Author Topic: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021 (Read 1675 times)

ajb95 · « **Reply #30 on:** Sat 08 May 2021 16:58 »

Quote from: Claretman on Sat 08 May 2021 11:18

Quote from: rustyref on Sat 08 May 2021 09:27
Quote from: Ashington46 on Sat 08 May 2021 08:48
Playing Devil's Advocate my question is "Why should UEFA move the final?"

These two teams have recently been part of a breakaway movement that wanted to play most of their matches in Europe with no thought whatsoever for their fans so why shouldn't UEFA give them the opportunity.

If they do move it, will they allow fans to attend and, if they do, how can anyone reconcile that with the fact that, although they allowed a limited number of fans for a cup semi-final featuring two PL sides, they would not allow fans for the Vase and Trophy finals which took place two weeks later, ostensibly in a much healthier country.

Will it be a case of 'money talks'? Watch this space with interest.

Because it is due to be played in a country with one of the highest Covid infection rates in the World. That alone is a valid enough reason, it doesn't need to move to England and could be anywhere with a low infection rate.

Time for the players and clubs to stand up, if eufa wont move the final, they should refuse to travel to a country
With a very high infection rate on health and safety grounds.

Agree rustyref the game could be played in any european country with low infection rates.

Not UK then

ajb95 · « **Reply #31 on:** Sat 08 May 2021 17:03 »

Quote from: TVOS on Sat 08 May 2021 13:46

Quote from: Irrelohe on Sat 08 May 2021 13:27
Again playing devil's advocate, I think most of the responses on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically, for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned.. The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I await the brickbats.

When Turkey was awarded the final, there wasn't a global pandemic. Moving it away from there - and letting them host it another time - is the most sensible decision in what are very unprecedented times, rather like letting Taylor and Oliver referee their second FA Cup Finals.

Also saying "UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final" is extremely insensitive and immoral.

Sounds to me like you're "Anti-Britocentric"!

There was a global pandemic last year which Is why it was moved to Lisbon. Turkey survived last year with very few cases and deaths but has been hit badly by variants.

I don’t know why players coaches etc are worries about self isolating considering it is the last match of the season and the euros doesn’t start for another 3 weeks after so plenty of time to rest and isolate 👍

Irrelohe · « **Reply #32 on:** Sat 08 May 2021 19:02 »

Some very sensible comments since my original contribution to this thread. I certainly wasn't trying to be (or suggesting that UEFA were) "sensitive and immoral". I entirely agree that if UEFA consider that it is not safe for players, staff, officials, fans (if relevant) etc to attend then they should seek to move the venue - subject of course to the precise terms of the contract which awarded the final to Istanbul. However, as far as I am aware, UEFA have not - to date - concluded that it would be unsafe to go ahead with the final in Turkey. As long as that remains the case, it seems appropriate for the final to go ahead as scheduled, and in particular I don't think UEFA should allow themselves to be swayed by the fact that the final is being contested by two English teams and that the UK government's position is that (if indeed this is the case) those involved would have to self-isolate etc on returning to the UK. The latter point arises entirely from the actions of the UK government and is surely no concern of UEFA. (That last point explains my reference to Britocentricity). I doubt the same furore would have arisen had only one English team made it to the final; and if no English team had made it, this thread would not even have been started. (And no, I do not regard myself as Britocentric - I have no shame in saying I am a fervent remainer, and as someone with Continental European heritage I like to think that I can see both sides of these issues).

With reference to Whistleblower's comments re fans, my apologies but I've not kept up with the issue as to whether fans are to be allowed in Istanbul. If not, you could perhaps argue that there is an inconsistency with UEFA's stance on the Euros, but of course one difference is that the CL final was awarded to a specific stadium whereas these Euros were always intended to be spread around, and one could perhaps understand UEFA taking the view that in the current situation only countries which allowed fans in should have Euros hosting rights. I don't really think a precedent would be set.

rustyref · « **Reply #33 on:** Sat 08 May 2021 19:47 »

Quote from: ajb95 on Sat 08 May 2021 17:03

Quote from: TVOS on Sat 08 May 2021 13:46
Quote from: Irrelohe on Sat 08 May 2021 13:27
Again playing devil's advocate, I think most of the responses on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically, for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned.. The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I await the brickbats.

When Turkey was awarded the final, there wasn't a global pandemic. Moving it away from there - and letting them host it another time - is the most sensible decision in what are very unprecedented times, rather like letting Taylor and Oliver referee their second FA Cup Finals.

Also saying "UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final" is extremely insensitive and immoral.

Sounds to me like you're "Anti-Britocentric"!

There was a global pandemic last year which Is why it was moved to Lisbon. Turkey survived last year with very few cases and deaths but has been hit badly by variants.

