RateTheRef

And as I recall, that explanation, if true, was rightly mocked on MOTD.

Quote from: Acme Thunderer on Mon 20 Dec 2021 14:43

A Newcastle penalty all day long. I suspect that Atko may have been take by surprise by Ederson's actions in rushing out of his goal and taking out Fraser, particularly as Cancelo had come across to clear. If this was the case, then VAR Pawson should have intervened to get MA to the monitor for a review.

On MOTD last night they said they were told by the PGMOL that it wasn't a penalty because Cancelo had already cleared the ball (and the foul on Fraser had no impact on the clearance)!

The PGMOL really don't help themselves.  Just tell it as it is - ref and VAR called that one wrong, it happens.

Everyone would respect that far more than their how can we waffle our way out of this one & pretend it wasn't an error.  They make themselves look like idiots and the subsequent negativity towards the match officials increases because of it. Just be honest, accept they have made a mistake, they're mere human beings, it's going to happen sometimes, that's life & football.

Quote from: bruntyboy on Mon 20 Dec 2021 14:52

Quote from: Acme Thunderer on Mon 20 Dec 2021 14:43

A Newcastle penalty all day long. I suspect that Atko may have been take by surprise by Ederson's actions in rushing out of his goal and taking out Fraser, particularly as Cancelo had come across to clear. If this was the case, then VAR Pawson should have intervened to get MA to the monitor for a review.

On MOTD last night they said they were told by the PGMOL that it wasn't a penalty because Cancelo had already cleared the ball (and the foul on Fraser had no impact on the clearance)!

The PGMOL really don't help themselves.  Just tell it as it is - ref and VAR called that one wrong, it happens.

Everyone would respect that far more than their how can we waffle our way out of this one & pretend it wasn't an error.  They make themselves look like idiots and the subsequent negativity towards the match officials increases because of it. Just be honest, accept they have made a mistake, they're mere human beings, it's going to happen sometimes, that's life & football.

It does indeed happen and frankly it is happening far too often.

The process whereby these referees take it turns to VAR for each other is clearly not working. Set up a dedicated team of VAR experts to do the job; we don't need a body of referees collectively marking their own homework.

As a City fan I have to say penalty every day. City were 2-0 up at the time and so much in control that it most probably wouldn’t have made any difference to the final score but Newcastle should have been awarded a penalty unquestionably.

Possibly not but 1-2 with the crowd urging them on potentially makes it a totally different game. Especially if the next goal then goes to Newcastle.

I watched whilst facetiming with my sister and daughter and my immediate response was "That should have been a penalty", and I am surprised that it wasn't referred back for an on field review on the monitor.  There are one or two questions in my mind however, which perhaps someone can answer for me.  In these circumstances how do we decide whether the goalkeeper has fouled the forward or whether the forward has fouled the goalkeeper.  If Cancelo hadn't been involved at all it would have been relatively straightforward - assuming there had been no unreasonable action by either party, whoever played the ball first would claim priority.  So, had Ederson caught or parried the ball away it would have been Fraser's responsibility to avoid a collision; if Fraser had reached the ball first it would have been Ederson's responsibility to avoid the collision.  In this case it seems both players were intent on getting to the ball first and their combined momentum meant that there was a collision.  Do we judge Ederson's approach to be unreasonably energetic?  Do we guess who would have reached the ball first had Cancelo not intervened?  Also supposing Cancello had simply allowed the ball to run through to Ederson and then held his ground so Fraser collided with him (and quite likely Ederson, with ball, then collided with both of them) what would have been the decision?

Quote from: nemesis on Mon 20 Dec 2021 18:47

Quote from: bmb on Mon 20 Dec 2021 17:03

Quote from: bruntyboy on Mon 20 Dec 2021 14:52

Quote from: Acme Thunderer on Mon 20 Dec 2021 14:43

A Newcastle penalty all day long. I suspect that Atko may have been take by surprise by Ederson's actions in rushing out of his goal and taking out Fraser, particularly as Cancelo had come across to clear. If this was the case, then VAR Pawson should have intervened to get MA to the monitor for a review.

On MOTD last night they said they were told by the PGMOL that it wasn't a penalty because Cancelo had already cleared the ball (and the foul on Fraser had no impact on the clearance)!

The PGMOL really don't help themselves.  Just tell it as it is - ref and VAR called that one wrong, it happens.

Everyone would respect that far more than their how can we waffle our way out of this one & pretend it wasn't an error.  They make themselves look like idiots and the subsequent negativity towards the match officials increases because of it. Just be honest, accept they have made a mistake, they're mere human beings, it's going to happen sometimes, that's life & football.

It does indeed happen and frankly it is happening far too often.

The process whereby these referees take it turns to VAR for each other is clearly not working. Set up a dedicated team of VAR experts to do the job; we don't need a body of referees collectively marking their own homework.

One of the most intriguing aspects of this site is the wonder of who are referees, and who are fans of the game. I presume you are in the latter camp. Of course your opinion is welcomed, but not being a referee, you are not going to familiar with aspects of the game.

For starters, no referee wants to be a VAR. Secondly, it’s a highly skilled position and that’s why they use elite officials and don’t simply fulfil appointments with lower category referees.

To note, 4th officials are often from a lower category as it’s a useful stepping stone and allowing for access and familiarity, before (hopefully) those officials are ready for the higher level. Notably, VAR is not that.

