Author Topic: Rob Jones Leeds vs Burnley (Read 1680 times)

greeny · « **Reply #15 on:** Sun 27 Dec 2020 16:47 »

Rob Jones has another game coming up - Newcastle v Leicester, which he can focus on. I am sure he will be upset by his performance today, but he has the chance to put into practice the things he has learnt from today.

Aberdare · « **Reply #16 on:** Sun 27 Dec 2020 19:02 »

The stakes are no ridiculously high for jobs and finance to have learners on the job. He isn't good enough yet. It doesn't mean he won't be, but the gulf between him and the Dean, Oliver, Taylor, Atkinson is vast. promoted too soon to appease those who felt it was a closed shop.

DublinRef · « **Reply #17 on:** Sun 27 Dec 2020 19:26 »

Quote from: Aberdare on Sun 27 Dec 2020 19:02

The stakes are no ridiculously high for jobs and finance to have learners on the job. He isn't good enough yet. It doesn't mean he won't be, but the gulf between him and the Dean, Oliver, Taylor, Atkinson is vast. promoted too soon to appease those who felt it was a closed shop.

Do you think Dean, Oliver, Taylor and Atkinson arrived in the PL at the same level they are at now?

I guarantee that all of the referees you listed put in far worse performances than Jones today during their start in the PL. If the attitude that you had prevailed nobody would progress, you say we can't have "learners on the job" how on earth would anyone start as a PL referee if that was the case.

anje-roo · « **Reply #18 on:** Sun 27 Dec 2020 20:07 »

We could have a never-ending discussion about the rights & wrongs of promotion through the ranks to SG1/UEFA etc etc.. I wouldn't bet my house on this, but I'm sure that a significant majority of officials below SG1/SG2 wouldn't struggle in PL/EFL games with the absence of crowds but televised. I see highly accurate decision-making & decision-selling and good rapport with players at levels below the top of the pyramid & these guys/girls are used to small vocal crowds. There is an opportunity, for all the wrong (covid) reasons, to "move the goalposts" so that many senior SG1/SG2/EFL officials can become FOs/VARs/AVARs (thereby relieving the current SG1 officials from having to work consecutive days) and pushing promising (usually "young") officials up to the top of the pyramid. Especially if grassroots games cannot occur due to tier restrictions. Sometimes short-term pain results in long-term gain. How many occasions have there been this season when correspondents express concern about the age profile of SG1?

The players in today's Leeds v Burnley game were all equally frustrated by the officials. Communication and game-management were surprisingly below-par. Many potential reasons, only resulting in worries should similar recur in forthcoming PL/FA Cup 3rd round games featuring the same officials.

TVOS · « **Reply #19 on:** Sun 27 Dec 2020 21:56 »

Quote from: Aberdare on Sun 27 Dec 2020 19:02

The stakes are no ridiculously high for jobs and finance to have learners on the job. He isn't good enough yet. It doesn't mean he won't be, but the gulf between him and the Dean, Oliver, Taylor, Atkinson is vast. promoted too soon to appease those who felt it was a closed shop.

Which jobs are on the line? If Dyche gets sacked because Burnley lost today, he won't find himself on the breadline, will he? In fact, no players or managers in the Premier League will be affected that way, so mentioning finance and jobs is typical Premier League hyperbolic nonsense. They're hardly playing for or managing Macclesfield, are they?

Rob Jones in his fifth season since joining the National List. Stuart Attwell, Mike Dean, Michael Oliver and Martin Atkinson were all refereeing in the Premier League much earlier into their careers at this level, Anthony Taylor took the same amount of time, so your "promoted too soon" has little evidence or history behind it.

Each of those officials were quickly identified as SG1 standard early in their NL careers, as shown by their appointments (derby matches, promotion/relegation clashes, play-offs, etc), just like Rob Jones was.

Each of those officials have had good games and bad games at whatever level they have refereed at, just like Rob Jones does.

Each of those officials now have a vast amount of experience at home and abroad, but back in October 2007, when Michael Oliver was making Rochdale wear their away shirts at home to Brentford to avoid a STRIPES CLASH; or in August 1997 when Mike Dean refereed Rochdale v Peterborough; or in September 2003 when Martin Atkinson was showing two red cards at York v Rochdale, etc, those officials had very little experience in League Two, never mind anything higher, just like Rob Jones did when he took charge of Newport v Mansfield in August 2016.

He hasn't been promoted too soon; he has served four seasons in the EFL, which is plenty of time to assess whether an official with his abilities is suitable for the top level, especially given some of the games he has already refereed in the Championship, for instance.

One poor game at Leeds today doesn't alter that fact, especially coming as it does after other appointments which have raised hardly any comment on here.

