+-

+-User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 

Login with your social network

Forgot your password?

+-Stats ezBlock

Members
Total Members: 953
Latest: Yorksref
New This Month: 21
New This Week: 3
New Today: 1
Stats
Total Posts: 75105
Total Topics: 5527
Most Online Today: 153
Most Online Ever: 17046
(Mon 29 Mar 2021 19:08)
Users Online
Members: 4
Guests: 106
Total: 110

Author Topic: Quantity of Match Officials at the World Cup  (Read 1613 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ref Watcher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 620
    • View Profile
Quantity of Match Officials at the World Cup
« on: Mon 28 Nov 2022 15:44 »
i am a little bemused by the quantity of officials required for a World Cup match.  Apart from the three running about and those in the VAR booth (five more according to the appointments) there appear to be two referees acting as fourth officials.  Neither of these fourth officials are apparently able to program the substitutes' board.  This is a task allotted to someone sitting at a table by the half way line.  This official also seems to have at least two assistants sitting with him.

I am not sure whether I should be outraged by the fact that, despite this number of people being required, I have not had a call up or whether I should be asking for a pay rise since I am expected to carry out the whole substitution malarkey on my own each week whilst simultaneously galloping (ish) up and down the line.  By FIFA's time and motion calculations I seem to be doing at least six people's jobs at the same time.

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Like Like x 1 Funny Funny x 5 View List

rustyref

  • RTR Veterans
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1,602
    • View Profile
Each game has a 4th official who would replace the referee, and a reserve assistant.  This makes absolute sense as most of the referees won't have waved a flag for decades, so asking them to go on the line in a World Cup final game would be a huge risk.  The same has been done on English cup finals for a few years.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Ref Watcher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 620
    • View Profile
My post was a little tongue-in-cheek.  I certainly accept the good sense in having two specialist replacements available.  Why they both need to be involved in passing electronic boards to each other baffles me somewhat.  The purpose of the admin staff at the nearby table is also not clear to me when the rest of us seem to manage all the tasks on our own.  And why an entire office full of VARs is required for each game is completely beyond me.  It all seems like a job creation scheme to me. 

bmb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,047
  • Gender: Female
  • Causing mischief & mayhem!!
  • Location: Somewhere between Poole & Budapest!
    • View Profile
    • Hungarian Football
  • Referee Level: Observer/Mentor.
4 of the VAR team are in the dedicated VAR centre. The VAR, AVAR, OVAR and SVAR. The SVAR takes over monitoring play developing if any of the other 3 are reviewing an incident. The SAVAR is at the ground where there is a back up VAR room in case the link/comms go down between the VAR centre and the ground.

If that were to happen the 4O moves into the VAR room in the ground and takes over as VAR with the SAVAR taking over as AVAR and the VAR team would operate as a team of 2 instead of 4. As well as being the reserve AR to replace an injured AR, the 5th official would also take over the role of 4O if the named 4O has to move into the ground based VAR room.

It therefore makes sense that they are actively involved with any substitutions etc and are maintaining a record of them, along with any cards issued etc. incase they have to step in as 4O.
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
Informative Informative x 2 View List

cwh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: amesbury
    • View Profile
  • Referee Level: ex level 2/assesor
4 of the VAR team are in the dedicated VAR centre. The VAR, AVAR, OVAR and SVAR. The SVAR takes over monitoring play developing if any of the other 3 are reviewing an incident. The SAVAR is at the ground where there is a back up VAR room in case the link/comms go down between the VAR centre and the ground.

If that were to happen the 4O moves into the VAR room in the ground and takes over as VAR with the SAVAR taking over as AVAR and the VAR team would operate as a team of 2 instead of 4. As well as being the reserve AR to replace an injured AR, the 5th official would also take over the role of 4O if the named 4O has to move into the ground based VAR room.

It therefore makes sense that they are actively involved with any substitutions etc and are maintaining a record of them, along with any cards issued etc. incase they have to step in as 4O.
It all seems very complicated to me -I wonder how long that on field match officals at this level will become redundant ?
« Last Edit: Wed 30 Nov 2022 04:31 by cwh »

Whistleblower

  • RTR Veterans
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2,627
    • View Profile
How Jack Taylor, Joe Worrall, George Courtney et al managed to referee so efficiently and well despite not having this as huge cadre of support officials is nothing short of a miracle. Perhaps it was something to do with their abundant talent.
Like Like x 1 View List

bmb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,047
  • Gender: Female
  • Causing mischief & mayhem!!
  • Location: Somewhere between Poole & Budapest!
    • View Profile
    • Hungarian Football
  • Referee Level: Observer/Mentor.
How Jack Taylor, Joe Worrall, George Courtney et al managed to referee so efficiently and well despite not having this as huge cadre of support officials is nothing short of a miracle. Perhaps it was something to do with their abundant talent.

