Author Topic: Stephen Martin, Reading v Hull  (Read 1591 times)

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Acme Thunderer

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Stephen Martin, Reading v Hull
« on: Sun 05 Dec 2021 08:46 »
Just caught the TV highlights of this game. Two Reading penalty claims turned down by Stephen Martin, both of which looked definite penalties. A player brought down in the penalty area and a handball when the hand was raised. I couldn't see why either could have been turned down, particularly the first incident. Any thoughts?   

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Mikael W

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Re: Stephen Martin, Reading v Hull
« Reply #1 on: Sun 05 Dec 2021 09:09 »
youtu.be/l0y3Z8p4mH4?t=256 -> defender puts his leg out to prevent the attacker executing a shot, penalty to be given

youtu.be/l0y3Z8p4mH4?t=447 -> hmmm, a very tricky decision, I had to watch this a few times inc. slow motion to be sure what happened; attacker gets the first touch and then when trying to run forward his left leg touches the back of his opponent's leg, causing him to stumble; penalty call would be everything but a mistake, however given that the defender had, despite the attacker's touch, probably won the position and was in a better place to take possession of the ball, actually I prefer play on; I guess most people didn't look the deeply though and a penalty would be the more expected / less controversial call

youtu.be/l0y3Z8p4mH4?t=531 -> very clear penalty in my opinion, arm way out from the body and up in the air, deflecting the ball away; Martin should start dynamically sprinting after the long ball into the penalty area, he doesn't, and is simply too far away to make a sound decision; here in England they are so passive, but the fourth official should be able to help his team leader here, he would have a great angle to help with this call(!!); clear mistake

So not the best afternoon for Stephen Martin based on these scenes :/.
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nemesis

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Re: Stephen Martin, Reading v Hull
« Reply #2 on: Sun 05 Dec 2021 10:33 »
youtu.be/l0y3Z8p4mH4?t=256 -> defender puts his leg out to prevent the attacker executing a shot, penalty to be given

youtu.be/l0y3Z8p4mH4?t=447 -> hmmm, a very tricky decision, I had to watch this a few times inc. slow motion to be sure what happened; attacker gets the first touch and then when trying to run forward his left leg touches the back of his opponent's leg, causing him to stumble; penalty call would be everything but a mistake, however given that the defender had, despite the attacker's touch, probably won the position and was in a better place to take possession of the ball, actually I prefer play on; I guess most people didn't look the deeply though and a penalty would be the more expected / less controversial call

youtu.be/l0y3Z8p4mH4?t=531 -> very clear penalty in my opinion, arm way out from the body and up in the air, deflecting the ball away; Martin should start dynamically sprinting after the long ball into the penalty area, he doesn't, and is simply too far away to make a sound decision; here in England they are so passive, but the fourth official should be able to help his team leader here, he would have a great angle to help with this call(!!); clear mistake

So not the best afternoon for Stephen Martin based on these scenes :/.

Good analysis.

Only criticism is that just because it was poor doesn't necessarily prevent it from being his best afternoon.
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James365

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Re: Stephen Martin, Reading v Hull
« Reply #3 on: Sun 05 Dec 2021 15:12 »
There are 3 penalty decisions in the footage

- Andy Carroll goes down under a challenge. No penalty as very minimal contact and Carroll exaggerated the fall.  Good positioning and good call this by Martin.

- Second one the Reading number 10 goes into the box and the defender pulls out of the challenge hardly anything with contact and and attacker goes over very easily.  For me this is no penalty and also play on. Good acceleration and movement to get a good positioning to see

- The defenders arm is raised and in an unnatural position and this should probably be a penalty.

All in all, three big decisions. Two imho are correct don’t think you can point the finger on the referee and say that he’s had a bad afternoon

TheThingFromLewes

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Re: Stephen Martin, Reading v Hull
« Reply #4 on: Sun 05 Dec 2021 19:07 »
Stephen Martin is one of the poorest officials in SG2 and has been for a while.

I can’t recall a performance recently that has justified his place in this grouping of referees.
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James365

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Re: Stephen Martin, Reading v Hull
« Reply #5 on: Sun 05 Dec 2021 22:45 »
He is at a level I’d love to be at.  Clearly better than us.  No one is perfect and we can never get anything right.

If you think he is poor then that’s your view. 

Have you watched a lot of his games recently to have that view?

TheThingFromLewes

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Re: Stephen Martin, Reading v Hull
« Reply #6 on: Sun 05 Dec 2021 22:49 »
He is at a level I’d love to be at.  Clearly better than us.  No one is perfect and we can never get anything right.

If you think he is poor then that’s your view. 

Have you watched a lot of his games recently to have that view?

I have yes…. and over many seasons prior to that.

I assume you mean “everything” right rather than “anything” right?


James365

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Re: Stephen Martin, Reading v Hull
« Reply #7 on: Sun 05 Dec 2021 23:00 »
Exactly.  Everything.  See, we all make mistakes   Doesn’t mean I am poor at writing just like it doesn’t make Martin poor at refereeing. But as you have seen so many of his matches then I must bow to your knowledge of a night performing match official yourself

Whistleblower

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Re: Stephen Martin, Reading v Hull
« Reply #8 on: Mon 06 Dec 2021 08:49 »
I have seen Stephen Martin referee live twice. On each occasion he was OK, nothing dreadful but nothing particularly commendable either. To my amateur way of assessing referees, I cannot see how he is any better than many of the performers on Leagues 1 and 2 and he is certainly a long, long way off the SG1 referees.