VAR is not ‘marking homework’. They are an integral member of the team, and (as is quite apparent) as capable of mistakes as any of the on-field officials.

The current problem with VAR is a process issue, and not a training issue.

I think nemesis has been posting on here long enough and has a level of knowledge and insight that probably deserves a more respectful opening gambit.

Quote from: TVOS on Tue 21 Dec 2021 20:22

Quote from: Affy_Moose on Tue 21 Dec 2021 19:30

Quote from: nemesis on Mon 20 Dec 2021 18:47

Quote from: bmb on Mon 20 Dec 2021 17:03

Quote from: bruntyboy on Mon 20 Dec 2021 14:52

Quote from: Acme Thunderer on Mon 20 Dec 2021 14:43

A Newcastle penalty all day long. I suspect that Atko may have been take by surprise by Ederson's actions in rushing out of his goal and taking out Fraser, particularly as Cancelo had come across to clear. If this was the case, then VAR Pawson should have intervened to get MA to the monitor for a review.

On MOTD last night they said they were told by the PGMOL that it wasn't a penalty because Cancelo had already cleared the ball (and the foul on Fraser had no impact on the clearance)!

The PGMOL really don't help themselves.  Just tell it as it is - ref and VAR called that one wrong, it happens.

Everyone would respect that far more than their how can we waffle our way out of this one & pretend it wasn't an error.  They make themselves look like idiots and the subsequent negativity towards the match officials increases because of it. Just be honest, accept they have made a mistake, they're mere human beings, it's going to happen sometimes, that's life & football.

It does indeed happen and frankly it is happening far too often.

The process whereby these referees take it turns to VAR for each other is clearly not working. Set up a dedicated team of VAR experts to do the job; we don't need a body of referees collectively marking their own homework.

One of the most intriguing aspects of this site is the wonder of who are referees, and who are fans of the game. I presume you are in the latter camp. Of course your opinion is welcomed, but not being a referee, you are not going to familiar with aspects of the game.

For starters, no referee wants to be a VAR. Secondly, it’s a highly skilled position and that’s why they use elite officials and don’t simply fulfil appointments with lower category referees.

To note, 4th officials are often from a lower category as it’s a useful stepping stone and allowing for access and familiarity, before (hopefully) those officials are ready for the higher level. Notably, VAR is not that.

VAR is not ‘marking homework’. They are an integral member of the team, and (as is quite apparent) as capable of mistakes as any of the on-field officials.

The current problem with VAR is a process issue, and not a training issue.

I think nemesis has been posting on here long enough and has a level of knowledge and insight that probably deserves a more respectful opening gambit.

Indeed… nemesis is one of the stalwarts on this site, and he’s been observing officials for many a year.

Including way back on the older sites as well.

Quote from: Affy_Moose on Tue 21 Dec 2021 19:30

Quote from: nemesis on Mon 20 Dec 2021 18:47

Quote from: bmb on Mon 20 Dec 2021 17:03

Quote from: bruntyboy on Mon 20 Dec 2021 14:52

Quote from: Acme Thunderer on Mon 20 Dec 2021 14:43

A Newcastle penalty all day long. I suspect that Atko may have been take by surprise by Ederson's actions in rushing out of his goal and taking out Fraser, particularly as Cancelo had come across to clear. If this was the case, then VAR Pawson should have intervened to get MA to the monitor for a review.

On MOTD last night they said they were told by the PGMOL that it wasn't a penalty because Cancelo had already cleared the ball (and the foul on Fraser had no impact on the clearance)!

The PGMOL really don't help themselves.  Just tell it as it is - ref and VAR called that one wrong, it happens.

Everyone would respect that far more than their how can we waffle our way out of this one & pretend it wasn't an error.  They make themselves look like idiots and the subsequent negativity towards the match officials increases because of it. Just be honest, accept they have made a mistake, they're mere human beings, it's going to happen sometimes, that's life & football.

It does indeed happen and frankly it is happening far too often.

The process whereby these referees take it turns to VAR for each other is clearly not working. Set up a dedicated team of VAR experts to do the job; we don't need a body of referees collectively marking their own homework.

One of the most intriguing aspects of this site is the wonder of who are referees, and who are fans of the game. I presume you are in the latter camp. Of course your opinion is welcomed, but not being a referee, you are not going to familiar with aspects of the game.

For starters, no referee wants to be a VAR. Secondly, it’s a highly skilled position and that’s why they use elite officials and don’t simply fulfil appointments with lower category referees.

To note, 4th officials are often from a lower category as it’s a useful stepping stone and allowing for access and familiarity, before (hopefully) those officials are ready for the higher level. Notably, VAR is not that.

VAR is not ‘marking homework’. They are an integral member of the team, and (as is quite apparent) as capable of mistakes as any of the on-field officials.

The current problem with VAR is a process issue, and not a training issue.

I think nemesis has been posting on here long enough and has a level of knowledge and insight that probably deserves a more respectful opening gambit.

It wasn't meant to sound disrespectful, but I appreciate that's how it may have come across, so I'm sorry for that.

When using the term "these referees", that reads like an out-group looking in.  Otherwise, my other points are factual and provide better context.

No referee wants to be a VAR, so it's a non-starter.  Also, being 'marked' (as it were) by people who don't understand the game is never going to work.