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Author Topic: SG1 Talk  (Read 2300 times)

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bmb

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Re: SG1 Talk
« Reply #15 on: Fri 12 May 2023 18:27 »

Surely it's most important that the best officials form SG1 irrespective of where they're from?

Which is exactly why the postcode ruling was binned 5/6 years ago now!

Out of interest, has this made any practical difference? Are there many examples of referees in the PL or EFL refereeing teams they wouldn't have previously?

Keith Stroud has refereed AFCB where he couldn't before because of BH postcode.
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!

Beacon

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Re: SG1 Talk
« Reply #16 on: Fri 12 May 2023 19:41 »
The lack of Southern referees really does matter. How can our capital city not have had a SG1/ prem league referee for years. When was the last one? Alf  Buksh, Phil Don and Tony Ward? Norfolk I don’t think has had a football league referee since Jim Borrett. How can it be justified that we repeatedly transport refs all over the country for fourth official duties, which is shameful ecologically. Statistically the level of inequity is bewildering. Role models matter and the North/South split can not be justified. There must be bias in the system whether intentional or not and this is wrong.

Guidedog

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Re: SG1 Talk
« Reply #17 on: Fri 12 May 2023 21:36 »
Typical southern whining. The North can’t be that good, the South deserves better.
As far as I’m concerned. Mt Ward does you no favours and I would agree that the best referees at present are in the North.  Would you really hold a referee back on acological grounds ?  You might as well relegate Newcastle because it’s too far to travel.
Better and more constructive to ask why the South is not producing., and that I cannot answer.
From my era the bsst were Messrs Courtney, Tyson, Worrall, Glover and Taylor. I leave the geography to you.

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RCG

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Re: SG1 Talk
« Reply #18 on: Fri 12 May 2023 21:57 »
Its quite cyclical - at one stage we had Poll  Durkin, Bennett, Halsey, Barber etc and the cry was "where are the northerners?"

Along came Webb, Atkinson, Clattenburg etc

Hopefully with referees being used nationally from as low as 2B, the best referees are making their way to the top, regardless of postcode

Dont forget Norfolk have had one of our very best ARs in Darren Cann (Lee Betts is from there too)
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rustyref

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Re: SG1 Talk
« Reply #19 on: Fri 12 May 2023 22:09 »
The lack of Southern referees really does matter. How can our capital city not have had a SG1/ prem league referee for years. When was the last one? Alf  Buksh, Phil Don and Tony Ward? Norfolk I don’t think has had a football league referee since Jim Borrett. How can it be justified that we repeatedly transport refs all over the country for fourth official duties, which is shameful ecologically. Statistically the level of inequity is bewildering. Role models matter and the North/South split can not be justified. There must be bias in the system whether intentional or not and this is wrong.

Think that is just the nature of London.  There are lots of senior officials that refereed in London, but moved elsewhere before they made it to the top levels.  Lots of people move to London when they are young but then move away when they get a bit older and are looking to settle down and start a family, either because they don't want their kids being brought up in London schools or they just can't afford to buy a house there.

It is also inherently harder to be a senior referee in London as most people work in the city or West End and therefore can't drive to work.  Elsewhere in the country referees will drive straight to games from work, that isn't an option for most London based referees, and I know from my own experience it was a real problem.  I'd have to leave work very early to go home to get the car to then go to the game.
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TheThingFromLewes

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Re: SG1 Talk
« Reply #20 on: Sat 13 May 2023 00:05 »
Gone are the days of the Southern brigade we had of Styles, Bennett, Probert, East and of course Barry Knight. 😳

DBLTFC

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Re: SG1 Talk
« Reply #21 on: Sat 13 May 2023 06:20 »

Surely it's most important that the best officials form SG1 irrespective of where they're from?

Which is exactly why the postcode ruling was binned 5/6 years ago now!

Out of interest, has this made any practical difference? Are there many examples of referees in the PL or EFL refereeing teams they wouldn't have previously?

Keith Stroud has refereed AFCB where he couldn't before because of BH postcode.
Keith Stroud (and Stuart Attwell) I’m fairly certain couldn’t do Luton. But they’ve both done Watford matches, the former at least once this season. Was Attwell not the ref for the infamous “ghost goal” many years ago?

Readingfan

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Re: SG1 Talk
« Reply #22 on: Sat 13 May 2023 07:46 »

Surely it's most important that the best officials form SG1 irrespective of where they're from?

Which is exactly why the postcode ruling was binned 5/6 years ago now!

Out of interest, has this made any practical difference? Are there many examples of referees in the PL or EFL refereeing teams they wouldn't have previously?

Keith Stroud has refereed AFCB where he couldn't before because of BH postcode.
Keith Stroud (and Stuart Attwell) I’m fairly certain couldn’t do Luton. But they’ve both done Watford matches, the former at least once this season. Was Attwell not the ref for the infamous “ghost goal” many years ago?

Yes, Attwell refereed Watford V Reading in 2008.