I don’t know why players coaches etc are worries about self isolating considering it is the last match of the season and the euros doesn’t start for another 3 weeks after so plenty of time to rest and isolate 👍

Apart from lots of them are due to join their international squads a few days after.

GameDay2021 · « **Reply #34 on:** Sat 08 May 2021 19:53 »

Quote from: rustyref on Sat 08 May 2021 19:47

Quote from: ajb95 on Sat 08 May 2021 17:03
Quote from: TVOS on Sat 08 May 2021 13:46
Quote from: Irrelohe on Sat 08 May 2021 13:27
Again playing devil's advocate, I think most of the responses on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically, for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned.. The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I await the brickbats.

When Turkey was awarded the final, there wasn't a global pandemic. Moving it away from there - and letting them host it another time - is the most sensible decision in what are very unprecedented times, rather like letting Taylor and Oliver referee their second FA Cup Finals.

Also saying "UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final" is extremely insensitive and immoral.

Sounds to me like you're "Anti-Britocentric"!

There was a global pandemic last year which Is why it was moved to Lisbon. Turkey survived last year with very few cases and deaths but has been hit badly by variants.

I don’t know why players coaches etc are worries about self isolating considering it is the last match of the season and the euros doesn’t start for another 3 weeks after so plenty of time to rest and isolate 👍

Apart from lots of them are due to join their international squads a few days after.

There is such thing as the general public who they may contact with

rustyref · « **Reply #35 on:** Sat 08 May 2021 20:08 »

Quote from: GameDay2021 on Sat 08 May 2021 19:53

Quote from: rustyref on Sat 08 May 2021 19:47
Quote from: ajb95 on Sat 08 May 2021 17:03
Quote from: TVOS on Sat 08 May 2021 13:46
Quote from: Irrelohe on Sat 08 May 2021 13:27
Again playing devil's advocate, I think most of the responses on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically, for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned.. The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I await the brickbats.

When Turkey was awarded the final, there wasn't a global pandemic. Moving it away from there - and letting them host it another time - is the most sensible decision in what are very unprecedented times, rather like letting Taylor and Oliver referee their second FA Cup Finals.

Also saying "UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final" is extremely insensitive and immoral.

Sounds to me like you're "Anti-Britocentric"!

There was a global pandemic last year which Is why it was moved to Lisbon. Turkey survived last year with very few cases and deaths but has been hit badly by variants.

I don’t know why players coaches etc are worries about self isolating considering it is the last match of the season and the euros doesn’t start for another 3 weeks after so plenty of time to rest and isolate 👍

Apart from lots of them are due to join their international squads a few days after.

There is such thing as the general public who they may contact with

My point was that there isn't a lot of time for them to rest and isolate as was suggested.

Also, it isn't just down to isolation. It is illegal to travel to Turkey from the UK, all direct flights are banned (including chartered flights), and unless the government change their stance from what they have done previously there will be no exception for elite sports.

rustyref · « **Reply #36 on:** Sat 08 May 2021 20:12 »

Quote from: ajb95 on Sat 08 May 2021 16:58

Quote from: Claretman on Sat 08 May 2021 11:18
Quote from: rustyref on Sat 08 May 2021 09:27
Quote from: Ashington46 on Sat 08 May 2021 08:48
Playing Devil's Advocate my question is "Why should UEFA move the final?"

These two teams have recently been part of a breakaway movement that wanted to play most of their matches in Europe with no thought whatsoever for their fans so why shouldn't UEFA give them the opportunity.

If they do move it, will they allow fans to attend and, if they do, how can anyone reconcile that with the fact that, although they allowed a limited number of fans for a cup semi-final featuring two PL sides, they would not allow fans for the Vase and Trophy finals which took place two weeks later, ostensibly in a much healthier country.

Will it be a case of 'money talks'? Watch this space with interest.

Because it is due to be played in a country with one of the highest Covid infection rates in the World. That alone is a valid enough reason, it doesn't need to move to England and could be anywhere with a low infection rate.

Time for the players and clubs to stand up, if eufa wont move the final, they should refuse to travel to a country
With a very high infection rate on health and safety grounds.

Agree rustyref the game could be played in any european country with low infection rates.

