Author Topic: Promotion 2021  (Read 7302 times)

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Vissla7

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Re: Promotion 2021
« Reply #45 on: Wed 23 Jun 2021 11:21 »

NL to NG
Andrew (Mark) Kitchen - Stanley, Durham Q4 1983

Good work on some but no chance Andrew Kitchen is 38!

Pretty sure he's born in 1995 and would be 26 max.

John Treleven

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Re: Promotion 2021
« Reply #46 on: Wed 23 Jun 2021 15:53 »
As far as I can ascertain from relatively sketchy resources & JCFC's research -

Referee Promotions:

SG2 to Premier League
John (Edmund C.) Brooks - Melton Mowbray, Leics Q4 1990
Jared (Gavan) Gillet - Liverpool, Lancs (ex Gold Coast, Queensland) 01.11.1986
Tony (sic) Harrington - Hartlepool, Durham Q4 1983
(grandson of Tommy McGuigan, 355 apps, 79 goals for Hartlepool United 1950-58)
Michael (Edward) Salisbury - Preston, Lancs Q1 1985

NG to SG2
Thomas "Tom" (William) Bramall - Sheffield, Yorks Q3 1990
(elder brother of referee Joshua Luke Bramall, Chesterfield Q1 1994)
John (Thomas) Busby - Wallingford, Oxon Q3 1986

NL to NG
Andrew (Robert) Kitchen - Stanley, Durham Q2 1995
Rebecca Welch - Washington Durham 1983 (or early 1984)
Simon (Winston) Mather - Manchester, Lancs Q3 1984
Tom Reeves - Coventry, Warwicks 1997

Assistant Referee Promotions:

SG2 - SG1
Wade (Thomas) Smith - Stockport, Cheshire Q1 1992

NG to SG2
Andrew (Robert) Dallison - Mansfield, Notts Q3 1989
Geoffrey "Geoff" (William) Liddle - Bishop Auckland, Durham 20.08.1977

NL to NG
Johnathon (Peter G.) Bickerdike - Leeds, Yorks Q1 1991
Nicholas "Nick" (John) Dunn - Ashford, Kent Q1 1989
Alexander "Alex" (Philip) James - Southampton, Hants 1985
Declan (Thomas) O'Shea - Swindon, Wilts Q1 1991
Lewis (Owen W.) Raper - Liverpool, Lancs Q3 1989
Mark (Anthony) Stevens - Leighton Buzzard, Beds Q3 1984
Darren "Daz" Williams - Newcastle, Northumberland Q1 1980 (born Dec 1979)

PhiltheRef

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Re: Promotion 2021
« Reply #47 on: Wed 23 Jun 2021 18:34 »
I am perplexed and not a little concerned by, if not the direct wording, the implications that may be read into certain comments, particularly as relate to Rebecca Welch.
Why is it acceptable to wonder if her promotion is for other than reasons of her ability?
Would similar questions be raised about, fir example, an LGTBQ Official?
Were they raised, again for example, when Uriah Rennie reached the Premier League?
The majority of female officials I know would be just as offended at suggestions of them receiving positive discrimination as they are at being discriminated against
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RCG

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Re: Promotion 2021
« Reply #48 on: Wed 23 Jun 2021 20:19 »
Consider a merit list, composed over a season, taking into account previous seasons endeavours. At the end of that season there are play off/post season matches and participants have been told that those who are in the top echelons will receive the games.
2 eliminators, 2 semi finals and 1 final
5 referees and 5 reserve referees
So the top 10?
However someone outside of those 10, is invited for interview and promoted.

