Author Topic: The VAR thread  (Read 40247 times)

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DublinRef

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1035 on: Fri 13 Aug 2021 11:43 »
While I think Oliver and Taylor come across well, Riley's management style seems to be a bit weak. The policy seems to be if there is enough people complaining then we will change it. While I think it is good to have an open approach and take in views from all areas of the game ultimately the PGMOL are supposed to be refereeing experts yet the approach to VAR seemed to be start off with minimum intervention and then see how people like it. The approach should have been set out with a clear philosophy and reasoning, to me it seems rather muddled and reactive.

While we might not agree with everything they do, the stronger management style of the likes of Rosetti and Collina is surely more desirable. If I was Mike Riley I would try and copy what happened at the EURO as closely as possible. To be fair, that is probably easier when you are dealing with the likes of Cakir rather than Jon Moss.
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Jake the Peg

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1036 on: Sun 22 Aug 2021 16:28 »
Let me say first of all that I'm a Newcastle fan so bear that in mind because my natural bias may be causing me a problem here. 

What I want to know is how referees and VAR officials interpret "clear and obvious".  There was an incident in the Villa v Newcastle match yesterday where Villa were awarded a penalty for handball.  The incident was not seen by the referee or either of his assistants.  It was not seen by any of the Villa players, none of whom appealed and all of whom simply carried on playing.  David Coote was then informed by Jarred Gillett that he should look at the monitor on the side of the pitch.  He decided that the defender (Lascelles) had his arm in an unnatural position when the ball hit it from about 4 feet away.  Lascelles had actually put his foot up to stop the header.  I have tried this morning to kick my foot to shoulder height whilst keeping my arms by my side and it is actually impossible!!

So can someone who is a referee explain to me why Gillett got involved when there was nothing clear and obvious about the incident and no one on the pitch thought there was anything wrong with what Lascelles had done - including Mings who headed the ball against his arm.

 
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bmb

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1037 on: Sun 22 Aug 2021 21:03 »
I've not seen but here is an article explaining what is and isn't handball

and an even better explanation from Kyros Vassaras! Although it is from Romanian TV he is speaking English.

https://youtu.be/JIfaMa3uBMo

If it fell into any he mentions as being a foul then VAR could intervene if they believe a penalty should have been awarded
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Acme Thunderer

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1038 on: Mon 23 Aug 2021 08:36 »
Hypothetical but may not have ended up that way. Leeds v Everton, Leeds shout for a penalty for a 'foul' on Bamford in the last move of the game. Darren England waves it away (correctly imo) and immediately blows for time. VAR look at the incident and agree with Darren. But what if VAR hadn't agreed with him? Presumably, although the game had ended, Darren would have needed to restart it to allow the penalty to be taken. Is that correct? Ty!

Hadrian

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1039 on: Mon 23 Aug 2021 09:28 »
Hypothetical but may not have ended up that way. Leeds v Everton, Leeds shout for a penalty for a 'foul' on Bamford in the last move of the game. Darren England waves it away (correctly imo) and immediately blows for time. VAR look at the incident and agree with Darren. But what if VAR hadn't agreed with him? Presumably, although the game had ended, Darren would have needed to restart it to allow the penalty to be taken. Is that correct? Ty!

Yes indeed. See Brighton v Man Utd last season as an example, where Chris Kavanagh awarded a penalty to Man Utd after the final whistle for a handball just before it, after receiving VAR advice.
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Jake the Peg

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1040 on: Mon 23 Aug 2021 12:57 »
I've not seen but here is an article explaining what is and isn't handball

and an even better explanation from Kyros Vassaras! Although it is from Romanian TV he is speaking English.

https://youtu.be/JIfaMa3uBMo

If it fell into any he mentions as being a foul then VAR could intervene if they believe a penalty should have been awarded

Thanks very much for that which is very interesting.  It's doesn't address the issue of "clear and obvious".  How can something be clear and obvious if no one in the ground has seen it.  To me this appears a much more nit picking use of VAR than we saw in the Euros.

Microscopist

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1041 on: Sun 23 Jan 2022 17:20 »
On occasion I have heard Mark Halsey refer to a "VAR Match Commander", he did so last year in the context of the non-referral of the non-penalty award when Alex McCrthy brought down Phil Foden.  I'm not aware of this "VAR Match Commander" post and its role.  Can anyone enlighten me?

bmb

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1042 on: Sun 23 Jan 2022 18:12 »
On occasion I have heard Mark Halsey refer to a "VAR Match Commander", he did so last year in the context of the non-referral of the non-penalty award when Alex McCrthy brought down Phil Foden.  I'm not aware of this "VAR Match Commander" post and its role.  Can anyone enlighten me?

