RateTheRef

Quote from: bmb on Wed 19 Jun 2019 01:16

Quote from: Hendo on Tue 18 Jun 2019 23:07

Quote from: JCFC on Mon 17 Jun 2019 21:53

The French attackers must have shown remarkable self-control at the retaken penalty: none of them can have had even a toe on the line before the kick or it would have been retaken. Or would it? Perhaps that is a law that is not to be observed by VAR. It would at least have been good to see a wider view replayed!

If you freeze the action the moment the kick is taken there is a French forward encroaching in the box so it should have been retaken if this general pedantic behaviour from the VAR s is to be consistent. But no, it’s the host country so let it go

That's not the role of the VAR unless anyone encroaching becomes directly involved in play. Nothing to do with it being the host nation. *YAWN* Perhaps try to actually read up on the role of the VAR & their responsibilities...

It's up to the referee to decide on encroachment not the VAR, unless the player encroaching benefits directly from doing so. If there was encroachment then that is on the ref not VAR.

In relation to penalties the VAR role is as follows:

The role of the VAR is to ensure that no clearly wrong decisions are taken in conjunction with awarding or not awarding a penalty kick. This includes:

a) penalty kick incorrectly awarded
b) penalty kick offence not penalised
c) location of offence (inside or outside the penalty area)
d) offence by the attacking team in the build-up to the penalty incident
e) ball out of play prior to the incident
f) offence by goalkeeper and/or kicker at the taking of the penalty kick
g) encroachment by an attacker or defender who becomes directly involved in play if the penalty kick rebounds from the goalpost, cross bar or goalkeeper.

IMO. All you are really saying is that the whole VAR system has been ill-thought-out

Well there is that as well! More seriously though it is in its early stages and there are many tweaks to come yet. Hopefully the tweaks will improve the areas that need it.  It's the sort of thing that you can talk about all day long and easily miss x scenario when trying to foresee what it needs to be helping with but the reality is that it is the sort of thing that can only be improved upon having seen it in action.

Quote from: Hendo on Tue 18 Jun 2019 23:07

Quote from: JCFC on Mon 17 Jun 2019 21:53

The French attackers must have shown remarkable self-control at the retaken penalty: none of them can have had even a toe on the line before the kick or it would have been retaken. Or would it? Perhaps that is a law that is not to be observed by VAR. It would at least have been good to see a wider view replayed!

If you freeze the action the moment the kick is taken there is a French forward encroaching in the box so it should have been retaken if this general pedantic behaviour from the VAR s is to be consistent. But no, it’s the host country so let it go

That's not the role of the VAR unless anyone encroaching becomes directly involved in play. Nothing to do with it being the host nation. *YAWN* Perhaps try to actually read up on the role of the VAR & their responsibilities...

It's up to the referee to decide on encroachment not the VAR, unless the player encroaching benefits directly from doing so. If there was encroachment then that is on the ref not VAR.

In relation to penalties the VAR role is as follows:

The role of the VAR is to ensure that no clearly wrong decisions are taken in conjunction with awarding or not awarding a penalty kick. This includes:

a) penalty kick incorrectly awarded
b) penalty kick offence not penalised
c) location of offence (inside or outside the penalty area)
d) offence by the attacking team in the build-up to the penalty incident
e) ball out of play prior to the incident
f) offence by goalkeeper and/or kicker at the taking of the penalty kick
g) encroachment by an attacker or defender who becomes directly involved in play if the penalty kick rebounds from the goalpost, cross bar or goalkeeper.

Indeed, that is the remit of VAR.

So just as the referees on the field do, the authorities are picking and choosing which Laws to apply/check for.

This is a nonsense. If they don't want a Law on encroachment, get rid - or water down. Don't just ignore it.

Quote from: bmb on Wed 19 Jun 2019 14:21

Quote from: doowe on Wed 19 Jun 2019 07:43

Quote from: bmb on Wed 19 Jun 2019 01:16

Quote from: Hendo on Tue 18 Jun 2019 23:07

Quote from: JCFC on Mon 17 Jun 2019 21:53

The French attackers must have shown remarkable self-control at the retaken penalty: none of them can have had even a toe on the line before the kick or it would have been retaken. Or would it? Perhaps that is a law that is not to be observed by VAR. It would at least have been good to see a wider view replayed!

If you freeze the action the moment the kick is taken there is a French forward encroaching in the box so it should have been retaken if this general pedantic behaviour from the VAR s is to be consistent. But no, it’s the host country so let it go

That's not the role of the VAR unless anyone encroaching becomes directly involved in play. Nothing to do with it being the host nation. *YAWN* Perhaps try to actually read up on the role of the VAR & their responsibilities...

It's up to the referee to decide on encroachment not the VAR, unless the player encroaching benefits directly from doing so. If there was encroachment then that is on the ref not VAR.

In relation to penalties the VAR role is as follows:

The role of the VAR is to ensure that no clearly wrong decisions are taken in conjunction with awarding or not awarding a penalty kick. This includes:

a) penalty kick incorrectly awarded
b) penalty kick offence not penalised
c) location of offence (inside or outside the penalty area)
d) offence by the attacking team in the build-up to the penalty incident
e) ball out of play prior to the incident
f) offence by goalkeeper and/or kicker at the taking of the penalty kick
g) encroachment by an attacker or defender who becomes directly involved in play if the penalty kick rebounds from the goalpost, cross bar or goalkeeper.

