RateTheRef

Again, finally we are seeing what VAR should be used for. I thought red straight away and was very surprised Tierney went yellow to start with.

At least he’s ditched the circle red card! 😂😂

Maybe this won't be a popular opinion but I actually agreed with yellow, good chance the keeper gets there first for me and enough doubt to go yellow. While if Tierney had gone red I would have expected VAR to support, I don't think yellow was a clear and obvious error.

Isn't it only a yellow IF there is a legitimate attempt to play the ball, and therefore I ask, where was the attempt to play the ball by Christian?

Quote from: Matt on Sun 20 Sep 2020 18:31

Quote from: DublinRef on Sun 20 Sep 2020 17:44

Maybe this won't be a popular opinion but I actually agreed with yellow, good chance the keeper gets there first for me and enough doubt to go yellow. While if Tierney had gone red I would have expected VAR to support, I don't think yellow was a clear and obvious error.

Isn't it only a yellow IF there is a legitimate attempt to play the ball, and therefore I ask, where was the attempt to play the ball by Christian?

That's for when the foul challenge is inside the area, to prevent the double jeopardy punishment...

Indeed - DOGSO outside the penalty area is a red card regardless of if there was an attempt to play the ball.

The only question mark is if Mane or Kepa would have got there first. Not 100% certain but I think most likely Mane would have (and perhaps been fouled by Kepa!)

When a foul is so cynical I don't think the defender will get much sympathy and I think everyone's expectation was a red card - certainly there didn't seem to be any objection/controversy on Sky or 5 Live.

Quote from: QuoCob on Sun 20 Sep 2020 19:21

Quote from: Matt on Sun 20 Sep 2020 18:31

Quote from: DublinRef on Sun 20 Sep 2020 17:44

Maybe this won't be a popular opinion but I actually agreed with yellow, good chance the keeper gets there first for me and enough doubt to go yellow. While if Tierney had gone red I would have expected VAR to support, I don't think yellow was a clear and obvious error.

Isn't it only a yellow IF there is a legitimate attempt to play the ball, and therefore I ask, where was the attempt to play the ball by Christian?

That's for when the foul challenge is inside the area, to prevent the double jeopardy punishment...

Indeed - DOGSO outside the penalty area is a red card regardless of if there was an attempt to play the ball.

The only question mark is if Mane or Kepa would have got there first. Not 100% certain but I think most likely Mane would have (and perhaps been fouled by Kepa!)

When a foul is so cynical I don't think the defender will get much sympathy and I think everyone's expectation was a red card - certainly there didn't seem to be any objection/controversy on Sky or 5 Live.

But is most likely good enough for a red card?  It has to be an obvious goalscoring opportunity.  For that to be the case Mane would either have to have control, or obviously be about to gain control, of the ball.  It was not sufficiently obvious for me that that was the case.  It should have been a yellow card for me

As an aside, Paul Tierney's position was such that he couldn't make that call.  He was directly behind the incident and failed to give himself an angle to judge it.

Quote from: Readingfan on Sun 20 Sep 2020 19:52

Quote from: QuoCob on Sun 20 Sep 2020 19:21

Quote from: Matt on Sun 20 Sep 2020 18:31

Quote from: DublinRef on Sun 20 Sep 2020 17:44

Maybe this won't be a popular opinion but I actually agreed with yellow, good chance the keeper gets there first for me and enough doubt to go yellow. While if Tierney had gone red I would have expected VAR to support, I don't think yellow was a clear and obvious error.

Isn't it only a yellow IF there is a legitimate attempt to play the ball, and therefore I ask, where was the attempt to play the ball by Christian?

That's for when the foul challenge is inside the area, to prevent the double jeopardy punishment...

Indeed - DOGSO outside the penalty area is a red card regardless of if there was an attempt to play the ball.

The only question mark is if Mane or Kepa would have got there first. Not 100% certain but I think most likely Mane would have (and perhaps been fouled by Kepa!)

When a foul is so cynical I don't think the defender will get much sympathy and I think everyone's expectation was a red card - certainly there didn't seem to be any objection/controversy on Sky or 5 Live.

But is most likely good enough for a red card?  It has to be an obvious goalscoring opportunity.  For that to be the case Mane would either have to have control, or obviously be about to gain control, of the ball.  It was not sufficiently obvious for me that that was the case.  It should have been a yellow card for me

As an aside, Paul Tierney's position was such that he couldn't make that call.  He was directly behind the incident and failed to give himself an angle to judge it.

I have some sympathy with this view and those who argue whether it was a clear and obvious error or not.

Of the four considerations for DOGSO, I'd say three were absolutely clear cut and those boxes could be ticked with permanent marker pen. The one about control is one which is a bit more subjective but personally I think the strong likelihood (unless missing the ball etc.) is he would have gained control - hence why I think the defender so cynically fouled him.

I think within the spirit of the game/law it felt like a red card and there'd have been a lot more controversy if one hadn't been given because it's what nearly everyone was expecting. Oliver looked at it as VAR and Tierney as referee and with benefit of replays both obviously thought it was red so I think it was a reasonable decision/process as personally I'd certainly say red card is a better decision than yellow card.