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Author Topic: P Bankes - Wolves V Newcastle  (Read 1063 times)

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Mikael W

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Re: P Bankes - Wolves V Newcastle
« Reply #15 on: Tue 30 Aug 2022 16:44 »
Not the best two weeks for Bankes, though he did do well (I think?) in tense-context Panathinaikos vs. Slavia Prague game before it:

- simply poor performance in Fulham vs. Brentford as perfectly stated by TTFL, at least one missed RC and no control

- ridiculous intervention in Newcastle vs. Man City (assessed as correct by PGMOL 🤡s, and by football sphere tbf)

- missed intervention in Southampton vs. Man Utd for clear handball (also assessed as correct by 🤡s at PGMOL, and rightly assessed as clear mistake by football sphere, please stop insulting fans intelligence eg. by telling them juggling the ball isn't handling offence...)

- many mistakes as excellently outlined by Arbitre anglais/Observeref8  (there is hope for our refereeing if you are part of it!) in Wolves vs. Newcastle

So many of our (FIFA!!) referees would not survive in even 2nd/3rd divisions of middle-ranking UEFA nations!


If the last sentence of this post is true then senior English refereeing is indeed in a parlous state but for my money the poster doth protest too much.So many of our ( FIFA !! ) referees not up to the standard of 2nd and 3rd divisions of middle-ranking UEFA nations !  I realise this is just an opinion backed up without a shred of empirical evidence but I am left wondering who are these referees? Surely not Taylor and Oliver, who are regularly appointed to major Finals,  neither I would say Pawson, Kavanagh Attwell or England. So whose left ? Are Madley, Bankes, Coote really not even 2nd/3rd division standard in other nations ? Perhaps so but somehow, from what I have seen from the lower ranking FIFA officials from other Uefa countries when they have refereed English teams, I doubt it.

I have gone on record as saying FIFA badges are handed out very easily these days but in England is it so much worse than everywhere else? Hmmmmm.

PGMOL coaches referees who are only able to take a back seat and never take a game by the scruff of the neck. You can mostly get away with this in our leagues, but in the conflict heavy games of - as just one example - Bulgarian football, many of our officials would sink verrryy badly because they'd have absolutely idea what to do, how to deal with such a game. Kavanagh's excruciatingly poor performance in the Real Madrid vs. Benfica Youth League final, case-in-point. In those leagues you need charisma, ability to spot (clear!!) SFPs/VCs, stronger foul recognition to even reach 2nd/3rd division, which I simply don't see in (too!) many of our officials.

Okay, you can say it is an issue of education/experience of such intensive games and so on, but: when you don't care about charisma on the pitch, when you don't really reward courageous decisions, have club marks even at PL level(!!!), have incredibly mediocre vetted 'match delegates' people, have the league essentially run the reffing with no independence, infuriate protesting players/managers who just want consistency/decent refs by saying a) at this level, you aren't just handling a game, you are managing an event s**t and b) 'we have the best referees in the world' (when even, as an example, Belarus has better refereeing than us IMO...), and prefer to focus on identity politics nonsense / trying to control the narrative through Gallagher, Dale Johnson et al rather than actually improve the refs(!!) -> this is the perfect environment to not only encourage, but actively reward pure mediocrity.

PGMOL institutionalises it! They are the enemies of good refereeing and our officiating will never improve whilst they are in existence.
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ajb95

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Re: P Bankes - Wolves V Newcastle
« Reply #16 on: Tue 30 Aug 2022 18:08 »
Not the best two weeks for Bankes, though he did do well (I think?) in tense-context Panathinaikos vs. Slavia Prague game before it:

- simply poor performance in Fulham vs. Brentford as perfectly stated by TTFL, at least one missed RC and no control

- ridiculous intervention in Newcastle vs. Man City (assessed as correct by PGMOL 🤡s, and by football sphere tbf)

- missed intervention in Southampton vs. Man Utd for clear handball (also assessed as correct by 🤡s at PGMOL, and rightly assessed as clear mistake by football sphere, please stop insulting fans intelligence eg. by telling them juggling the ball isn't handling offence...)

- many mistakes as excellently outlined by Arbitre anglais/Observeref8  (there is hope for our refereeing if you are part of it!) in Wolves vs. Newcastle

So many of our (FIFA!!) referees would not survive in even 2nd/3rd divisions of middle-ranking UEFA nations!


If the last sentence of this post is true then senior English refereeing is indeed in a parlous state but for my money the poster doth protest too much.So many of our ( FIFA !! ) referees not up to the standard of 2nd and 3rd divisions of middle-ranking UEFA nations !  I realise this is just an opinion backed up without a shred of empirical evidence but I am left wondering who are these referees? Surely not Taylor and Oliver, who are regularly appointed to major Finals,  neither I would say Pawson, Kavanagh Attwell or England. So whose left ? Are Madley, Bankes, Coote really not even 2nd/3rd division standard in other nations ? Perhaps so but somehow, from what I have seen from the lower ranking FIFA officials from other Uefa countries when they have refereed English teams, I doubt it.

I have gone on record as saying FIFA badges are handed out very easily these days but in England is it so much worse than everywhere else? Hmmmmm.

