Author Topic: promoted refs (Read 1625 times)

Affy_Moose · « **Reply #15 on:** Thu 02 Dec 2021 18:19 »

If it helps, I have a spreadsheet of the number of games officiated by every referee in the PL since 1992? Easy to deduce from that when officials first/last officiated.

Also have red/yellow cards as well for each season.

GingerReferee · « **Reply #16 on:** Thu 02 Dec 2021 18:24 »

Quote from: Affy_Moose on Thu 02 Dec 2021 18:19

If it helps, I have a spreadsheet of the number of games officiated by every referee in the PL since 1992? Easy to deduce from that when officials first/last officiated.

Also have red/yellow cards as well for each season.

If that's alright, does that update each week?

bmb · « **Reply #17 on:** Thu 02 Dec 2021 18:52 »

Quote from: Affy_Moose on Thu 02 Dec 2021 18:19

If it helps, I have a spreadsheet of the number of games officiated by every referee in the PL since 1992? Easy to deduce from that when officials first/last officiated.

Also have red/yellow cards as well for each season.

If the spreadsheet is online pop a link to it in the Trivia & humour section & I'll sticky it in there, if you would like to of course. If I sticky it in here then Flip gets his broom out and tidies up after me adding a bunch of sticky threads!

*Just don't tell him I said that or he'll sweep me into the naughty corner again!

ajb95 · « **Reply #18 on:** Thu 02 Dec 2021 19:10 »

Quote from: Affy_Moose on Thu 02 Dec 2021 18:19

If it helps, I have a spreadsheet of the number of games officiated by every referee in the PL since 1992? Easy to deduce from that when officials first/last officiated.

Also have red/yellow cards as well for each season.

Is this accurate in terms of refs replacing other refs etc.?

Affy_Moose · « **Reply #19 on:** Fri 03 Dec 2021 15:29 »

Quote from: ajb95 on Thu 02 Dec 2021 19:10

Quote from: Affy_Moose on Thu 02 Dec 2021 18:19
If it helps, I have a spreadsheet of the number of games officiated by every referee in the PL since 1992? Easy to deduce from that when officials first/last officiated.

Also have red/yellow cards as well for each season.

Is this accurate in terms of refs replacing other refs etc.?

I'm not sure what this means? The total number of referee appointments is greater than the number of matches played (by a small margin). I assume the disparity is from abandonment, or referee injuries during games.

The data was all pulled from PremierLeague.com I haven't updated it for this season yet, as I only have need of the data for complete seasons.

I'll tidy it up and put it onto a shared Google Sheets file

greeny · « **Reply #20 on:** Fri 03 Dec 2021 17:44 »

Just as an interesting comparison, here are the stats for newly promoted referees across some of the other big European leagues:

La Liga (15 rounds):
Miguel Ortiz Arias - 8 games
Alejandro Muniz Ruiz - 7 games
8 is the maximum number any referee has done

Ligue 1 (16 rounds):
Pierre Gaillouste - 7 games
Romain Lissorgue - 6 games
9 is the maximum number any referee has done

Bundesliga (13 rounds):
Matthias Jollenbeck - 5 games
Tobias Reichel - 4 games
Tobias Welz - 4 games
6 is the maximum number any referee has done

Premier League (15 rounds)-
Jarred Gillett - 3 games
John Brooks - 1 game
Michael Salisbury - 1 game
Tony Harrington - 0 games
12 will be the maximum number any referee has done

*Premier League stats include the forthcoming round, the other leagues don't.

Mikael W · « **Reply #21 on:** Sun 05 Dec 2021 09:22 »

Quote from: greeny on Fri 03 Dec 2021 17:44

Just as an interesting comparison, here are the stats for newly promoted referees across some of the other big European leagues:

La Liga (15 rounds):
Miguel Ortiz Arias - 8 games
Alejandro Muniz Ruiz - 7 games
8 is the maximum number any referee has done

Ligue 1 (16 rounds):
Pierre Gaillouste - 7 games
Romain Lissorgue - 6 games
9 is the maximum number any referee has done

Bundesliga (13 rounds):
Matthias Jollenbeck - 5 games
Tobias Reichel - 4 games
Tobias Welz - 4 games
6 is the maximum number any referee has done

Premier League (15 rounds)-
Jarred Gillett - 3 games
John Brooks - 1 game
Michael Salisbury - 1 game
Tony Harrington - 0 games
12 will be the maximum number any referee has done

*Premier League stats include the forthcoming round, the other leagues don't.

