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Author Topic: The VAR thread  (Read 64709 times)

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bruntyboy

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #150 on: Thu 06 Jun 2019 23:23 »
How will stopping the on screen clock solve anything?

Readingfan

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #151 on: Thu 06 Jun 2019 23:42 »
I would be happy for some kind of independent timekeeper.

I think VAR has provided some great drama over the past two nights - tonight's was tight but I believe correct. It would not be right for a place in a final to be decided by a marginal offside.

Joecphillips

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #152 on: Fri 07 Jun 2019 00:06 »
England v Holland, Lingard goal disallowed for offside by VAR.

Perfect example of it being too close to call and the benefit should go to the forward. They have to do something like in cricket with Umpires call if the margin isn't significant. They have to make the line wider to take the closeness out.
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Also do what they do in Rugby and physically stop the clock when VAR is being used

Totally disagree, it is what the modern fan and the media want, therefore they have to ensure that every decision is 100% correct. AR is instructed not to flag so how can it then be like cricket because no call has been made?

I am totally against VAR, however, it is the way that our beloved game is going and we will just have to accept it as the way forward because UEFA and FIFA are totally behind its use.
As far as stopping the clock is concerned --when do you do this? In last night's match the  game had progressed down the other end of the field when there was a review of an incident in the other penalty area  resulting in a penalty. Should t he clock them be wound back to when the original offence was deemed to have been committed or when the incident was referred which was some  time later?

The whole thing is a total mess, however, it will rule the game from now on --very sad indeed. Goal line technology is great, however, VAR ............

The linesman can be instructed to flag at the end of the move and go from there

Toprefm

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #153 on: Fri 07 Jun 2019 09:30 »
I would be happy for some kind of independent timekeeper.

I think VAR has provided some great drama over the past two nights - tonight's was tight but I believe correct. It would not be right for a place in a final to be decided by a marginal offside.

But it has been decided by a marginal offside and I'm not convinced that VAR should overturn something that is that close to call and not so long ago the benefit was to go to attackers which it did yesterday until VAR was used and I think that margin is too tight and would be saying this if it had been a Dutch goal. I'd much rather it be used to clear the blinding obvious errors like against Cardiff

Readingfan

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #154 on: Fri 07 Jun 2019 11:05 »
I would be happy for some kind of independent timekeeper.

I think VAR has provided some great drama over the past two nights - tonight's was tight but I believe correct. It would not be right for a place in a final to be decided by a marginal offside.

But it has been decided by a marginal offside and I'm not convinced that VAR should overturn something that is that close to call and not so long ago the benefit was to go to attackers which it did yesterday until VAR was used and I think that margin is too tight and would be saying this if it had been a Dutch goal. I'd much rather it be used to clear the blinding obvious errors like against Cardiff

But then how do you decide which are the blindingly obvious and which offsides are only 'marginal'.

The benefit previously had to sometimes go to the attacker because the judgement had to be made by an assistant at pitch level who had one look at it and wasn't always in the right position, etc.

There might be some goals ruled out for tight offsides but there will equally be others given where hte assistant think it's offside but is actually onside (we saw this with Man Utd V Barcelona and Porto V Liverpool in the CL quarter-finals) and equally we are seeing more penalties awarded so the overall number of goals scored is more likely to increase rather than decrease.

Liverpool very, very nearly scored against Man City in January whilst Man City only just scored against Burnley near the end of the season. If we hadn't had GDS for those incidents then perhaps they would have bene called incorrectly but, whilst both were marginal, both were correct in the end.

bruntyboy

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #155 on: Fri 07 Jun 2019 23:12 »
As I understand it GDS is a totally different system to VAR and looks at the position of the ball from many camera angles. VAR for offsides only seems to provide one viewpoint which often isn't directly in line with play and doesn't always look at the foremost part of a player's body (arms excluded). Also VAR is stopped at a point in time at the operator's discretion as to when the ball is deemed to be played forward.

rustyref

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #156 on: Sat 08 Jun 2019 16:39 »
England v Holland, Lingard goal disallowed for offside by VAR.

Perfect example of it being too close to call and the benefit should go to the forward. They have to do something like in cricket with Umpires call if the margin isn't significant. They have to make the line wider to take the closeness out.
.
Also do what they do in Rugby and physically stop the clock when VAR is being used

It's factual, you are on or you are off, even if there is only millimetres in it.  As long as the technology is accurate they have to judge offsides as on or off, they can't say it is too tight to call as that says the technology isn't good enough.
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guest42

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #157 on: Thu 13 Jun 2019 06:40 »
So what we learnt from last night in the France game is that VAR determines that an attacker jumping in two footed is fair game and will actually get you a penalty in the tournament thatís being hosted in your own country...

Failed Ref

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #158 on: Thu 13 Jun 2019 07:27 »
I am struggling with France penalty award last night! Have I misunderstood the interpretation of the LOG?