PGMOL coaches referees who are only able to take a back seat and never take a game by the scruff of the neck. You can mostly get away with this in our leagues, but in the conflict heavy games of - as just one example - Bulgarian football, many of our officials would sink verrryy badly because they'd have absolutely idea what to do, how to deal with such a game. Kavanagh's excruciatingly poor performance in the Real Madrid vs. Benfica Youth League final, case-in-point. In those leagues you need charisma, ability to spot (clear!!) SFPs/VCs, stronger foul recognition to even reach 2nd/3rd division, which I simply don't see in (too!) many of our officials.

Okay, you can say it is an issue of education/experience of such intensive games and so on, but: when you don't care about charisma on the pitch, when you don't really reward courageous decisions, have club marks even at PL level(!!!), have incredibly mediocre vetted 'match delegates' people, have the league essentially run the reffing with no independence, infuriate protesting players/managers who just want consistency/decent refs by saying a) at this level, you aren't just handling a game, you are managing an event s**t and b) 'we have the best referees in the world' (when even, as an example, Belarus has better refereeing than us IMO...), and prefer to focus on identity politics nonsense / trying to control the narrative through Gallagher, Dale Johnson et al rather than actually improve the refs(!!) -> this is the perfect environment to not only encourage, but actively reward pure mediocrity.

PGMOL institutionalises it! They are the enemies of good refereeing and our officiating will never improve whilst they are in existence.

Whilst I agree somewhat, and I agree with everything re the PGMOL, the obvious difference is that other leagues the referees body is SEPARATE from the league or is run by the national FA. In England the refereeing and PGMOL is paid for, led by and therefore determined by its owners which is the premier league, not a separate body like the FA.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t the fa is fit for purpose and refereeing is not great at lower levels but that mantra or culture starts at the top and filters down, especially when most of the current crop of level 1 referees work as referee RDO’s, mentors, coaches and CORE co-ordinators

rustyref

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Re: P Bankes - Wolves V Newcastle
« Reply #17 on: Tue 30 Aug 2022 18:54 »
Not the best two weeks for Bankes, though he did do well (I think?) in tense-context Panathinaikos vs. Slavia Prague game before it:

- simply poor performance in Fulham vs. Brentford as perfectly stated by TTFL, at least one missed RC and no control

- ridiculous intervention in Newcastle vs. Man City (assessed as correct by PGMOL 🤡s, and by football sphere tbf)

- missed intervention in Southampton vs. Man Utd for clear handball (also assessed as correct by 🤡s at PGMOL, and rightly assessed as clear mistake by football sphere, please stop insulting fans intelligence eg. by telling them juggling the ball isn't handling offence...)

- many mistakes as excellently outlined by Arbitre anglais/Observeref8  (there is hope for our refereeing if you are part of it!) in Wolves vs. Newcastle

So many of our (FIFA!!) referees would not survive in even 2nd/3rd divisions of middle-ranking UEFA nations!


If the last sentence of this post is true then senior English refereeing is indeed in a parlous state but for my money the poster doth protest too much.So many of our ( FIFA !! ) referees not up to the standard of 2nd and 3rd divisions of middle-ranking UEFA nations !  I realise this is just an opinion backed up without a shred of empirical evidence but I am left wondering who are these referees? Surely not Taylor and Oliver, who are regularly appointed to major Finals,  neither I would say Pawson, Kavanagh Attwell or England. So whose left ? Are Madley, Bankes, Coote really not even 2nd/3rd division standard in other nations ? Perhaps so but somehow, from what I have seen from the lower ranking FIFA officials from other Uefa countries when they have refereed English teams, I doubt it.

I have gone on record as saying FIFA badges are handed out very easily these days but in England is it so much worse than everywhere else? Hmmmmm.

PGMOL coaches referees who are only able to take a back seat and never take a game by the scruff of the neck. You can mostly get away with this in our leagues, but in the conflict heavy games of - as just one example - Bulgarian football, many of our officials would sink verrryy badly because they'd have absolutely idea what to do, how to deal with such a game. Kavanagh's excruciatingly poor performance in the Real Madrid vs. Benfica Youth League final, case-in-point. In those leagues you need charisma, ability to spot (clear!!) SFPs/VCs, stronger foul recognition to even reach 2nd/3rd division, which I simply don't see in (too!) many of our officials.

Okay, you can say it is an issue of education/experience of such intensive games and so on, but: when you don't care about charisma on the pitch, when you don't really reward courageous decisions, have club marks even at PL level(!!!), have incredibly mediocre vetted 'match delegates' people, have the league essentially run the reffing with no independence, infuriate protesting players/managers who just want consistency/decent refs by saying a) at this level, you aren't just handling a game, you are managing an event s**t and b) 'we have the best referees in the world' (when even, as an example, Belarus has better refereeing than us IMO...), and prefer to focus on identity politics nonsense / trying to control the narrative through Gallagher, Dale Johnson et al rather than actually improve the refs(!!) -> this is the perfect environment to not only encourage, but actively reward pure mediocrity.

PGMOL institutionalises it! They are the enemies of good refereeing and our officiating will never improve whilst they are in existence.

Whilst I agree somewhat, and I agree with everything re the PGMOL, the obvious difference is that other leagues the referees body is SEPARATE from the league or is run by the national FA. In England the refereeing and PGMOL is paid for, led by and therefore determined by its owners which is the premier league, not a separate body like the FA.

Don't think that is technically correct.  My understanding is that PGMOL is under joint ownership and guidance / management of the EPL, EFL, and FA.

Still probably not right, and should be wholly under the FA, with competition paying to fund the match officials based on the level they operate at.