on: Mon 07 Jan 2019 18:33 »

The whole concept is doomed to failure if they allow the VAR to be operated by whichever imbecile didn't have the guts to over-rule Taylor at Fulham.

Absolute farce.

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Readingfan

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #43 on: Mon 07 Jan 2019 18:49 »

Why do VAR referees have to be actual referees?  Opening up the position to those who are way short of those fitness levels and may not have the man-management skills of referees, such as they are, will give a massively larger pool from which to source the very best at making VAR decisions. It's such a different skill that it's unlikely the best at one will also be the best at the other.

An interesting point - I wonder if we will eventually see specialist VARs like specialist assistant referees?

QuoCob

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #44 on: Tue 08 Jan 2019 07:25 »

Why do VAR referees have to be actual referees?  Opening up the position to those who are way short of those fitness levels and may not have the man-management skills of referees, such as they are, will give a massively larger pool from which to source the very best at making VAR decisions. It's such a different skill that it's unlikely the best at one will also be the best at the other.

Agree, as long as the final decision remains with the on field official to retain their ability to interpret the Law as is required and appropriate.
“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.”  Laurence Binyon