Author Topic: The VAR thread  (Read 57930 times)

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dave26

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1050 on: Wed 26 Jan 2022 18:47 »
Why is it that when VAR recommends a on field review it is obvious that the referee will reverse his own decision why can they not think of it logically - a on field review should be with the mind set that VAR is showing the referee the evidence of what has happened the referee should then base his decision on that evidence if referees did it with that mindset I guarantee the ratio of VAR decisions would be more accurate because they wouldn’t feel obligated or under pressure to change their minds
« Last Edit: Fri 28 Jan 2022 04:59 by dave26 »
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Ref Fan

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1051 on: Wed 26 Jan 2022 20:17 »
Why is it that when VAR recommends a on field review it is obvious that the referee will reverse his own decision why can they not think of it logically - a on field review should be with the mind set that VAR is showing the referee the evidence of what has happened the referee should then base his decision on that evidence if referees did it with that mindset I guarantee the ratio of VAR decisions would be more accurate

I do wonder what the mindset of referees is when VAR recommends an OFR.  Just re-reading what Dermot Gallagher said in relation to the Jota penalty.  Having stated it wasn't a penalty, the write up online of Dermot's comments finishes up with this: -

"In the eyes of the VAR, it was a clear and obvious error, so it's his prerogative to send him to the screen. "The referee then goes to the screen with a blank canvas and he decided to go with the VAR"

Is it really a 'blank canvas' when the referee has effectively been told he's made a clear and obvious error?  If Friend had stuck with his initial decision (as he should have done), he's really telling an experienced FIFA referee in this instance 'you've looked at this 6 or 6 times from various angles and you're wrong. That's never a penalty.' So what advice/instructions has PGMOL given to referees on this? 

Readingfan

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1052 on: Fri 28 Jan 2022 04:26 »
It might be a blank canvass in that the referee can still theoretically give whatever decision they want but I'd agree with Ref Fan that psychologically they must be much more inclined to change their mind.

I always think the TV process is much better set up for the VAR. They have the chance to watch an incident multiple times from different angles at various speeds. They nearly always have/take more time than a referee will at the monitor. They are sat in the comfort of a studio with tech support. The referee, in contrast, is suddenly stood at a pitchside monitor, with players and coaches probably hassling them, and knowing there's a time pressure to get on with it.

As Ref Fan says, there must be some element of wondering if a FIFA referee can really be that wrong. I remember there was the last minute red card in West Ham V Fulham last season with Mike Dean refereeing which was overturned on appeal. Mike Dean didn't seem fully convinced at the monitor but i remember the Sky commentators saying that VAR Lee Mason was telling him that he could see a clenched fist had been used. I can't remember if this was an at all accurate description but you can perhaps understand why a referee would give the benefit of any doubt to a VAR who's spent the whole match watching TV replays and has had ample time to view the footage as they wish.

I think the clear and obvious dimension probably shifts when a referee is sent to the monitor - whereas initially it had to be clear and obvious the initial decision was wrong for VAR to intervene, I think at the monitor it probably has to be clear and obvious that the VAR is wrong for the referee not to go with them.
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Readingfan

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1053 on: Fri 04 Feb 2022 23:39 »
The new semi-automated offside VAR system is being used at Club World Cup - Chelsea will play a couple of games using it next week.

It is meant to give quicker decisions. It could be used in World Cup and seems aim is to start using it in Premier League from start of 2023/24.

Has anyone seen any games from Club World Cup or elsewhere using the system? Does the delayed flag process from assistants still work the same as information is given to VAR?

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/fifa-club-world-cup/story/4585586/robot-var-offside-disallows-first-goal-at-fifa-club-world-cup

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Readingfan

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1055 on: Fri 18 Feb 2022 19:09 »
Reports today that initial discussions have been held about introducing a light VAR version to Championship and WSL in a few seasons. It would use fewer cameras than competitions like Premier League and Champions League and wouldn't have the offside lines. I presume clear cut offsides that could be judged from the cameras would still be given?

ajb95

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1056 on: Sun 06 Mar 2022 21:14 »
Something which hasn’t got a mention on here and I’m sure our resident Norwich fans will detail more but a clear penalty not given to Norwich v Brentford for a foul on Brandon Williams. Not sure how Taylor missed it but not sure who the var was and why they didn’t intervene

carrowman

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1057 on: Sun 06 Mar 2022 21:39 »
Sorry I can't comment on it, as I was up the other end, and have seen no replays. Wasn't on Match of the Day so couldn't have been too bad!.

