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Author Topic: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford  (Read 2036 times)

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rustyref

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Re: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford
« Reply #30 on: Mon 22 Feb 2021 22:15 »
Oh for the days when teams weren't allowed to play in black or very dark colours eh?
Incidentally I think I recall a post indicating that "top level" referees are instructed by the competition which shirt to wear (The teams having been required to advise the competition of their intended colours)
When I was administrating a team our colours formed part of the confirmation email to the opposition and referee

I believe the PL do choose the colour, but how do they get it wrong so often? So many games in PL where a goalkeeper is in black and so are the officials, despite other choices being an option. Shouldn’t be hard to get it right!



Martin & team obviously had the purple shirts with them, so why not use them from the outset, as black was clearly never going to be great.

There are only four referee shirt colours, and sometimes it is just impossible to avoid a clash.  So it is best to clash with one of the keepers, and they can't ask the keeper to change as that affects sponsorship agreements.  I would also say as I always do, why does it matter that the referee clashes with a keeper, but that is just my view.

Of bigger concern are things like yesterday.  Arsenal vs Man City, rather plan play in their usual blue City play in white, including white sleeves that completely clashed with Arsenal.  That's a nightware for assistants, how can you judge offside when both teams are wearing the same coloured sleeves?
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Leggy

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Re: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford
« Reply #31 on: Tue 23 Feb 2021 07:54 »
Oh for the days when teams weren't allowed to play in black or very dark colours eh?
Incidentally I think I recall a post indicating that "top level" referees are instructed by the competition which shirt to wear (The teams having been required to advise the competition of their intended colours)
When I was administrating a team our colours formed part of the confirmation email to the opposition and referee

I believe the PL do choose the colour, but how do they get it wrong so often? So many games in PL where a goalkeeper is in black and so are the officials, despite other choices being an option. Shouldn’t be hard to get it right!



Martin & team obviously had the purple shirts with them, so why not use them from the outset, as black was clearly never going to be great.

There are only four referee shirt colours, and sometimes it is just impossible to avoid a clash.  So it is best to clash with one of the keepers, and they can't ask the keeper to change as that affects sponsorship agreements.  I would also say as I always do, why does it matter that the referee clashes with a keeper, but that is just my view.

Of bigger concern are things like yesterday.  Arsenal vs Man City, rather plan play in their usual blue City play in white, including white sleeves that completely clashed with Arsenal.  That's a nightware for assistants, how can you judge offside when both teams are wearing the same coloured sleeves?

"Nightware for assistants" - would that be the Lino's Pyjamas?   ;D ;D ;D
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PhiltheRef

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Re: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford
« Reply #32 on: Tue 23 Feb 2021 11:31 »
My Club (Altrincham) played in a Rainbow Shirt as part of the fight against homophobia
Very well it looked too, could hardly be thought to have any chance of clashing with anyone else (including Officials) and raised a lot of money for a great cause
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Ref Watcher

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Re: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford
« Reply #33 on: Tue 23 Feb 2021 12:19 »
Of bigger concern are things like yesterday.  Arsenal vs Man City, rather plan play in their usual blue City play in white, including white sleeves that completely clashed with Arsenal.  That's a nightware for assistants, how can you judge offside when both teams are wearing the same coloured sleeves?
I was at a League One game earlier this season between Peterborough United (blue shirts with white sleeves) and opponents whose identity escapes me but who were in all white shirts.  Both teams had some players in short-sleeved shirts and white undershirts.  The match officials took exception to this clash when the players appeared.  Peterborough changed to blue undershirts, which was entirely wrong in law and resulted in some Peterborough players having white sleeves and some blue; it was however better than everyone wearing white sleeves.