Without being pedantic, Welz is a former UEFA 1st Cat who was out injured for some time; he was promoted to the BL for season 10/11.

Thanks very much for collating this info though!

Affy_Moose · « **Reply #22 on:** Mon 06 Dec 2021 10:43 »

Quote from: bmb on Thu 02 Dec 2021 18:52

Quote from: Affy_Moose on Thu 02 Dec 2021 18:19
If it helps, I have a spreadsheet of the number of games officiated by every referee in the PL since 1992? Easy to deduce from that when officials first/last officiated.

Also have red/yellow cards as well for each season.

If the spreadsheet is online pop a link to it in the Trivia & humour section & I'll sticky it in there, if you would like to of course. If I sticky it in here then Flip gets his broom out and tidies up after me adding a bunch of sticky threads!

*Just don't tell him I said that or he'll sweep me into the naughty corner again!

Morning @bmb

That's the link now live (just needed to tidy it up, and make sure it was published in a way that didn't include my details).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSN5jQUaboqHQxqooJSsx7lEJrIoo-rbM_G6S4ejvPf3WyzPZz9hBPFrB5zzrTFn1Q-Obzxj3iIFXZo/pubhtml

I used this data to create a few videos on Youtube on referee stats (previously shared here). If you copy it over to the Trivia section, I'll update with those links too.

The data is presented in a simple table. That allows it to be pivoted easily into a format that suits for the user's purpose (I can provide some basic guidance if anyone is less familiar with spreadsheets).

bmb · « **Reply #23 on:** Mon 06 Dec 2021 11:56 »

Morning

Thank you! There is now a stickied topic in the trivia & humour section of the board!

Just in case anyone is interested I have a pretty comprehensive stats sheet for the NBI referees this season: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Px-ZSLFV8DJEiOf1a2vz0EQyUNqlgkKQ5x08zUG5RFs/edit?usp=sharing It is currently missing weeks 14 & 15 but I will be updating it in the next couple of days. I decided to add in a section on VAR interventions but have only just started that. International appointments are not up to date either - I keep forgetting them!

Acme Thunderer · « **Reply #24 on:** Mon 06 Dec 2021 15:45 »

Thanks for these stats Affy_Moose, they are most informative. Just one query - Gary Lewis, 6 games in 1992/93. I don't remember him at all and Upton's only refers to a G Lewis from Cambridgeshire in season 2004/5. Interesting the large number of refs who had PL games in the early days.

ajb95 · « **Reply #25 on:** Mon 06 Dec 2021 15:48 »

Quote from: Affy_Moose on Fri 03 Dec 2021 15:29

Quote from: ajb95 on Thu 02 Dec 2021 19:10
Quote from: Affy_Moose on Thu 02 Dec 2021 18:19
If it helps, I have a spreadsheet of the number of games officiated by every referee in the PL since 1992? Easy to deduce from that when officials first/last officiated.

Also have red/yellow cards as well for each season.

Is this accurate in terms of refs replacing other refs etc.?

I'm not sure what this means? The total number of referee appointments is greater than the number of matches played (by a small margin). I assume the disparity is from abandonment, or referee injuries during games.

The data was all pulled from PremierLeague.com I haven't updated it for this season yet, as I only have need of the data for complete seasons.