Norwich's disallowed goal is an interesting one, as yet no official pictures with lines have been shown. One still picture shows Pukki offside when he touches ! the ball, one still picture not in line shows he may have been onside when the cross was taken.

I believe John Brooks was on VAR, not sure he has done that many games, but had 5 major reviews which took a long time. Afraid Norwich are so poor and are in free fall to thankfully the VAR free championship, that when Brentford's 4th went in, me and a few thousand others left and I was 200 yards outside the ground before it was disallowed.

I await Dermot's verdict tomorrow but I think the correct decisions were got to in the end.

jacksamuel21

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1058 on: Tue 08 Mar 2022 14:58 »
Something which hasn’t got a mention on here and I’m sure our resident Norwich fans will detail more but a clear penalty not given to Norwich v Brentford for a foul on Brandon Williams. Not sure how Taylor missed it but not sure who the var was and why they didn’t intervene

John Brooks I think. Not seen it myself so cannot comment

SimP

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1059 on: Sun 20 Mar 2022 16:57 »
2 incidents over the last 2 days highlight how poorly video technology is used in football compared to rugby.

Everton v Newcastle: Craig Pawson gives a yellow card for a foul by Allan on Saint Maximin. He's asked to check the screen by the VAR man. Result: Decision overturned from yellow to red.
Ireland v Scotland: Wayne Barnes wants to look at the process leading to a Scotland try. He asks the TMO to re-run the process leading up to the try. Result: Original on-field decision upheld.

For me, in rugby, the on-field ref was in charge of the process & used the evidence that he may have missed, but he was still strong enough to explain why he was backing his original decision & why he had no need to change. This seems to be the basis for rugby refs using TMO. On the other hand, Pawson went to the monitor & you felt that he was going to change his mind regardless. I don't recall a VAR incident where an on-field ref has stuck to his original decision despite the evidence. In football, the process is led by the VAR men in Stockley Park & the on-field refs feel compelled to reverse their original decision despite the evidence. It's like they have to follow the feedback of the VAR men.

This is ridiculous as the whole point of VAR is to correct "obvious" mistakes & for the on-field ref to lead the process, not follow it.

In rugby. the TMO men are not existing on-field refs so there is a clear demarcation between the TMO's & on-field refs, but in football, you have refs who can be VAR men for one game & then 3 days later, they are on-field refs & could ref the same team that they were VAR a few days before. There is clear possibility of refs being confused between the two roles & this could affect their decision-making.

It's clear to me that we can't have on-field refs being VAR refs & so we need a whole team of specialist VAR men who are retired as this is now a specialist role. Surely, there are enough ex-refs who would appreciate their experiences & services being utilised in this capacity.

Like it or not, VAR is here to stay, but the process & selection process of VAR men is a shambles & needs to change.
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RCG

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1060 on: Sun 20 Mar 2022 18:32 »
SimP I agree with your premise but actually a lot of TMO appointments this season havs been existing referees but you are right, it is referee led. Barnes is one of the worlds best in explaining what he thought he saw and then using technology appropriately.
On 2 occasions TMO suggested a review and on both Barnes went with what he had seen in field, with no loss of standing to either party.
Similarly Peyper pleased me that he used technology to see how Jack Nowell had ended up being under the jumper. Whilst I wasnt convinced it was an England penalty what it did show was it was definitely not a YC or worse a RC.

Readingfan

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1061 on: Thu 21 Apr 2022 10:59 »
Scotland are set to introduce VAR in the top division next season - 41 of the 42 teams across the SPFL divisions voted in favour.

It seems they are planning to introduce it midway through the season in December, after the World Cup, which I'm sure will cause some controversy.

Ref Watcher

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1062 on: Thu 21 Apr 2022 11:24 »
Scotland are set to introduce VAR in the top division next season - 41 of the 42 teams across the SPFL divisions voted in favour.

It seems they are planning to introduce it midway through the season in December, after the World Cup, which I'm sure will cause some controversy.
VAR or the World Cup?  ;)
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bmb

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