Whistleblower

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Re: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford
« Reply #34 on: Tue 23 Feb 2021 13:49 »
My Club (Altrincham) played in a Rainbow Shirt as part of the fight against homophobia
Very well it looked too, could hardly be thought to have any chance of clashing with anyone else (including Officials) and raised a lot of money for a great cause


Excellent. That is very good to hear PhiltheRef.  I entirely agree that a rainbow shirt is unlikely to clash with any other solid colour shirt.
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Whistleblower

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Re: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford
« Reply #35 on: Tue 23 Feb 2021 13:52 »
Of bigger concern are things like yesterday.  Arsenal vs Man City, rather plan play in their usual blue City play in white, including white sleeves that completely clashed with Arsenal.  That's a nightware for assistants, how can you judge offside when both teams are wearing the same coloured sleeves?
I was at a League One game earlier this season between Peterborough United (blue shirts with white sleeves) and opponents whose identity escapes me but who were in all white shirts.  Both teams had some players in short-sleeved shirts and white undershirts.  The match officials took exception to this clash when the players appeared.  Peterborough changed to blue undershirts, which was entirely wrong in law and resulted in some Peterborough players having white sleeves and some blue; it was however better than everyone wearing white sleeves.


Goodness knows it's hard enough at speed to detect offsides when the margins now are so tight so no part of one side's kit should be the same as the opposing side and that goes particularly for sleeves which are thin bands of colour at the best of times.

jad

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Re: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford
« Reply #36 on: Tue 23 Feb 2021 15:59 »
Those of us who are, so to speak, differently youthful will remember that for many years goalkeepers and match officials in most European countries all used to wear black.

Apropos of JCFC's post, I also seem to remember that John Gordon never made it to the 1978 World Cup finals, since the SFA had to withdraw his nomination when an indiscretion relating to a European tie came to light.
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JCFC

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Re: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford
« Reply #37 on: Tue 23 Feb 2021 16:34 »
John Gordon did go to the 1978 Finals in Argentina, refereeing a match in each of the first two rounds.

The spending spree on the AC Milan credit card came before a European tie in the latter part of that year.

jad

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Re: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford
« Reply #38 on: Tue 23 Feb 2021 17:02 »
I stand corrected.  Thank you. 

LateTackle

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Re: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford
« Reply #39 on: Tue 23 Feb 2021 17:50 »
Being a glutton for punishment, I watched the game on Sky live and remarked very early on that the referee's choice of shirt was ridiculous.  Coventry wore a special one-off kit for the game which was very dark blue so Martin wearing black was the worst possible choice.  The issue should have been sorted before kick-off, not at half time.  I am of the opinion that referees should always wear black unless there is a clash, and this was a case where it was down to common sense. 

Referees don't get to choose what colours they wear, it is all sorted out ahead of match day.  I would hazard a guess that there has been a communication breakdown and someone hasn't realised that Coventry were in the special one-off kit.  If that was the case the officiating team probably wouldn't have realised there was a problem until they were on the pitch.
I take your point entirely.  It was nowhere near the usual kit, but I presume it was approved and Brentford had decided to use their change strip.  However.....the issue should have been sorted before kick-off, not at half time.  Do they not have a pre-game meeting to prevent things like this happening? 


Beryl

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Re: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford
« Reply #40 on: Wed 24 Feb 2021 06:49 »
Being a glutton for punishment, I watched the game on Sky live and remarked very early on that the referee's choice of shirt was ridiculous.  Coventry wore a special one-off kit for the game which was very dark blue so Martin wearing black was the worst possible choice.  The issue should have been sorted before kick-off, not at half time.  I am of the opinion that referees should always wear black unless there is a clash, and this was a case where it was down to common sense. 

Referees don't get to choose what colours they wear, it is all sorted out ahead of match day.  I would hazard a guess that there has been a communication breakdown and someone hasn't realised that Coventry were in the special one-off kit.  If that was the case the officiating team probably wouldn't have realised there was a problem until they were on the pitch.
I take your point entirely.  It was nowhere near the usual kit, but I presume it was approved and Brentford had decided to use their change strip.  However.....the issue should have been sorted before kick-off, not at half time.  Do they not have a pre-game meeting to prevent things like this happening?