That is the issue - not who they are, M/F, gay/str8 etc etc

It should raise an eyebrow if anyone not involved in the play offs was promoted
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Jackinthebox

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Re: Promotion 2021
« Reply #49 on: Thu 24 Jun 2021 06:59 »
Congratulations to all offical who gained promotion. With regards to the premier league promotions while I'm.plessed Michael Salisbury has got promotion as I rate him very highly i am quite surprised. Didn't have any meaningful matches in the regular season and no live TV games if I remember correctly. Personally would of Thought Tim Robinson or Geoff Eltringham would of been in line first

justalino

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Re: Promotion 2021
« Reply #50 on: Thu 24 Jun 2021 09:08 »
It is probably worth noting that the fitness test requirements are being ramped up over the next couple of years, along with the body fat limits being reduced, which is of course a way of getting rid of the older elements of each list without falling foul of age discrimination legislation!  This may explain the fairly unprecedented four promotions to the SG1 referees list.

Regarding the promotion of Rebecca Welch, none of us will ever know where she finished in the merit table and anything else is pure speculation.  Granted, she didn't get appointed to a play-off game but do remember she may have been injured or been unavailable for work/personal reasons.  However, if this isn't the case then it would be disappointing.  Ten referees were appointed to the play off games (including 4th officials) and you would have to logically assume these were the top ten referees in the merit list.  To then promote someone outside of that based on their belonging to a particular social demographic as a potential PR exercise would be wrong and totally unfair on the official concerned - it's a big step up from the NL to the EFL, not necessarily in terms of the standard of football but most definitely in terms of expectation, prestige and media scrutiny.

We will never know, but I really hope this promotion was made on the basis of merit and nothing else, as promoting someone before they are ready is totally unfair on the referee.

Even more unfair on the teams and supporters of teams they referee in their unready state. Not to mention unfair a referee who might have been ready but misses out in the interests of inclusivity and diversity.

Have to say with the abuse of match officials week in, week out by teams and supporters alike I couldn't really care less if it's unfair on them!  But I take your point.
Those supporters you donít care about pay vast sums of money to follow their teams around the country and all they want is matches refereed fairly and in a competent manner, something that they donít always get.

And those supporters that pay 'vast sums of money' use that as an excuse to behave in a manner which would get you arrested in the street or sacked in an office, but we pass it off as 'passion' because it happens within the confines of a football ground, so forgive me if my sympathy is running a little short.
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justalino

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Re: Promotion 2021
« Reply #51 on: Thu 24 Jun 2021 09:16 »
I am perplexed and not a little concerned by, if not the direct wording, the implications that may be read into certain comments, particularly as relate to Rebecca Welch.
Why is it acceptable to wonder if her promotion is for other than reasons of her ability?
Would similar questions be raised about, fir example, an LGTBQ Official?
Were they raised, again for example, when Uriah Rennie reached the Premier League?
The majority of female officials I know would be just as offended at suggestions of them receiving positive discrimination as they are at being discriminated against

Let me just clarify my own comments here because I accept what you are saying entirely.  Towards the end of every season, we can usually have a good guess (and we do) at who is in the frame based on big league games, cup final and play off appointments.  Based on that 'evidence' this promotion was a surprise.  As you rightly say, there may be other factors at play of course.

I actively stand against all forms of discrimination in society and we should all be working hard to eliminate it.

TVOS

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Re: Promotion 2021
« Reply #52 on: Thu 24 Jun 2021 10:06 »
It is probably worth noting that the fitness test requirements are being ramped up over the next couple of years, along with the body fat limits being reduced, which is of course a way of getting rid of the older elements of each list without falling foul of age discrimination legislation!  This may explain the fairly unprecedented four promotions to the SG1 referees list.

Regarding the promotion of Rebecca Welch, none of us will ever know where she finished in the merit table and anything else is pure speculation.  Granted, she didn't get appointed to a play-off game but do remember she may have been injured or been unavailable for work/personal reasons.  However, if this isn't the case then it would be disappointing.  Ten referees were appointed to the play off games (including 4th officials) and you would have to logically assume these were the top ten referees in the merit list.  To then promote someone outside of that based on their belonging to a particular social demographic as a potential PR exercise would be wrong and totally unfair on the official concerned - it's a big step up from the NL to the EFL, not necessarily in terms of the standard of football but most definitely in terms of expectation, prestige and media scrutiny.