I remember Stroud refereeing Reading V Bournemouth in 2015. I'm not sure when the postcode rule was changed? Was it after Kevin Friend was taken off Stoke V Spurs when Leicester were going for the title?

Leggy

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Re: SG1 Talk
« Reply #23 on: Sat 13 May 2023 10:42 »
The lack of Southern referees really does matter. How can our capital city not have had a SG1/ prem league referee for years. When was the last one? Alf  Buksh, Phil Don and Tony Ward? Norfolk I don’t think has had a football league referee since Jim Borrett. How can it be justified that we repeatedly transport refs all over the country for fourth official duties, which is shameful ecologically. Statistically the level of inequity is bewildering. Role models matter and the North/South split can not be justified. There must be bias in the system whether intentional or not and this is wrong.

Think that is just the nature of London.  There are lots of senior officials that refereed in London, but moved elsewhere before they made it to the top levels.  Lots of people move to London when they are young but then move away when they get a bit older and are looking to settle down and start a family, either because they don't want their kids being brought up in London schools or they just can't afford to buy a house there.

It is also inherently harder to be a senior referee in London as most people work in the city or West End and therefore can't drive to work.  Elsewhere in the country referees will drive straight to games from work, that isn't an option for most London based referees, and I know from my own experience it was a real problem.  I'd have to leave work very early to go home to get the car to then go to the game.

The standard of football that officials have to referee is also a factor. 

As does having a job with a County FA or the FA.
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bmb

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Re: SG1 Talk
« Reply #24 on: Sat 13 May 2023 11:09 »
Keith Stroud (and Stuart Attwell) I’m fairly certain couldn’t do Luton. But they’ve both done Watford matches, the former at least once this season. Was Attwell not the ref for the infamous “ghost goal” many years ago?

Keith Stroud supports Luton
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!

bmb

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Re: SG1 Talk
« Reply #25 on: Sat 13 May 2023 11:17 »
I remember Stroud refereeing Reading V Bournemouth in 2015.

I think that was after he moved from a BH postcode to a SO postcode.  That was what always made me laugh about the postcode rule - you could live 60/70 miles away from AFCB and still have a BH postcode so couldn't referee AFCB or you could live 5/10 miles in the other direction and have an SO one and therefore could!

I can't remember which season it was actually scrapped but it is at least 5/6 years ago.
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!

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Re: SG1 Talk
« Reply #26 on: Sun 14 May 2023 06:45 »
Gone are the days of the Southern brigade we had of Styles, Bennett, Probert, East and of course Barry Knight. 😳

One of life’s eternal great mysteries - how on earth did Barry Knight make it to the SG??? 😱 😱😱
If I recall he was promoted at the same time as Barber and Bennett, who both made a success of their elevated status.
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takethejag

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Re: SG1 Talk
« Reply #27 on: Sun 14 May 2023 11:57 »
Gone are the days of the Southern brigade we had of Styles, Bennett, Probert, East and of course Barry Knight. 😳

One of life’s eternal great mysteries - how on earth did Barry Knight make it to the SG??? 😱 😱😱
If I recall he was promoted at the same time as Barber and Bennett, who both made a success of their elevated status.

Quite, the mention of Barry Knight (and previously Mark Halsey) doesn't exactly augment the argument that SG1 is somewhat at a loss due the current dearth of London/Southern based refs. At least in the case of Halsey he buggered off oop North!

TheThingFromLewes

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Re: SG1 Talk
« Reply #28 on: Sun 14 May 2023 12:19 »
Gone are the days of the Southern brigade we had of Styles, Bennett, Probert, East and of course Barry Knight. 😳

One of life’s eternal great mysteries - how on earth did Barry Knight make it to the SG??? 😱 😱😱
If I recall he was promoted at the same time as Barber and Bennett, who both made a success of their elevated status.

Quite, the mention of Barry Knight (and previously Mark Halsey) doesn't exactly augment the argument that SG1 is somewhat at a loss due the current dearth of London/Southern based refs. At least in the case of Halsey he buggered off oop North!

Andy D’Urso from Billericay. I’ll never forget his famous game Fulham v Middlesbrough.

takethejag

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Re: SG1 Talk
« Reply #29 on: Sun 14 May 2023 13:13 »
Gone are the days of the Southern brigade we had of Styles, Bennett, Probert, East and of course Barry Knight. 😳

One of life’s eternal great mysteries - how on earth did Barry Knight make it to the SG??? 😱 😱😱
If I recall he was promoted at the same time as Barber and Bennett, who both made a success of their elevated status.

Quite, the mention of Barry Knight (and previously Mark Halsey) doesn't exactly augment the argument that SG1 is somewhat at a loss due the current dearth of London/Southern based refs. At least in the case of Halsey he buggered off oop North!

Andy D’Urso from Billericay. I’ll never forget his famous game Fulham v Middlesbrough.

His 0.91 of a game after that other refereeing great Lee 'Phil Mitchell' Mason limped off after 8 minutes. Thank god for goal line technology