The most distinctive feature of his performance is his idiosyncratic run; it's a sort of prance of a vaguely equine nature.

adcr85

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Re: Stephen Martin, Reading v Hull
« Reply #9 on: Mon 06 Dec 2021 09:28 »
This is why I love this forum, and shows what a hard life our more highly qualified and more watched peers have. We've all been prompted to look at 3 clips, with replays, and slow motion - and we can't agree! I don't watch enough full football league matches to have opinions on individual referees so i will just talk about my interpretations on the decisions.

1 - No penalty, light contact and striker already going down
2 - i would go penalty - striker gets there first, pushes the ball away from defender who caomes in with the wrong leg, and contact high on leg - striker is 'looking for it' but imho he finds it.
3 - Ok we might all agree on this one - penalty, although his hand probably isn't quite as high as you might think when it touches the ball, but keeps moving up after contact with the ball. but even still arm straight out is also unnatural

TVOS

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Re: Stephen Martin, Reading v Hull
« Reply #10 on: Mon 06 Dec 2021 10:32 »
I have seen Stephen Martin referee live twice. On each occasion he was OK, nothing dreadful but nothing particularly commendable either. To my amateur way of assessing referees, I cannot see how he is any better than many of the performers on Leagues 1 and 2 and he is certainly a long, long way off the SG1 referees.

The most distinctive feature of his performance is his idiosyncratic run; it's a sort of prance of a vaguely equine nature.

I've commented on this several times before, but I think a lot of SG2 are there because they were able to relinquish their other careers and focus on refereeing, rather than because they were the best available.

It's no coincidence that we have seen the likes of Andy Madley, Jeremy Simpson, Tim Robinson, Matt Donohue, Michael Salisbury and Josh Smith (plus any others I've missed) all move from teaching to full-time refereeing.

Edit: Add Tony Harrington to that list
« Last Edit: Mon 06 Dec 2021 18:46 by TVOS »

James365

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Re: Stephen Martin, Reading v Hull
« Reply #11 on: Mon 06 Dec 2021 13:26 »
Ah right, so to be a SG2 referee its about your availability to commit to full time and not the fact that they are good at what they do??

I am sure that the powers that be look at every aspect of what they can offer as a referee. Like in any other job, you have to be the best candidate and you have to be the one that firstly, have the ability, then what do you bring to the company in a positive way and then your availability will be lower down.

There will always be a standings in order of who is the strongest to weakest referee on any list. Everyone can't be top of the merit table. Doesn't mean the person in last place is a bad referee.

nemesis

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Re: Stephen Martin, Reading v Hull
« Reply #12 on: Mon 06 Dec 2021 13:36 »
Ah right, so to be a SG2 referee its about your availability to commit to full time and not the fact that they are good at what they do??

I am sure that the powers that be look at every aspect of what they can offer as a referee. Like in any other job, you have to be the best candidate and you have to be the one that firstly, have the ability, then what do you bring to the company in a positive way and then your availability will be lower down.

There will always be a standings in order of who is the strongest to weakest referee on any list. Everyone can't be top of the merit table. Doesn't mean the person in last place is a bad referee.

A quick glance at some of our "top" politicians should be enough to blow that idealist notion out of the water !
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TVOS

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Re: Stephen Martin, Reading v Hull
« Reply #13 on: Mon 06 Dec 2021 16:18 »
Ah right, so to be a SG2 referee its about your availability to commit to full time and not the fact that they are good at what they do??

I am sure that the powers that be look at every aspect of what they can offer as a referee. Like in any other job, you have to be the best candidate and you have to be the one that firstly, have the ability, then what do you bring to the company in a positive way and then your availability will be lower down.

There will always be a standings in order of who is the strongest to weakest referee on any list. Everyone can't be top of the merit table. Doesn't mean the person in last place is a bad referee.

There are a number of referees - Charles Breakspear to name one and Dean Whitestone for a while - who regularly officiated in the Championship before SG2 was formed, but who didn't take up positions in the new group to start with. It was widely reported by those with knowledge of such things that Dean's job with The Met prevented him taking up SG2 at that time.

I can't speak for Breakspear, but to go from regular Championship appointments to not joining SG2 suggests (which doesn't mean for definite, in case you're wondering) that he was unable or unwilling to move to full-time status. He's also a damned sight better referee than the likes of Ward and Simpson, as well, in my opinion.

All these points have been debated on here long before you joined us and points have been made from people with more insider knowledge than the rest of us.

The majority of your post is irrelevant to the point being made, to be honest.
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rustyref

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Re: Stephen Martin, Reading v Hull
« Reply #14 on: Mon 06 Dec 2021 17:15 »
Ah right, so to be a SG2 referee its about your availability to commit to full time and not the fact that they are good at what they do??

I am sure that the powers that be look at every aspect of what they can offer as a referee. Like in any other job, you have to be the best candidate and you have to be the one that firstly, have the ability, then what do you bring to the company in a positive way and then your availability will be lower down.

There will always be a standings in order of who is the strongest to weakest referee on any list. Everyone can't be top of the merit table. Doesn't mean the person in last place is a bad referee.

A quick glance at some of our "top" politicians should be enough to blow that idealist notion out of the water !

The last time I checked the general public didn't vote for which referees got promoted, so I'm not sure that analogy works. (edited to fix quote-hertsref)
« Last Edit: Mon 06 Dec 2021 20:21 by Hertsref123 »