Author Topic: Stuart Attwell, Burnley v Liverpool (Read 696 times)

Acme Thunderer · « **on:** Fri 07 Dec 2018 09:18 »

A little surprised that there has been no comment (so far) on the tackle which resulted in Joe Gomez breaking his leg, particularly as the oft-mentioned Stuart Attwell was overseeing proceedings.

For what it is worth, I agree with Sean Dyce that it was a 'fantastic tackle' by Ben Mee, notwithstanding the results of it. It seemed to me to be a hard but fair challenge. However, it has to be assumed (I think) that Mee made contact with Gomez' leg (in other words the break did not result from an awkward fall or similar), so in this day and age, should Attwell have taken action, including awarding Liverpool a penalty? Klopp said that he was already asking 4O Mike Dean to get action taken on the Burnley tackles before someone got hurt. I don't know on that one but should action have been taken on this particular tackle? Thoughts? Thank you.

Ref Watcher · « **Reply #1 on:** Fri 07 Dec 2018 09:36 »

I am with Jürgen Klopp on this one. Although Mee won the ball he was always going to make significant contact with Gomez with his other leg due to the angle of his approach. Given the speed of the challenge it was reckless and worthy of a yellow card.

Vlad Vladadze · « **Reply #2 on:** Fri 07 Dec 2018 11:36 »

I can say how is it seen in all competitions in Europe, FIFA, etc.

If the tackler hits the ball but also makes a trailing-leg contact with an opponent's leg from behind, the tackle must be deemed as at least reckless. In case of detecting a serious injury by the referee, the player committing a foul must be sent off.

So, YC would have been acceptable (RC preferable) and it's a huge mistake to consider the tackle as fair.

Ashington46 · « **Reply #3 on:** Fri 07 Dec 2018 11:53 »

I was at the game and right behind the AR who had a good view of the tackle. It was a fair tackle and the injury was sustained with tangle of legs after the tackle.
Mee was first to the ball and was on his feet, as as Gomez, so are we going to argue that you should not try to win a ball when you know that you are going to win it, as was the case.

I notice that Klopp didn't mention the two footed tackle on Gudmundsson by Firminho about five minutes after he had come onto the field. He jumped in from a few feet away, studs showing and hit Gudmundsson square on right in front of the Liverpool dug out.

I am afraid that the way the modern game is going we are going to be in a situation where every bit of physical contact is penalised in one way or another. I played and refereed at semi-professional level in this country and also in Germany and have the scars to prove it after participating in senior football for over 50 years. The Germans never enjoyed you putting in a good tackle and I am going back to the late 60s and 70s!

Quite frankly, the way that the game is going now, with lots of players diving, falling over with the slightest contact, feigning injury, holding their face when an arm has caught them in the chest etc., etc., it is hardly worth spending my money watching it.
It is becoming a very sterile game, however, it seems to be what the modern fan wants.

LateTackle · « **Reply #4 on:** Fri 07 Dec 2018 12:11 »

I listened to Dermot Gallagher's comments on Ref Watch yesterday and he had it spot on. It was, in his opinion, an entirely fair tackle and no blame attached to the Burnley player whatsoever. The day we ban fair tackles from the game we may as well all give up on the game altogether.

I believe Klopp is probably the biggest whinger of any Premier Manager, and of course only ever sees one side of the game, as mentioned by Ashington on the Firminho challenge. Klopp has no self-awareness at all, as his behaviour last weekend showed. He should have been given a spell in the stands for that.

Vlad Vladadze · « **Reply #5 on:** Fri 07 Dec 2018 12:50 »

Like it or not, but trailing leg tackles are very dangerous (it's only one example of many) and imo UEFA is right in banning such tackles.

ajb95 · « **Reply #6 on:** Fri 07 Dec 2018 16:07 »

But the injury wasn’t caused by the tackle - it was caused by Gomez falling and then falling over the barrier!
Shameful to see managers wanting to ban good tackles but won’t do or say anything about their players diving, play acting and general cheating antics!

bmb · « **Reply #7 on:** Fri 07 Dec 2018 20:21 »

Quote from: Vlad Vladadze on Fri 07 Dec 2018 12:50

Like it or not, but trailing leg tackles are very dangerous (it's only one example of many) and imo UEFA is right in banning such tackles.

We've always had a slightly more physical game here in the UK than on the mainland & we don't want tackling outlawed. Shame the lad broke his leg but the tackle should be judged on its merit not the outcome & it was a perfectly acceptable tackle here. Always easy to view it slightly differently because a nasty injury has occured, that's human nature. One of my son's Uncle's suffered an ultimately career ending double leg break 6 years ago in a League 1 match, absolutely nothing wrong with the tackle at all, just one of those things. I remember the lad who tackled him, Kennedy I think his name is, was absolutely distraught when he arrived at the hospital after the game, but there was no blame on him. I'm pretty sure TVOS was at the game. Carl Boyeson was ref! Our current club captain was booked that day!