IMO. All you are really saying is that the whole VAR system has been ill-thought-out

Well there is that as well! More seriously though it is in its early stages and there are many tweaks to come yet. Hopefully the tweaks will improve the areas that need it.  It's the sort of thing that you can talk about all day long and easily miss x scenario when trying to foresee what it needs to be helping with but the reality is that it is the sort of thing that can only be improved upon having seen it in action.

I think you have hit the nail on the head regarding the tweaks to come, hence my original comment. The problems should have been ironed out behind closed doors, before being foisted on the public and opening the system to justified criticism.

I played cricket for many years to a reasonable standard but would never have felt competent to write the criteria for the DRS system, even though it is easier to apply to that game. Those who did formulate the policies, more or less got it right from the start when it was introduced real time.

Likewise, rugby union is a game I enjoy on TV, whist being ignorant of the not so fine details. It seems to me that, again, there has hardly ever been any problems when the review system comes into play.

For many years Sepp Blatter insisted it would never happen in football, but when it did, it was done with what seemed to be with undue haste and a Laissez-faire attitude

I think Sepp Blatter's opposition was the main aspect stopping the system from being implemented because there was a growing clamour for it to be introduced. The timescale was probably dictated by wanting it ready for the 2018 World Cup and I think it had a generally positive use in that tournament.

There was a lot of consideration that went into the process. There was an initial phase of testing to determine and refine the protocol and then a two year live testing period. The system was tested in over 2000 games, including 972 competitive games (i.e. approx two and a half Premier League seasons.) Emphasis was given to the competitive games because these entailed a more realistic use of VAR.

Additionally, players and coaches regularly contribute to advisory panels. In relation to VAR, a survey was undertaken with about 15,000 supporters from 25 different countries and 80% were in favour of VAR. The number of associations/competitions interested in using VAR increased from 6 in June 2016 to over 40 by the start of 2018. It seems to me that there are an increased number of associations looking to introduce the system following its use at the World Cup.

It was recognised that there are a number of challenge relating to each individual association/competition implementing VAR, relating to a range of aspects such as project managements, referee/VAR education and training, and financial/technological provision. I would suggest that generally the system improves in each country as experience develops and usage improves.

All of this is taken from the IFAB minutes from the March 2018 meeting here - http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/781/140832_240119_IFAB_AGM2018Minutes_v1.0.pdf

There was additionally a podcast interview with the CEO of IFAB relatively recently. He noted some of the work that has gone into the system, including consultation with many other sports that have used video refereeing. He stated that he thought the protocol was pretty much set in stone after the work that has gone into it and he did not anticipate any major changes in the near future - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lukas-brud-the-ceo-of-ifab/id1355692059?i=1000425811521

In summary, I personally think that the foundations and principles of VAR are generally reasonable ones and I don't envisage too much deviation from these. Football is more subjective than many sports and are always going to be decisions that people don'It agree with but I think that the evidence suggests this often improves with time, like most processes in life. The main change I would like to see is being able to hear the VAR but I'm not sure how many people would regard this as a major issue - I think that video refereeing is long overdue and will be of benefit to officiating and the game.

Quote from: nemesis on Wed 19 Jun 2019 15:48

This is a nonsense. If they don't want a Law on encroachment, get rid - or water down. Don't just ignore it.

Totally! To me it seems ludicrous to have encroachment dealt with (or not) by the ref but change it to VAR if whoever has encroached then essentially plays the ball from a rebound - if they want to keep encroachment then let either the ref or the VAR deal with every aspect of it instead of trying to share out various elements across the team. That in itself will cause confusion unnecessarily.

I think that it kind of makes sense in terms of the VAR intervention because as we have seen people get frustrated when perceived minor/trivial technical offences are pulled up so if a penalty goes straight in and is disallowed a few minutes later because an attacking player had a toe in the penalty area or vice versa then it becomes controversial because no one is expecting it and it is not considered to have had a material effect.

I do agree with Nemesis though that it would probably be sensible to apply a similar ruling to all penalties.

and we have another farcical var decision tonight, with the keeper saving the penalty and it was forced to be retaken for minimal movement of her line. the amount of times scotland have been on the wrong end of var decisions in this world cup is a disgrace

If you're either on or off for offside then surely you are either on or off the line for the purposes of this.

The main complain Scotland should have is regards the lack of additional time. That was absolutely disgraceful. I think that Hyang Ok Ri should be ashamed and shouldn't referee another game in this tournament certainly.

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but penalty shoot outs will take an age under these interuptations....But my main question is will a goalkeeper be cautioned for moving off their line during a penalty shoot out?

Yes - I'm sure at some point someone will do it twice and be sent off.

The addition of the caution seems to fly on the face of other directives (change of dogso etc). A keeper moves a fraction early, saves a penalty and because that picture can now be frozen on a tv screen and scrutinised, gets penalised with a retake and a caution - harsh in my humblest opinion.
The Korean referee is the greatest example of why timing should be done by someone else and clearly communicated.
The BBC feed had the appeal for the penalty at 86 mins, penalty saved at 91 mins and goal scored at 94 minutes. 8 minutes real time but actually only about 30 seconds playing time whilst VAR tried to get through to the referee. So roughly 10% of that match time was given over to the penalty decision and associated fuss
Not one player realised she had blown the final whistle, that says something

An absolute total utter disgrace tonight! If I were Scotland I’d be sending in a strongly worded letter first thing tomorrow morning! The refereeing has been nothing short of rubbish but the farce that is VAR is making football IMO, unwatchable - it’s not just the fans that are suffering, it’s the players too!