There is totally no excuse for a clash.   Leaving aside the communications, takes thirty seconds to
A- knock on teams door,  hi guys, just confirming what colours you are in
B- check with club rep, secretary, manager, anyone you know of note
C- prematch warm up...even if they have training gear on....” remind me of your strip”
D- upon equipment check
E- even as teams come out for ko, someone of the 4 officials, or 3, simply must click the clash
F- some teamlines have a box for, colours, if one says white, and one says red, you can 99% rest easy
If one says yellow and one says blue, it might be wise to check the blue

Even at pro level, things happen. Away team arrive but kit does not,   Kitman packed wrong kit,    Turns out kit clashes with home team so away team now wearing home teams away kit.  Kit stuck in traffic or accident


Yes some things not as they were due to Covid, but, a colour clash is avoidable by simply using common sense and being proactive.

« Last Edit: Wed 24 Feb 2021 06:55 by Beryl »
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Hadrian

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Re: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford
« Reply #41 on: Wed 24 Feb 2021 09:50 »
Oh for the days when teams weren't allowed to play in black or very dark colours eh?
Incidentally I think I recall a post indicating that "top level" referees are instructed by the competition which shirt to wear (The teams having been required to advise the competition of their intended colours)
When I was administrating a team our colours formed part of the confirmation email to the opposition and referee

I believe the PL do choose the colour, but how do they get it wrong so often? So many games in PL where a goalkeeper is in black and so are the officials, despite other choices being an option. Shouldn’t be hard to get it right!

Martin & team obviously had the purple shirts with them, so why not use them from the outset, as black was clearly never going to be great.

Mr Ellerly famously had to put on a teams training top in a game, as he only had black
Total guess it was Villa v someone.   If someone corrects that, great
Am sure there was logic to taking one kit, I just cannot work it out..

Leeds vs Newcastle, 1997. Newcastle had a navy blue away kit which clashed with the very similar referee kits at the time.

I believe they only wore it on one other occasion, at Sheffield Wednesday, when ironically Elleray was the referee again.  This time he was able to come prepared with the previous green referee kit.
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Beryl

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Re: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford
« Reply #42 on: Wed 24 Feb 2021 10:49 »
Oh for the days when teams weren't allowed to play in black or very dark colours eh?
Incidentally I think I recall a post indicating that "top level" referees are instructed by the competition which shirt to wear (The teams having been required to advise the competition of their intended colours)
When I was administrating a team our colours formed part of the confirmation email to the opposition and referee

I believe the PL do choose the colour, but how do they get it wrong so often? So many games in PL where a goalkeeper is in black and so are the officials, despite other choices being an option. Shouldn’t be hard to get it right!

Martin & team obviously had the purple shirts with them, so why not use them from the outset, as black was clearly never going to be great.

Mr Ellerly famously had to put on a teams training top in a game, as he only had black
Total guess it was Villa v someone.   If someone corrects that, great
Am sure there was logic to taking one kit, I just cannot work it out..

Leeds vs Newcastle, 1997. Newcastle had a navy blue away kit which clashed with the very similar referee kits at the time.

I believe they only wore it on one other occasion, at Sheffield Wednesday, when ironically Elleray was the referee again.  This time he was able to come prepared with the previous green referee kit.


Only fair to give him credit for learning from his mistake!

JCFC

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Re: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford
« Reply #43 on: Wed 24 Feb 2021 11:06 »

F- some teamlines have a box for colours


I'm intrigued by the use of the term teamlines - I had always thought that was purely the recognised Scottish usage, "team sheets" being more widely used in England..

Beryl

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Re: Stephen Martin, Coventry v Brentford
« Reply #44 on: Wed 24 Feb 2021 11:26 »

F- some teamlines have a box for colours


I'm intrigued by the use of the term teamlines - I had always thought that was purely the recognised Scottish usage, "team sheets" being more widely used in England..

Which means that there is more than one country on planet earth!!
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