Vlad Vladadze · « **Reply #8 on:** Fri 07 Dec 2018 20:36 »

Quote from: bmb on Fri 07 Dec 2018 20:21

Quote from: Vlad Vladadze on Fri 07 Dec 2018 12:50
Like it or not, but trailing leg tackles are very dangerous (it's only one example of many) and imo UEFA is right in banning such tackles.

We've always had a slightly more physical game here in the UK than on the mainland & we don't want tackling outlawed. Shame the lad broke his leg but the tackle should be judged on its merit not the outcome & it was a perfectly acceptable tackle here. Always easy to view it slightly differently because a nasty injury has occured, that's human nature. One of my son's Uncle's suffered an ultimately career ending double leg break 6 years ago in a League 1 match, absolutely nothing wrong with the tackle at all, just one of those things. I remember the lad who tackled him, Kennedy I think his name is, was absolutely distraught when he arrived at the hospital after the game, but there was no blame on him. I'm pretty sure TVOS was at the game. Carl Boyeson was ref! Our current club captain was booked that day!

Do you remember, bmb, I sent you some clips from UEFA refereeing network. You know that trailing leg tackle would have been yellow-carded here, no matter the result.

RCG · « **Reply #9 on:** Fri 07 Dec 2018 20:50 »

But it was not the trailing leg that made contact. Gomez leg ended up between Mee's legs and it was the twist in the fall that caused the damage. The tacklers back leg was tucked behind him with the knee the furthest point forward. It was a great tackle with an unfortunate outcome

bmb · « **Reply #10 on:** Fri 07 Dec 2018 21:08 »

Quote from: Vlad Vladadze on Fri 07 Dec 2018 20:36

Quote from: bmb on Fri 07 Dec 2018 20:21
Quote from: Vlad Vladadze on Fri 07 Dec 2018 12:50
Like it or not, but trailing leg tackles are very dangerous (it's only one example of many) and imo UEFA is right in banning such tackles.

We've always had a slightly more physical game here in the UK than on the mainland & we don't want tackling outlawed. Shame the lad broke his leg but the tackle should be judged on its merit not the outcome & it was a perfectly acceptable tackle here. Always easy to view it slightly differently because a nasty injury has occured, that's human nature. One of my son's Uncle's suffered an ultimately career ending double leg break 6 years ago in a League 1 match, absolutely nothing wrong with the tackle at all, just one of those things. I remember the lad who tackled him, Kennedy I think his name is, was absolutely distraught when he arrived at the hospital after the game, but there was no blame on him. I'm pretty sure TVOS was at the game. Carl Boyeson was ref! Our current club captain was booked that day!

Do you remember, bmb, I sent you some clips from UEFA refereeing network. You know that trailing leg tackle would have been yellow-carded here, no matter the result.

I'm sure it would be one I'd disagree with then!

As RCG has said though, it wasn't the trailing leg that caught the lad so imo it's irrelevant.

Vlad Vladadze · « **Reply #11 on:** Fri 07 Dec 2018 21:11 »

It's simply reckless in UEFA. You have to make tackle using the leg closer to an opponent in order to avoid the situation when an opponent's leg is stuck between tackler's legs, if you know what I mean.

Ashington46 · « **Reply #12 on:** Fri 07 Dec 2018 22:06 »

So the fact that a defender can make a tackle for a ball he knew he could win, which he did, should be penalised because, although he was stood up when he won the ball, the opponent then got involved in a tangle of legs and unfortunately got injured does not matter in football any more because UEFA FIFA decree that the ball is not important any more.

If this is the case, then we are getting nearer and nearer to an ultra-sterilised game which will not be worth watching because tackling and physical contact will all be penalised one way or another. This is not the game that has existed and survived since the 19th century without too much interference until the last 30 years. Very sad state of affairs, however, it appeals to modern fans who do not think that anything physical is good for the game.

Interesting that, in the photo that is shown, the ball is on its way out of play for a throw in, perhaps Gomez should have realised that he was not going to win the ball and should have stopped his run.
Oh, I forgot that the idea is that UEFA and FIFA want more goals so everything should go in favour of the attacker and we shouldn't tackle them.

Vlad Vladadze · « **Reply #13 on:** Fri 07 Dec 2018 23:21 »

Nope, you should make tackle in the way that is not dangerous to an opponent, using the leg being closer to an opponent. And the only reason behind it is the safety of the players.

Ashington46 · « **Reply #14 on:** Fri 07 Dec 2018 23:43 »

So, a perfect tackle then which did not endanger an opponent, although he ended up with a broken leg. I saw it live and there was nothing dangerous about it at all as was confirmed buy the Assistant referee, who was nearer than I was, and the referee who took no further action.
Accidents happen in a physical game, believe me, I have been on both sides of the fence when playing over 1000 games at a decent level.
So we are trying to get rid of contact, heading, tackling and keep changing the offside interpretation in order to do what? I do wonder!!

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Author Topic: Stuart Attwell, Burnley v Liverpool (Read 696 times)

Acme Thunderer

Stuart Attwell, Burnley v Liverpool

Ref Watcher

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Vlad Vladadze

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Ashington46

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LateTackle

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ajb95

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bmb

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RCG

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bmb

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Ashington46

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