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Author Topic: Out of the archives  (Read 1048 times)

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dave26

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Re: Out of the archives
« Reply #15 on: Mon 13 Apr 2020 15:17 »
I wonder where contributors would place Graham Poll. In my view he could be in either group. The Beeb had the Arsenal v Man Utd game in 2005 on 'Their Match of the Day' last Saturday when Keene was engaged in a fracas in the tunnel before the teams had even emerged at the start of the game, and Silvestre was later sent off, and this was Poll at his best in my view, with authority stamped all over him. However Poll could also be maddingly controversial and I am not just talking about his 'three card' exit from the World Cup stage. Any thoughts?

I would also be split where to place Poll on his day one of the finest referees around but also courted plenty of controversy I thought when he first came into the PL scene and for the first few years I thought he was arrogant but as the years went on he firmly established himself and mellowed

ajb95

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Re: Out of the archives
« Reply #16 on: Mon 13 Apr 2020 18:27 »
I wonder where contributors would place Graham Poll. In my view he could be in either group. The Beeb had the Arsenal v Man Utd game in 2005 on 'Their Match of the Day' last Saturday when Keene was engaged in a fracas in the tunnel before the teams had even emerged at the start of the game, and Silvestre was later sent off, and this was Poll at his best in my view, with authority stamped all over him. However Poll could also be maddingly controversial and I am not just talking about his 'three card' exit from the World Cup stage. Any thoughts?

Thought Poll was a poor referee. Very authoritative so could keep control but when it came to key incidents I donít remember him getting many

Shy Talk

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Re: Out of the archives
« Reply #17 on: Sat 18 Apr 2020 12:25 »
Apologies if this is not suitable but out of the archives a couple of categories

Good solid referees

Gerald Ashby
Alan Wilkie
Jeff Winter
Steve Dunn
Dermot Gallagher
Gary Willard
Phil Dowd
Robbie Hart
Roger Dilkes
Keith Cooper
Keith Burge
Peter Jones
Paul Durkin
Martin Bodenham


A few refs who courted controversy

Mike Reed
Paul Danson
Paul Alcock
David Elleray
Mike Riley
Don't ever mention Gary Willard in Barnsley! He "refereed" our PL game against Liverpool in 1998 when he managed not only to reduce us to 8 men (whilst completely ignoring Liverpool's outrageous gamesmanship and wind-up tactics) but also at one point he lost the plot to the extent that he actually walked off the pitch during the game. No explanation, he simply left the players and his linesmen looking around in disbelief. Eventually he reappeared and carried on to finish the game, which despite the 3 man disadvantage ended in a creditable 3-2 defeat.

It later transpired that he had walked off in fear for his safety, but told no-one and effectively hung his linesmen (as I think they still were back then) out to dry. Barnsley at that time were of course fighting relegation but had been in good form and more than matched Liverpool on the day, deserving at least a point. The defeat and the circumstances seemed to knock the stuffing out of the whole club, and the team went down without winning another game.

If you ever want to wind up a Barnsley fan in conversation or on social media, just drop the magic words Gary Willard into the conversation!

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TheThingFromLewes

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Re: Out of the archives
« Reply #18 on: Sat 18 Apr 2020 17:48 »
Robert Styles.... always one match away from a disaster occurring....

Bakis

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Re: Out of the archives
« Reply #19 on: Sun 19 Apr 2020 10:00 »
I'd have thought anyone at any level is one match away from a disaster occurring, except for those for whom it's occurring in the here and now!

robbie_scouse

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Re: Out of the archives
« Reply #20 on: Sun 19 Apr 2020 10:37 »
Apologies if this is not suitable but out of the archives a couple of categories

Good solid referees

Gerald Ashby
Alan Wilkie
Jeff Winter
Steve Dunn
Dermot Gallagher
Gary Willard
Phil Dowd
Robbie Hart
Roger Dilkes
Keith Cooper
Keith Burge
Peter Jones
Paul Durkin
Martin Bodenham


A few refs who courted controversy

Mike Reed
Paul Danson
Paul Alcock
David Elleray
Mike Riley

I know this is all about opinions but surely you've inadvertenly put the horrendous Jeff Winter in the wrong category here?  He always gave me the impression it was about him and, post-refereeing career, he hasn't changed!

Off the top of my head, I would have Alan Wiley as a shoe-in for one of the best and most consistent referees.  I thought Uriah Rennie started out decent enough but then really dropped off. 