And the fact players did not spend 90 mins using any and every form of the dark arts to try and con them. You can't compare then & now, the game itself is so different. Back then many players would have a cigarette at half time, some probably accompanied by a pint.  These days players, and the top top referees, are super fit athletes, not even an ounce of fat on them. There's a whole department dedicated to getting the right nutrition. The game is played at probably double the speed and is much more technical. Red card then was only given if multiple bones were broken or the fire brigade had to be called out to rescue said player on the wrong end of the tackle from the top of the floodlights. The LOTG were simple and understandable, these days you need a degree in contortionism to understand the handball law and degrees in maths and science to understand offside!! It was a lot more simpler, players got on and played, referees got on and refereed. 1 shaky camera in the middle of the main stand unlike the 24+ uber HD cameras of today, that can have zoomed right in slo mo replays onto social media within seconds. No social media... Managers didn't spend their entire post match interview blaming the ref for a blade of grass being 0.000001mm longer than the one next to it, WWI, WWII and probably WWIII and anything else that the ref is guilty of. A global audience of millions and a media who join the managers in blaming refs for all and sundry, whilst ignoring the bad behaviour and unsportmenlike conduct of players. Top flight games have literally millions riding on the result. I'd wager they were no more accurate in decision making than their counterparts of today but back then no-one took any notice, ref error was no different to player error, a quick shrug and it was forgotten, unlike these days where you still hear how terrible x ref is because they made a poor game changing decision 10 years ago and football still hasn't moved on from it!
« Last Edit: Wed 30 Nov 2022 18:12 by bmb »
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
Like Like x 1 View List

Leggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 703
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: East Grinstead
    • View Profile
  • Referee Level: Long Retired Level 3
How Jack Taylor, Joe Worrall, George Courtney et al managed to referee so efficiently and well despite not having this as huge cadre of support officials is nothing short of a miracle. Perhaps it was something to do with their abundant talent.

And the fact players did not spend 90 mins using any and every form of the dark arts to try and con them. You can't compare then & now, the game itself is so different. Back then many players would have a cigarette at half time, some probably accompanied by a pint.  These days players, and the top top referees, are super fit athletes, not even an ounce of fat on them. There's a whole department dedicated to getting the right nutrition. The game is played at probably double the speed and is much more technical. Red card then was only given if multiple bones were broken or the fire brigade had to be called out to rescue said player on the wrong end of the tackle from the top of the floodlights. The LOTG were simple and understandable, these days you need a degree in contortionism to understand the handball law and degrees in maths and science to understand offside!! It was a lot more simpler, players got on and played, referees got on and refereed. 1 shaky camera in the middle of the main stand unlike the 24+ uber HD cameras of today, that can have zoomed right in slo mo replays onto social media within seconds. No social media... Managers didn't spend their entire post match interview blaming the ref for a blade of grass being 0.000001mm longer than the one next to it, WWI, WWII and probably WWIII and anything else that the ref is guilty of. A global audience of millions and a media who join the managers in blaming refs for all and sundry, whilst ignoring the bad behaviour and unsportmenlike conduct of players. Top flight games have literally millions riding on the result. I'd wager they were no more accurate in decision making than their counterparts of today but back then no-one took any notice, ref error was no different to player error, a quick shrug and it was forgotten, unlike these days where you still hear how terrible x ref is because they made a poor game changing decision 10 years ago and football still hasn't moved on from it!


I'm sorry but I am not 100% sure if you think it was better then or better now  ;)  ;)
Funny Funny x 1 View List

bmb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,047
  • Gender: Female
  • Causing mischief & mayhem!!
  • Location: Somewhere between Poole & Budapest!
    • View Profile
    • Hungarian Football
  • Referee Level: Observer/Mentor.
How Jack Taylor, Joe Worrall, George Courtney et al managed to referee so efficiently and well despite not having this as huge cadre of support officials is nothing short of a miracle. Perhaps it was something to do with their abundant talent.