Also, given the likes of Lee Probert left the SG1 list last season, there were gaps to be filled, so how does that fit in with your "closed shop" comment?

nemesis · « **Reply #20 on:** Sun 27 Dec 2020 22:04 »

Quote from: PhiltheRef on Sun 27 Dec 2020 15:15

I would venture to suggest that nobody will be more aware of and disappointed by this afternoon than Rob

Absolutely nobody ....................... apart from Sean Dyche, all the Burnley players and all their supporters.

nemesis · « **Reply #21 on:** Sun 27 Dec 2020 22:09 »

Quote from: TVOS on Sun 27 Dec 2020 21:56

Quote from: Aberdare on Sun 27 Dec 2020 19:02
The stakes are no ridiculously high for jobs and finance to have learners on the job. He isn't good enough yet. It doesn't mean he won't be, but the gulf between him and the Dean, Oliver, Taylor, Atkinson is vast. promoted too soon to appease those who felt it was a closed shop.

...

Rob Jones in his fifth season since joining the National List. Stuart Attwell, Mike Dean, Michael Oliver and Martin Atkinson were all refereeing in the Premier League much earlier into their careers at this level, Anthony Taylor took the same amount of time, so your "promoted too soon" has little evidence or history behind it.

Each of those officials were quickly identified as SG1 standard early in their NL careers, as shown by their appointments (derby matches, promotion/relegation clashes, play-offs, etc), just like Rob Jones was.

Each of those officials have had good games and bad games at whatever level they have refereed at, just like Rob Jones does.

Each of those officials now have a vast amount of experience at home and abroad, but back in October 2007, when Michael Oliver was making Rochdale wear their away shirts at home to Brentford to avoid a STRIPES CLASH; or in August 1997 when Mike Dean refereed Rochdale v Peterborough; or in September 2003 when Martin Atkinson was showing two red cards at York v Rochdale, etc, those officials had very little experience in League Two, never mind anything higher, just like Rob Jones did when he took charge of Newport v Mansfield in August 2016.

...

I would go as far as to say Rob Jones' progress through the lower leagues was far more impressive than that of those other referees named.

Readingfan · « **Reply #22 on:** Sun 27 Dec 2020 22:31 »

I think Oliver settled into the PL relatively quickly/well but has definitely improved a lot (as you'd expect) from those early days. I saw Oliver in one of his first few seasons on a Reading game and thought he struggled quite a bit with a fairly physical encounter.

I wasn't too impressed by Taylor for the first year or two - he's hit heights since that I would never have expected back then so has done very well.

Marriner took quite a few years before it really felt like he was fully trusted and has gone on to be very steady indeed.

Jones was discussed for promotion back in 2018 and has a further two years of experience since then. He is more than ready and deserving of his opportunity and am sure will go on to have many better games than he did today.

As said, big mistake in blowing 'too quickly' for disallowed goal - whilst accepting there's a balancing act on how far an official hesitates on every decision before they look indecisive.

I don't think VAR would ever be likely to give a penalty for that as keepers always seem to get away with challenges such as that for some reason. I'd love to know what VAR would have made of it if they'd been able to intervene - I think many Pl referees would still give a free-kick to be honest. I seem to remember Mike Riley once giving a goalkeeper a free-kick in the Merseyside derby when he fell over after colliding with a defender with no attacker in touching distance!

TVOS · « **Reply #23 on:** Sun 27 Dec 2020 22:31 »

Quote from: nemesis on Sun 27 Dec 2020 22:09

Quote from: TVOS on Sun 27 Dec 2020 21:56
Quote from: Aberdare on Sun 27 Dec 2020 19:02
The stakes are no ridiculously high for jobs and finance to have learners on the job. He isn't good enough yet. It doesn't mean he won't be, but the gulf between him and the Dean, Oliver, Taylor, Atkinson is vast. promoted too soon to appease those who felt it was a closed shop.

...

Rob Jones in his fifth season since joining the National List. Stuart Attwell, Mike Dean, Michael Oliver and Martin Atkinson were all refereeing in the Premier League much earlier into their careers at this level, Anthony Taylor took the same amount of time, so your "promoted too soon" has little evidence or history behind it.

Each of those officials were quickly identified as SG1 standard early in their NL careers, as shown by their appointments (derby matches, promotion/relegation clashes, play-offs, etc), just like Rob Jones was.

Each of those officials have had good games and bad games at whatever level they have refereed at, just like Rob Jones does.

Each of those officials now have a vast amount of experience at home and abroad, but back in October 2007, when Michael Oliver was making Rochdale wear their away shirts at home to Brentford to avoid a STRIPES CLASH; or in August 1997 when Mike Dean refereed Rochdale v Peterborough; or in September 2003 when Martin Atkinson was showing two red cards at York v Rochdale, etc, those officials had very little experience in League Two, never mind anything higher, just like Rob Jones did when he took charge of Newport v Mansfield in August 2016.

...

I would go as far as to say Rob Jones' progress through the lower leagues was far more impressive than that of those other referees named.

Arguably not Michael Oliver, who refereed a play-off final in his second season, but point taken. I'm excluding Stuart Attwell from that debate as his promotion really was too much too soon.