Ashington46

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #159 on: Thu 13 Jun 2019 09:20 »
I am struggling with France penalty award last night! Have I misunderstood the interpretation of the LOG?

You are not on your own!
The referee, a Bundesliga Official, seemed content to play on, however, just as in the World Cup Final, VAR intervened.
These two incidents in high profile FIFA Tournaments have convinced me that the referees could well have been placed under pressure to award penalties using FIFA's new toy to justify the decisions ---neither of which I can come to terms with the more I watch  them.
Strange that France have benefited from them both.

I know that changes are made with the aim of improving the game. however, the modern game is becoming far removed from the game which I played and officiated in for almost 60 years and, personally, I don't like it.
Referee's decision used to be final!

Microscopist

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #160 on: Thu 13 Jun 2019 11:29 »
Quote
It's factual, you are on or you are off, even if there is only millimetres in it.  As long as the technology is accurate they have to judge offsides as on or off, they can't say it is too tight to call as that says the technology isn't good enough.
In absolute terms you are right but every measurement has a margin of error.  In the case of goal line technology I'd expect this to be very small because it monitors a relatively small area and the cameras can be positioned to give optimum effect.  However, for offside the error will likely be a bit higher, for a few reasons including: the cameras cannot always be optimally positioned and due to finite time intervals between frames (not withstanding the philosophical choice of whether the ball is played at the moment the foot makes contact with the ball or the moment that it leaves the foot).  An average error could be calculated for these decisions as seems to be the case in cricket LBW decisions where the error is assessed (or guessed?) as half the width of the ball. If we apply the concept of measurement error in the case of an offside decision, lets say that the degree of error is +/- 2.5cm then a line 5cm wide could be drawn centered on the most goalward relevant part of the last defender's body.  Then if any relevant part of an attacker's body is goalside of this line then it is offside irrespective of the original decision on the field.  Alternatively if all of the relevant parts of an attacker are further away from the line then the decision is onside irrespective of the on field decision,  If the nearest relevant point of an attacker to goal is within the width of the line then the decision reverts to the on-field official's decision.
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Readingfan

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #161 on: Thu 13 Jun 2019 15:57 »
I certainly think that the Norway player committed a foul, although certainly a strong case that the French player committed one first.

As for offsides, whilst there is some margin for error I do think that technology is more accurate than a human can be in real time so am happy to go with what the technology indicates.
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nemesis

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #162 on: Thu 13 Jun 2019 17:24 »
I am struggling with France penalty award last night! Have I misunderstood the interpretation of the LOG?

You are not on your own!
The referee, a Bundesliga Official, seemed content to play on, however, just as in the World Cup Final, VAR intervened.
These two incidents in high profile FIFA Tournaments have convinced me that the referees could well have been placed under pressure to award penalties using FIFA's new toy to justify the decisions ---neither of which I can come to terms with the more I watch  them.
Strange that France have benefited from them both.

I know that changes are made with the aim of improving the game. however, the modern game is becoming far removed from the game which I played and officiated in for almost 60 years and, personally, I don't like it.

It's strange that you find that strange!

guest18

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #163 on: Thu 13 Jun 2019 21:34 »
Quote
It's factual, you are on or you are off, even if there is only millimetres in it.  As long as the technology is accurate they have to judge offsides as on or off, they can't say it is too tight to call as that says the technology isn't good enough.
In absolute terms you are right but every measurement has a margin of error.  In the case of goal line technology I'd expect this to be very small because it monitors a relatively small area and the cameras can be positioned to give optimum effect.  However, for offside the error will likely be a bit higher, for a few reasons including: the cameras cannot always be optimally positioned and due to finite time intervals between frames (not withstanding the philosophical choice of whether the ball is played at the moment the foot makes contact with the ball or the moment that it leaves the foot).  An average error could be calculated for these decisions as seems to be the case in cricket LBW decisions where the error is assessed (or guessed?) as half the width of the ball. If we apply the concept of measurement error in the case of an offside decision, lets say that the degree of error is +/- 2.5cm then a line 5cm wide could be drawn centered on the most goalward relevant part of the last defender's body.  Then if any relevant part of an attacker's body is goalside of this line then it is offside irrespective of the original decision on the field.  Alternatively if all of the relevant parts of an attacker are further away from the line then the decision is onside irrespective of the on field decision,  If the nearest relevant point of an attacker to goal is within the width of the line then the decision reverts to the on-field official's decision.

 
Phew! Iím glad it wouldnít be me rewriting Law 11.

Scally Bob

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #164 on: Thu 13 Jun 2019 21:54 »
That penalty in the France v Norway game is never a penalty in the memory of man (or woman). Itís pathetic. Officials are being bullied into giving decisions because VAR is telling them to look and theyíre terrified to stand up for themselves. Television forced this onto the game. That was never ever a penalty kick.
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