And the fact players did not spend 90 mins using any and every form of the dark arts to try and con them. You can't compare then & now, the game itself is so different. Back then many players would have a cigarette at half time, some probably accompanied by a pint.  These days players, and the top top referees, are super fit athletes, not even an ounce of fat on them. There's a whole department dedicated to getting the right nutrition. The game is played at probably double the speed and is much more technical. Red card then was only given if multiple bones were broken or the fire brigade had to be called out to rescue said player on the wrong end of the tackle from the top of the floodlights. The LOTG were simple and understandable, these days you need a degree in contortionism to understand the handball law and degrees in maths and science to understand offside!! It was a lot more simpler, players got on and played, referees got on and refereed. 1 shaky camera in the middle of the main stand unlike the 24+ uber HD cameras of today, that can have zoomed right in slo mo replays onto social media within seconds. No social media... Managers didn't spend their entire post match interview blaming the ref for a blade of grass being 0.000001mm longer than the one next to it, WWI, WWII and probably WWIII and anything else that the ref is guilty of. A global audience of millions and a media who join the managers in blaming refs for all and sundry, whilst ignoring the bad behaviour and unsportmenlike conduct of players. Top flight games have literally millions riding on the result. I'd wager they were no more accurate in decision making than their counterparts of today but back then no-one took any notice, ref error was no different to player error, a quick shrug and it was forgotten, unlike these days where you still hear how terrible x ref is because they made a poor game changing decision 10 years ago and football still hasn't moved on from it!


I'm sorry but I am not 100% sure if you think it was better then or better now  ;)  ;)

I'd love to see the higher skilled game & athleticism of today played without the dark arts and with the same levels of respect between player/coaches/referees of yesterday. Not sure I will ever get my wish!
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
Like Like x 1 View List

Affy_Moose

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 313
  • Scottish Match Official
    • View Profile
Whilst VAR hasn’t been without its confusion (we can think of a couple of penalty/non-penalty calls), it has been remarkably fast, efficient and non-obtrusive.

That will be immediately compared in Scotland, England, and the other VAR leagues in late December, with less than favourable reviews.

Of course, it will be ignored/forgotten that VAR in the WC has access to even more cameras, whilst having 4 x dedicated VAR officials, and operated by the very best referees in the world in all positions.  It will also absolutely be forgotten that the teams play in a far different manner, that manifestly requires fewer reviews.

VAR (by the sheer virtue of its existence) was always going to create the situation, but it is also remarkable how few red cards we’ve had in this World Cup.  I believe it remains just the one for Wales, which was effectively unavoidable given the nature of the challenge, and the ‘deliberate’ second caution for Cameroon.  There will be some expectation for that to continue back into the domestic game, but all the nuance will be immediately forgotten, laughably by the same pundits and commentators covering this competition.

Others will note the difference and then bemoan why we can’t do the same thing in England/Scotland/Germany/other.  Again, they’ll fail to address the underlying problem which is the cost, and levels of competition (i.e. it doesn’t matter how competitive your sport or occupation is, there will always be an upper echelon of abilities, which always makes the rest relatively less able).

That noted, the only method available to seriously improve the level of any sport or occupation substantially is to increase the numbers at the bottom of the pyramid.  That requires i) far more money at the grassroots level of the game, and ii) a massive change in mentality and culture of all involved in football.

Make it more competitive, and increase retention, and the entirety of the game will improve.
« Last Edit: Mon 05 Dec 2022 19:00 by Affy_Moose »
Like Like x 1 View List

Deanspen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
    • View Profile
I know style varies but taking all things into consideration I think the general standard has been reasonably good.  Same as the lining really. Let’s put it another way, I have seen a lot worse in previous years.

SmallChild

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
  • Referee Level: 3
To those who worried that 10 was too many officials to appoint to a single game. FIFA have appointed one more on top of the referee, two assistants, a fourth, a reserve assistant, a video assistant, an assistant video assistant, an offside video assistant, a support video assistant and a stand by assistant video assistant.

The remaining eight games will now have a stand by video assistant referee who is at the stadium and will take over VAR duties if there is a communications problem between the ground and the referees' hub, so that the fourth official does not have to do this and the reserve assistant doesn't have to become the fourth official.

Wollongong Ref

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
    • View Profile
Other than the amount of officials in the VAR booth.... this version has seen dedicated 4th officials in the same list as the referees eg Mr I Vad was only at the World Cup as a 4th official. as was Ma Ning and the others from Concacaf and Comenbol