Not UK then

That comment makes no sense at all, as the UK now have one of the lowest case rates in Europe, despite carrying out more tests than most. On Friday the UK had 2,613 positive tests. France had almost 22000, Italy nearly 12000, Germany 17000, and Turkey over 22,000.

bruntyboy · « **Reply #37 on:** Sun 09 May 2021 00:20 »

Quote from: rustyref on Sat 08 May 2021 14:47

Quote from: Irrelohe on Sat 08 May 2021 13:27
Again playing devil's advocate, I think most of the responses on this have been very "Britocentric". This is a UEFA competition, and this year the final was awarded to a stadium in Turkey. It so happens that two English teams have reached the final, but that has not in itself been a reason, historically, for the final to be moved to a stadium in the country of the two finalists. UEFA obviously consider that this year it continues to be safe for the final to be played in Turkey. The fact that it may not be possible, or at least practicable, as a matter of UK law for fans based in the UK (or at least England) to attend is, I would suggest, irrelevant as far as UEFA is concerned.. The concept of a red list is an invention of the UK government and is - and should be - of no concern to UEFA, whose concern is and should be merely the hosting of the final. I do not hold any brief for Turkey - far from it - and I do not profess to be aware of the detailed conditions under which UEFA awarded the final, but I think that some balance is appropriate here. I await the brickbats.

It isn't Britocentric as most people are just saying don't hold it in Turkey. Not because it is two English teams, but because Turkey is currently one of the worst affected countries for Covid. If for some bizarre reason they'd decided to hold the final in India would you still be taking the same stance?

It won't be a long time coming.

Ted · « **Reply #38 on:** Sun 09 May 2021 07:18 »

Coventry become European City of Culture in the next few weeks so play it there. Its halfway between London and Manchester and just off the motorway.

Whistleblower · « **Reply #39 on:** Mon 10 May 2021 09:33 »

The Times today reporting that most likely the Champions League Final will be at Wembley with the EFL prepared to move Play Off matches to different venues or different dates. Have to wait and see whether this is just paper talk but the Times usually gets these things right in the event that they publish a story. I imagine the Clubs who got to aPlay Off final would be consulted about whether change of date or venue. At least I would hope so.

ajb95 · « **Reply #40 on:** Mon 10 May 2021 12:11 »

Quote from: Whistleblower on Mon 10 May 2021 09:33

The Times today reporting that most likely the Champions League Final will be at Wembley with the EFL prepared to move Play Off matches to different venues or different dates. Have to wait and see whether this is just paper talk but the Times usually gets these things right in the event that they publish a story. I imagine the Clubs who got to aPlay Off final would be consulted about whether change of date or venue. At least I would hope so.

As much as that makes sense why should the EFL be forced to change or move its finals when they’ve been agreed years in advance in order to cater for a final between 2 clubs who disowned the competition just over a fortnight ago?

Ashington46 · « **Reply #41 on:** Mon 10 May 2021 12:53 »

Quote from: ajb95 on Mon 10 May 2021 12:11

Quote from: Whistleblower on Mon 10 May 2021 09:33
The Times today reporting that most likely the Champions League Final will be at Wembley with the EFL prepared to move Play Off matches to different venues or different dates. Have to wait and see whether this is just paper talk but the Times usually gets these things right in the event that they publish a story. I imagine the Clubs who got to aPlay Off final would be consulted about whether change of date or venue. At least I would hope so.

As much as that makes sense why should the EFL be forced to change or move its finals when they’ve been agreed years in advance in order to cater for a final between 2 clubs who disowned the competition just over a fortnight ago?

As I said previously, 'money' talks ---it will be interesting to see how much is involved, however, I don't think that we will ever know.
I am in total agreement that, should they wish to use Wembley, it is the Champions League Final which should change date and not the EFL play-off finals.

bmb · « **Reply #42 on:** Mon 10 May 2021 16:30 »

Bang out of order if that happens

rustyref · « **Reply #43 on:** Mon 10 May 2021 19:14 »

Seems to be looking like Portugal as the UK government won't back down on allowing sponsors and general UEFA bigwigs to enter without quarantine measures.

To me that would be the best outcome. I never thought it should be in England, but it was very clear it couldn't be in Turkey, so it is looking like a sensible compromise might be reached.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57051804

LateTackle · « **Reply #44 on:** Thu 13 May 2021 14:19 »

Quote from: Ted on Sun 09 May 2021 07:18

Coventry become European City of Culture in the next few weeks so play it there. Its halfway between London and Manchester and just off the motorway.

While I would love to see such a high profile game in my home city, I dread to think what the state of the pitch would be like after a season of egg-chasing all over it. I am just hoping there will be a playable pitch for our return next season.

It seems that the final is to be played in Porto at the splendid Estadio do Dragao. Porto is a wonderful city that I've had the pleasure of visiting several times. Not much can beat Frango Peri Peri washed down with Super Bock.

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Author Topic: Stadium Debate (UCL Final 2021 (Read 1675 times)

ajb95

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ajb95

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Irrelohe

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rustyref

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GameDay2021

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rustyref

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rustyref

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bruntyboy

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Ted

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Whistleblower

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ajb95

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Ashington46

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bmb

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rustyref

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LateTackle

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