Elleray seemed to suffer from not going full-time.  From being regularly appointed to the League's top matches, he seemed to end his career (from my memory) of refereeing fairly run-of-the-mill matches, with the exception of a Manchester derby towards the very end where he sent Roy Keane off for the umpteenth time (quite rightfully I might add - his 'revenge tackle' on Haaland).

dave26

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Re: Out of the archives
« Reply #21 on: Sun 19 Apr 2020 15:09 »
The one thing I like is the opinions and reasons behind them I do sincerely apologise to Shy Talk and any other Barnsley fans that match in question is not in my memory bank but I always rated Willard

As for Wiley yes he would be up there amongst the best wasnít afraid to give the big decisions and a good man manager but Iím trying to go back mostly as far as I can remember to mid /late 90ís and early 2000ís


Shy Talk

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Re: Out of the archives
« Reply #22 on: Mon 20 Apr 2020 17:35 »
The one thing I like is the opinions and reasons behind them I do sincerely apologise to Shy Talk and any other Barnsley fans that match in question is not in my memory bank but I always rated Willard

As for Wiley yes he would be up there amongst the best wasnít afraid to give the big decisions and a good man manager but Iím trying to go back mostly as far as I can remember to mid /late 90ís and early 2000ís

I fully accept from his career stats that Mr Willard had a good career as a referee; I however can only judge him on the 2 occasions I saw him live. The first was about 3 months earlier than the Liverpool debacle mentioned above, when he refereed the Premiership local derby between Sheffield Wednesday and my team Barnsley (again!) one  evening just before Christmas 1997.

However on this occasion also I have to use the term refereed loosely, as all the major decisions in the match were actually made by Paolo di Canio. When he wasn't niggling and/or fouling he spent the evening on Willard's shoulder giving him the benefit of his advice, which the "referee" almost invariably took, or berating the linesmen with complete impunity. At one point he indulged himself with a long rant right in the linesman's face, ending with a you need binoculars gesture, without any retribution.

And of course, in stoppage time and with Barnsley 1-0 up and cruising to a comfortable win, up pops the pseudo ref with an equaliser when he should have been having a nice long soak in the bath. I don't know what it is about Barnsley, but we certainly brought out the worst in Mr Willard.

robbie_scouse

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Re: Out of the archives
« Reply #23 on: Mon 20 Apr 2020 19:43 »
As for Wiley yes he would be up there amongst the best wasnít afraid to give the big decisions and a good man manager but Iím trying to go back mostly as far as I can remember to mid /late 90ís and early 2000ís
Yeah I assumed that from looking at the names but, with Dowd in there, I wondered as Iím pretty sure Wiley was in PL before Dowd?

RCG

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Re: Out of the archives
« Reply #24 on: Sat 09 May 2020 19:37 »
Watching World Cup rewind today brought back some great memories. Seeing a referee send his assistant to the goal line and cover offside himself at a free kick (and the subsequent scramble of the assistant getting back in position)
2 great decisions by Darren Cann (pre goal line and VAR tech) one on goal/no goal and a very tight offside.
And good ol' John 'Jack' Taylor in his moment of glory. V enjoyable

Wollongong Ref

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Re: Out of the archives
« Reply #25 on: Mon 11 May 2020 05:41 »
Interesting to see Uriah Rennie mentioned. I concur with my learned colleague. He was outstanding when he started on the Premier League but fell away. i do not know if you remember but he used 'alternate' Lineman/assistant referee running pattern. When he got his FIFA badge he had a year away from the Premier League and when he came back he used the traditional running pattern that is now universal. After that Uriah was never the same in my humble opinion as he had to now concentrate too much on his running and positioning and this often saw him in the wrong position.

Leggy

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Re: Out of the archives
« Reply #26 on: Mon 11 May 2020 07:23 »
Agree.  Although I did not get within a million miles of international football, I used to use Linesman / Assistants in that way.  "Left wings first half, right wings second - straight across the park at half-time."  By logic (such as it was) was that the Linesmen / Assistants experienced both back-lines and both sides of the Field of Play during the game.  It had the added benefit of confusing the heck out of some players.  The only time I did not do this was with a very "green" Linesman / Assistant who - in my view - needed to be shielded from the helpful comments coming from the dug-outs.  It worked for me, but it does seem odd seeing the "wrong" diagonal being run today, such is the uniform approach these days.

RCG

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Re: Out of the archives
« Reply #27 on: Mon 11 May 2020 07:44 »
Always a groundskeepers friend if you could run left wings. I actually found it more comfortable, although had to revert to type to make any progression. I always felt swapping from one to the other during a game put pressure on the Assistants. Last guy I saw do rights/lefts in a match at a decent level was Eddie Evans

Left Field

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Re: Out of the archives
« Reply #28 on: Mon 11 May 2020 18:59 »
Always a groundskeepers friend if you could run left wings. I actually found it more comfortable, although had to revert to type to make any progression. I always felt swapping from one to the other during a game put pressure on the Assistants. Last guy I saw do rights/lefts in a match at a decent level was Eddie Evans

I have seen this reference from various people to the referee running "left wings" in this instance where the linesmen / assistants are tracking the right-backs (or left-wingers) if you prefer. While I can see how we might say the assistant "was running left-wings" surely the referee is in effect running right-wings, i.e. from the right-wing to right-wing in each half? To avoid this ambiguity (in my mind) I always prefer to refer to who the assistant is tracking, i.e. right-back or (these days) left-back.