I'll tidy it up and put it onto a shared Google Sheets file

Sorry if I was unclear. There are many occasions when a ref is replaces before the match. Particularly focusing on the earlier PL years, is the PL website accurate in terms of showing the referees who actually refereed the matches rather than the initial appointment?

jad · « **Reply #26 on:** Mon 06 Dec 2021 16:21 »

Quote from: greeny on Fri 03 Dec 2021 17:44

Just as an interesting comparison, here are the stats for newly promoted referees across some of the other big European leagues:

La Liga (15 rounds):
Miguel Ortiz Arias - 8 games
Alejandro Muniz Ruiz - 7 games
8 is the maximum number any referee has done

Ligue 1 (16 rounds):
Pierre Gaillouste - 7 games
Romain Lissorgue - 6 games
9 is the maximum number any referee has done

Bundesliga (13 rounds):
Matthias Jollenbeck - 5 games
Tobias Reichel - 4 games
Tobias Welz - 4 games
6 is the maximum number any referee has done

Premier League (15 rounds)-
Jarred Gillett - 3 games
John Brooks - 1 game
Michael Salisbury - 1 game
Tony Harrington - 0 games
12 will be the maximum number any referee has done

*Premier League stats include the forthcoming round, the other leagues don't.

The position in Italy is complicated by the reversion this season to a single list for Serie A and B, but in previous seasons it was the normal practice for each newly promoted referee to the Serie A list to receive an appointment in the one of the first two rounds of fixtures; over the season the total number of appointments would be similar to those of longer-serving officials. As for this season, last week I posted the match officials for the 15th round of fixtures for Serie A; two of these fixtures went to referees promoted this season to the Serie A/B list.

greeny · « **Reply #27 on:** Mon 06 Dec 2021 16:30 »

I deliberately avoided Serie A because that works in a different way to everywhere else - over 40 referees have been used already this season. However, if we look at the remaining big European leagues, they work in a very different way to the Premier League - appointments are spread out more fairly, and newly promoted referees quickly settle in because they get regular fixtures, not something we do in this country.

Affy_Moose · « **Reply #28 on:** Mon 06 Dec 2021 16:44 »

Quote from: greeny on Mon 06 Dec 2021 16:30

I deliberately avoided Serie A because that works in a different way to everywhere else - over 40 referees have been used already this season. However, if we look at the remaining big European leagues, they work in a very different way to the Premier League - appointments are spread out more fairly, and newly promoted referees quickly settle in because they get regular fixtures, not something we do in this country.

I suspect there is something to Premier League exceptionalism that comes from having different bodies in charge of different parts of football in England (FA versus Premier League versus Football League).

In England, 19 referees were used last season in the PL. In Scotland (with 12 teams, as opposed to 20) we used 20 officials in the top flight last season. That's quite an incredible comparison.

Obviously, the media scrutiny etc. is different, but it's an interesting observation nonetheless.

With 10 teams in our second tier, we used 27 referees, whilst the English Championship used 31 with its 24 sides.

Perhaps, with the Scottish approach of gently bringing officials in (there are officials in Scotland who officiate from Tier 1 to Tier 5), there are some benefits. The alternative would be to operate a more restricted group, but then you may struggle with over-promoting officials, or bringing them in too early. I'm not saying England do that, but it's a greater risk if you operate a closed shop. It also restricts the upward movement of officials who should be fast-tracked.

Affy_Moose · « **Reply #29 on:** Mon 06 Dec 2021 16:47 »

Quote from: Acme Thunderer on Mon 06 Dec 2021 15:45

Thanks for these stats Affy_Moose, they are most informative. Just one query - Gary Lewis, 6 games in 1992/93. I don't remember him at all and Upton's only refers to a G Lewis from Cambridgeshire in season 2004/5. Interesting the large number of refs who had PL games in the early days.

There were 40 or so referees in 92/93 if I recall correctly? There were more matches due to having 24 teams, but the numbers of officials has sharply reduced since then (I would politely suggest that professionalism, fitness, and ability has improved too).

The data source for 92/93 is available here: https://www.premierleague.com/referees/index?se=1

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Author Topic: promoted refs (Read 1625 times)

Affy_Moose

Re: promoted refs

GingerReferee

Re: promoted refs

bmb

Re: promoted refs

ajb95

Re: promoted refs

Affy_Moose

Re: promoted refs

greeny

Re: promoted refs

Mikael W

Re: promoted refs

Affy_Moose

Re: promoted refs

bmb

Re: promoted refs

Acme Thunderer

Re: promoted refs

ajb95

Re: promoted refs

jad

Re: promoted refs

greeny

Re: promoted refs

Affy_Moose

Re: promoted refs

Affy_Moose

Re: promoted refs