Would that be the role of Neil Swarbrick? I believe he is always in and around Stockley Park when it's in use to ensure all is working smoothly in technical terms.
HajrŠ LilŠk. Csak a Kispest. HajrŠ Magyarok! HajrŠ jŠtťkvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel

Microscopist

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1043 on: Sun 23 Jan 2022 19:47 »
Don't think it was Neil Swarbrick, apparently the person was not, nor had been a referee.  There is something about it that doesn't ring true and I was just wondering if anyone could shed some light over whether such a role exists. 

bmb

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1044 on: Sun 23 Jan 2022 20:45 »
Don't think it was Neil Swarbrick, apparently the person was not, nor had been a referee.  There is something about it that doesn't ring true and I was just wondering if anyone could shed some light over whether such a role exists. 

With our mobile units in Hungary we have a club official allocated who ensures the van is in the right place, all the right cables have been attached correctly, does the sound and video tests and relays any problems such as sound failure etc to the clubs and on field match officials. Could there be a similar role at Stockley Park or in the ground liaising with Stockley Park (without the physical cables needing to be attached and checked of course)?
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Ivanhoe

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1045 on: Mon 24 Jan 2022 10:54 »
A lot of videos and comments on twitter etc that the Adama Traore goal disallowed at Brentford on Saturday was because VAR used the wrong still of the Neves pass and that Traore was well onside.

ajb95

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1046 on: Mon 24 Jan 2022 11:05 »
If the current crop of SG1referees cannot use this technology then we should get rid and go back to a system that has worked for 150 odd years of association football. Our refs are losing al trust with the footballing world

bmb

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1047 on: Mon 24 Jan 2022 16:52 »
Don't think it was Neil Swarbrick, apparently the person was not, nor had been a referee.  There is something about it that doesn't ring true and I was just wondering if anyone could shed some light over whether such a role exists. 

With our mobile units in Hungary we have a club official allocated who ensures the van is in the right place, all the right cables have been attached correctly, does the sound and video tests and relays any problems such as sound failure etc to the clubs and on field match officials. Could there be a similar role at Stockley Park or in the ground liaising with Stockley Park (without the physical cables needing to be attached and checked of course)?

I have done some digging as this intrigued me!  It appears to be a term unique to the PL. There are 3 VAR match commanders who I believe are Adam Carter, Neil Swarbrick & Mike Mullarkey. Their role is to oversee the processes & ensure protocol is followed etc. They are allowed to be in and about at Stockley Park but not allowed to be involved in any decision making. Remember that incident when Neil Swarbrick & Stuart Attwell had words at one game a year or so ago? Can't remember the game off hand.

In Germany they use the term VAR project manager for what I think is the same role. Hellmut Krug was sacked in Germany in 2017 after an allegation he had interfered with 2 penalty decisions. He and the VAR team denied he had any influence but he was sacked anyway. https://www.dw.com/en/dfb-part-ways-with-var-project-manager-hellmut-krug/a-41261100

In terms of the responses I received from those in non UK refereeing:

IFAB - it is not a phrase they are familiar with.
UEFA - Neither UEFA nor FIFA have heard of this position but it could mean a VAR manager, which is a recognised role. Neither UEFA nor FIFA allow the VAR manager to be online with the VAR team or present in the VOR. They are not allowed to communicate with the VAR team at all unless there is a technical issue.
I also asked FIFA level refs from Hungary, Romania, Albania, Serbia, Slovakia & Russia - none have heard the term VAR match commander but all mentioned that there is a VAR manager present at Nyon, who ensures everything is working correctly and assists if there is a problem eg the comms going down but otherwise has no communication with the team during a match.

My conclusion is that the VAR match commander is just a fancy term for the VAR manager role. If they are however communicating with the VAR team during a match either by being online with the team or being in the VOR then they are breaching FIFA/UEFA guidelines and rules and should be removed immediately. They should also be sacked as was done in Germany even though it was not proven. It raises an integrity issue. Whether this occurs or not I do not know and I am not suggesting that it does.
« Last Edit: Mon 24 Jan 2022 20:09 by bmb »
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Readingfan

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1048 on: Tue 25 Jan 2022 13:29 »
Surely all the VARs should be aware of required protocols and processes without needing someone to warn them if they're not following them.

Who've they got doing VAR? Boris?
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rustyref

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Re: The VAR thread
« Reply #1049 on: Tue 25 Jan 2022 14:31 »
Who've they got doing VAR? Boris?

Of course not, he's too busy partying ... 😂
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