Hendo · « **Reply #24 on:** Mon 28 Dec 2020 08:02 »

Too much too soon and too many chances too often.

Acme Thunderer · « **Reply #25 on:** Mon 28 Dec 2020 08:45 »

JUst caught up with this. Unlike the BBC pundits, I thought the early Leeds penalty award was quite correct, the Burnley goalie taking out the on-coming Leeds forward. Yes, he may have touched the ball first but the challenge was too heavy for play to be allowed to continue. I agree that Rob Jones was wrong to disallow the Burnley goal, but equally, I don't believe that it was a penalty incident, more the Leeds goalie going for the ball and the Burnley player getting in the way.

Failed Ref · « **Reply #26 on:** Mon 28 Dec 2020 09:50 »

Agree with Acme Thunderer. For the penalty that was given, the goalkeeper has to be more circumspect with the advantage now lying more with the attacker. Challenge was too heavy but where the line is drawn, goodness only knows and he/she is not saying.
The disallowed goal was unfortunate. Many referees on their way to the top will have blown too soon and Mr Jones will be a better referee for the experience. What I am uncomfortable with is the idea that goalkeepers can come out with a raised knee and clatter into the back of someone who is unprepared for the impact. This needs clamping down on although Mr Jones was not the person to set the precedent here!
This game will be a test of Mr Jones' character and I feel he will be a better referee at this level for it. I hope so.

TVOS · « **Reply #27 on:** Mon 28 Dec 2020 10:21 »

Quote from: Acme Thunderer on Mon 28 Dec 2020 08:45

JUst caught up with this. Unlike the BBC pundits, I thought the early Leeds penalty award was quite correct, the Burnley goalie taking out the on-coming Leeds forward. Yes, he may have touched the ball first but the challenge was too heavy for play to be allowed to continue. I agree that Rob Jones was wrong to disallow the Burnley goal, but equally, I don't believe that it was a penalty incident, more the Leeds goalie going for the ball and the Burnley player getting in the way.

Eh? So if a defender is “going for the ball”, but misses his tackle and brings down the attacking player (who just happened to be “in the way”), it wouldn’t be a penalty?

Ashington46 · « **Reply #28 on:** Mon 28 Dec 2020 10:45 »

Proof if it were needed that, with the award of the first penalty, the ball does not matter at all because Pope shinned the ball, as could be seen with the direction of travel after had had played it which was away from the goal and into the field of play. Bamford was travelling at speed, however, his studs were showing as he challenged for the ball and could easily have been penalised for that. From the referees angle, he would not be able to see the incident clearly, however, he blew very quickly and pointed to the spot and was backed up by VAR. However, Pope did not receive a caution so what was the offence that was committed ---ah yes, he played the ball and that is not important any more.

The free kick given against Mee was a real puzzle because he had his back to the keeper and could not know that the keeper was coming for the ball. Suddenly, he was poleaxed by the keeper's knee into his back, even before the ball had arrived, however, the referee sees this as a foul by Mee and gives Leeds a free kick, he obviously never even considered that it may have been a penalty.

Another puzzle was when two players jumped with their feet up to compete for a ball, the Burnley player won the ball and was kicked by the Leeds player, however, the Leed player went down squealing and won the free kick. The Burnley player then said something and was booked, which he deserved, however, it was just another incident amongst many that, by that stage in the game, had become very frustrating.

I am in the same boat as Sean Dyche in stating that, as far as physicality in the game is concernecd, I no longer have any idea what is and is not acceptable, however, I am of the opinion that they should start playing without a ball because the ball is obviously no longer important in a sport which used to be physical, combative and a joy to watch but is being changed beyond recognition.

Acme Thunderer · « **Reply #29 on:** Mon 28 Dec 2020 11:18 »

Quote from: TVOS on Mon 28 Dec 2020 10:21

Quote from: Acme Thunderer on Mon 28 Dec 2020 08:45
JUst caught up with this. Unlike the BBC pundits, I thought the early Leeds penalty award was quite correct, the Burnley goalie taking out the on-coming Leeds forward. Yes, he may have touched the ball first but the challenge was too heavy for play to be allowed to continue. I agree that Rob Jones was wrong to disallow the Burnley goal, but equally, I don't believe that it was a penalty incident, more the Leeds goalie going for the ball and the Burnley player getting in the way.

Eh? So if a defender is “going for the ball”, but misses his tackle and brings down the attacking player (who just happened to be “in the way”), it wouldn’t be a penalty?

Ok, not very well worded, let's leave it at - I didn't think it was a foul either way, and Rob Jones was wrong to whistle.

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Author Topic: Rob Jones Leeds vs Burnley (Read 1680 times)

greeny

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Aberdare

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DublinRef

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anje-roo

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TVOS

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nemesis

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nemesis

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Readingfan

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Hendo

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Acme Thunderer

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Failed Ref

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TVOS

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Ashington46

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Acme Thunderer

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