We will never know, but I really hope this promotion was made on the basis of merit and nothing else, as promoting someone before they are ready is totally unfair on the referee.

Even more unfair on the teams and supporters of teams they referee in their unready state. Not to mention unfair a referee who might have been ready but misses out in the interests of inclusivity and diversity.

Have to say with the abuse of match officials week in, week out by teams and supporters alike I couldn't really care less if it's unfair on them!  But I take your point.
Those supporters you donít care about pay vast sums of money to follow their teams around the country and all they want is matches refereed fairly and in a competent manner, something that they donít always get.

And those supporters that pay 'vast sums of money' use that as an excuse to behave in a manner which would get you arrested in the street or sacked in an office, but we pass it off as 'passion' because it happens within the confines of a football ground, so forgive me if my sympathy is running a little short.

All supporters?
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Mackem ref

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Re: Promotion 2021
« Reply #53 on: Thu 24 Jun 2021 10:15 »
I wouldnít say that Ms Welchís promotion came as a surprise. She had an FL trial match, alongside Mather, as well as an FA final, both indications of a good season. Furthermore, she seems to have relatively few NL matches and referees regularly in the FAWSL. Surely these performances will be taken into account also?
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JCFC

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Re: Promotion 2021
« Reply #54 on: Thu 24 Jun 2021 11:35 »
Sadly, RefObserver's prediction in May 2019 that Lewis Smith would make the EFL within two years was a very near miss. He will have to wait another season - but no longer than that, I trust.
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Carter149

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Re: Promotion 2021
« Reply #55 on: Thu 24 Jun 2021 23:05 »
Any Ideas on when the Level 3 - 2B & 2B - 2A Promotions are out ?

ASM

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Re: Promotion 2021
« Reply #56 on: Fri 25 Jun 2021 07:27 »
They wonít be. FA announced back in March that those promotions wonít happen and instead the merit list for next season will include all games 1 August 2020- end of 2021/22 season.
 https://twitter.com/farefereeing/status/1374300343564111872?s=21

Vissla7

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Re: Promotion 2021
« Reply #57 on: Fri 25 Jun 2021 10:30 »
In addition to no promotions from the levels below, the National League Premier has already lost 4 referees and 7 assistant referees from promotions to the Football League, will this not leave them dangerously short at the start of this season or was there already "too many"?

Just read the article above and it suggests mid-season promotions will take place but we're looking at December/Jan time for those, with a hectic FA competition schedule thrown in as well it could be a nightmare for those that appoint.
« Last Edit: Fri 25 Jun 2021 10:34 by Vissla7 »

nemesis

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Re: Promotion 2021
« Reply #58 on: Fri 25 Jun 2021 12:00 »
In addition to no promotions from the levels below, the National League Premier has already lost 4 referees and 7 assistant referees from promotions to the Football League, will this not leave them dangerously short at the start of this season or was there already "too many"?

Just read the article above and it suggests mid-season promotions will take place but we're looking at December/Jan time for those, with a hectic FA competition schedule thrown in as well it could be a nightmare for those that appoint.

Given that they only needed one of the "best" six for 10 matches, I guess there were plenty.

rustyref

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Re: Promotion 2021
« Reply #59 on: Fri 25 Jun 2021 12:39 »
No 5 to 4 promotions either and that also now runs August 2020 to April 2022.  I suspect they are going to have a real shortage of level 4s in some areas, and the FA have said there may be interim promotions but as yet haven't said when, guess they will wait to see how bad the shortages are.  Whilst there are no 4 to 3 promotions, or 4 to 5 demotions, every year L4s are lost through natural wastage.  May well be worse this year as some might have got so used to having their Saturdays and midweeks back that they decide not to return.  That was my reason for quitting L3, I spent a few months out after knee surgery and realised I wasn't really missing it, certainly not as much as I should have been.